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Old 15th August 2012, 16:08   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow

For arguments sake let me try to see which Indian sedan is a 'corner carver'
Desire, SX4.. haha.. Surely not. Verna? if it keeps straight line at 80kmph on a bumpy road I would thank my lucky stars. Feista? The old one, yes, the new one? just maybe. Linea? ok, but definitely not over 100kmph. Honda City? the fish shape? lol. The ANHC? maybe....

D segment upwards? Most of the sedans are decent in terms of performance.

So me thinks, if you do not buy a D+ segment sedan, and try to corner carve in a lower spec, most of the corners would be cement scraping off the retaining walls
Conveiniently forgot Vento/Rapid/Cedia/ANHC did we ?
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Old 15th August 2012, 17:36   #437
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
I find comments like this quite amusing. If i were to think on these lines, my retort would be, why swerve? In all likelihood the SUV will just go over the dog with its massive GC.
Try that with something bigger. Say a pig for an example. It can't always be a d0g? Wot?

I myself find many amusing comments from SUV owners. But refrain myself from commenting. Hence won't get into details.

Quote:
driving pleassure is not about taking sweepers at 140 kph only. Ask an offroader who crawls over a rock or down a slushy hillside at 10 KPH, with a wide grin plastered on his face!
We are not even talking about off the road excursions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel
I own a sedan and two SUVs, and 9 times out of 10, i take my SUVs for any kind of travel that I do.
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At the end, I think SUV drivers are pretty happy with their choices, so let them be that.
Reason I commented this. To each his own.

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Old 15th August 2012, 18:05   #438
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Totally ill-informed post trying to be funny!

To make it easy for you to understand, its between a high GC vehicle vs low GC vehicle. Sedans/Hatchbacks with lower GC will be able to maintain the change of CoG better than the SUVs. Its physics! and the Sedans/Hatchbacks are corner cravers compared to SUVs.

Even otherwise, the Old Fiesta 1.6S set the benchmark time on the Chennai race track. The Linea T-Jet went faster when it was launched, then the New Fiesta did beat the T-Jet's time with a rather lower spec engine compared to the 1.6 Duratec in the old Fiesta. The Cedia has been a different beast on the track and was always in the mix!

May be you should try one of these cars at over 100KMPH on the race track just to get your perceptions off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
For arguments sake let me try to see which Indian sedan is a 'corner carver'
Desire, SX4.. haha.. Surely not. Verna? if it keeps straight line at 80kmph on a bumpy road I would thank my lucky stars. Feista? The old one, yes, the new one? just maybe. Linea? ok, but definitely not over 100kmph. Honda City? the fish shape? lol. The ANHC? maybe....

D segment upwards? Most of the sedans are decent in terms of performance.

So me thinks, if you do not buy a D+ segment sedan, and try to corner carve in a lower spec, most of the corners would be cement scraping off the retaining walls
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Old 15th August 2012, 19:36   #439
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

I still wonder - do sedan lovers have anything else to crib about, except the SUV's cornering ability?

Heck, for the past few pages, I can only read body roll, corners at high speeds, centre of gravity... Ok, we understood that. Now anything else please???

Last edited by raj_5004 : 15th August 2012 at 19:38.
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Old 15th August 2012, 22:58   #440
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
I still wonder - do sedan lovers have anything else to crib about, except the SUV's cornering ability?

Heck, for the past few pages, I can only read body roll, corners at high speeds, centre of gravity... Ok, we understood that. Now anything else please???
Err, maybe you didn't read the opening post. Anyways, for better readability, here it is.

Its about both. Take your pick. To agree or not, is your perspective & the way you see things. The jury for majority is out.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'm seeing a large number of queries in our "What car?" sub-forum inquiring about SUVs. The justification usually given is highway driving. BAAH, I say. Nope, I don't buy that reasoning at all. Sedans are faster, efficient and immensely more satisfying to drive, especially on the highway.

An SUV is a special category of vehicle with its own list of pros & cons. The starting range of SUVs in India (i.e. Safari & Scorpio) cost about Rs. 10 lakh for the middle variants....money which could also buy you a higher end C segment sedan. Lets outline the upside & downside to either.

Advantage SEDAN:
  • Lets get one thing straight : A sedan is infinitely more pleasurable to drive. Whether its a straight expressway, especially on a typically Indian highway and even more so on a fast ghat section. The sheer handling & dynamics of a sedan are simply unmatched by SUVs. Take a Linea T-Jet out cornering, then attempt the same in a Scorpio or even a 20 lakh Fortuner and you'll know what I'm talking about. Thanks to their massive body roll, an SUV is hardly a vehicle you'd equate with the fun-to-drive factor. Most 100+ BHP sedans, due to lower center of gravity & higher power-to-weight ratios, remain an absolute blast to drive.
  • Performance : Again, thanks to their lighter weight and superior aerodynamics, a sedan's acceleration will leave an SUV for dead. A Honda City will do the 0 - 100 in 10 seconds, a Vento diesel in 11 seconds. The average time for SUVs in the same price bracket is 15 seconds (similar to 5 lakh rupee hatchbacks BTW). A sedan's braking ability is also superior to same-price SUVs.
  • Fuel efficiency : A sedan will be inherently more fuel efficient. If we are to compare the FE figures of C segment diesel sedans to the 10 lakh rupee diesel SUVs, the average sedan is about 30 - 40% more fuel efficient. In case of petrol to petrol comparisons, the difference can be as much as 75% in favour of sedans.
  • Ride comfort : The Safari's ride quality is an exception. Most other SUVs - from the Scorpio to the Endeavour to the Fortuner - suffer from bumpy ride quality. You can forget about the composed ride (city & highway) that most C & C+ sedans have to offer.
  • Depth of engineering : For the same money that you'd pay for an SUV, you can buy a sedan that's a lot more technologically advanced. Compare the VW Vento to a Tata Safari, a Skoda Laura to an Endeavour or a VW Passat to a Toyota Fortuner.
  • Cheaper : SUVs cost more to build and are thus, more expensive to buy as well.
  • Easier to maneuver : A sedan's smaller dimensions make it easier to drive within the city, be it traffic or squeezing into that tight parking spot. The controls (steering, gearshift, pedals) generally require lesser effort as well.
  • Parking : If you don't have a wide & tall parking spot, you can forget about SUVs.
  • Petrol : Not everyone likes diesels. A few of us remain diehard fans of high-revving petrols. Thanks to the poor fuel efficiency of petrol SUVs, they remain a dying breed in India.
  • A wider palette : Whether you want to spend 10 lakh rupees or 20, you'll have a far wider choice of sedans than SUVs in your budget.
Advantage SUV:
  • Space : SUVs, thanks to their greater proportions, generally have spacious interiors as well. Plus, the third row of seats can have you carrying more than 5 passengers (impossible with any sedan).
  • Ability to handle rough roads better : If your driving entails completely destroyed roads, the underpinnings of an SUV along with its higher ground clearance will make it the more suitable class of vehicle.
  • 4x4 available as an option. A 4x4 SUV will drive through farms, muck, slush and rocks. Your lifestyle, work or daily driving pattern may include either of these conditions and thus, necessitate an SUV.
  • High perched driving position : Undoubtedly gives you a superior view of the road ahead. In addition, you can look over the car in front of you, allowing you to take a more informed decision (e.g. when overtaking).
  • Muscle : Needless to say, errant auto rickshaws & taxi drivers don't mess with a butch SUV as much as they do with a shiny sedan.
  • Can seriously haul : SUVs have larger cargo capacities. Folding down or removing their rear seats gives enough capacity to move home. Dream on, sedans.
  • Image : Who doesn't want to look cool? A macho SUV can give your social standing a massive boost.
Which is safer?

Well, the debates wide open on this factor. A sedan's superior handling & braking capabilities will help you avoid that accident in the first place. Plus, SUVs are prone to roll over too. On the other hand, you can't argue with sheer size & metal. In a head on collision between a Captiva & a Cruze, or a Safari and an Indigo, I do feel occupants of the former will suffer less injury.

The best of both worlds:

Crossovers are based on sedans, yet styled as SUVs. Cars like the Yeti / CRV / Outlander are nearly as much fun to drive as their sedan siblings and bring some SUV advantages too. However, in many areas, they are neither "here" nor "there". For instance, these crossovers lack the sheer ruggedness & offroad ability of SUVs. Neither can they seat anymore than 5 passengers (just as sedans). Plus, due to their weight, they aren't as quick or efficient as sedans. It doesn't help that they cost more than their sedan siblings either. Most people buy the premium crossovers for image rather than anything else.

SUMMARY

In a nutshell, buy an SUV only if you need the three rows of seats, rough road package or AWD. But for all things else, there is no substitute for the driving pleasure that a powerful sedan or hatchback can give you.
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Old 15th August 2012, 22:59   #441
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There is more, what's the carbon footprint left by the SUVs compared to the sedans/hatches dude! :-D

The best FE I have got from the XUV is 12, compare that to the 18 I get in my Figo after having all the cornering fun!


Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004
I still wonder - do sedan lovers have anything else to crib about, except the SUV's cornering ability?

Heck, for the past few pages, I can only read body roll, corners at high speeds, centre of gravity... Ok, we understood that. Now anything else please???
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Old 16th August 2012, 10:37   #442
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Err, maybe you didn't read the opening post. Anyways, for better readability, here it is.

Its about both. Take your pick. To agree or not, is your perspective & the way you see things. The jury for majority is out.

Thanks
I am not talking about GTO's post. I am talking about the numerous posts in the last few pages which have been talking only and only about the SUV's handling. I have mentioned that in my post as can be seen below -

Quote:

Heck, for the past few pages
, I can only read body roll...........
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
There is more, what's the carbon footprint left by the SUVs compared to the sedans/hatches dude! :-D

The best FE I have got from the XUV is 12, compare that to the 18 I get in my Figo after having all the cornering fun!
WOW! So now you are comparing a 16 Lac 140 bhp SUV to a 5 Lac 68 bhp hatchback. Cmon, now that's more than double the power man.

Well, then let me compare the FE of the XUV to the Laura VRS or the Accord 3.0 or even the W12 Audi A8 for that matter!

Be fair please. If you want to compare, compare the FE of your Figo with 65 bhp MDi engine of the Bolero. I know it wont fetch 18 but it is known to give 14-16 kmpl easily in normal traffic.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 16th August 2012 at 10:41.
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Old 16th August 2012, 11:52   #443
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

^^In the end, it all comes to personal preferences right? For some driving pleasure is derived from the sense of space, high-visibility etc., whereas for others it could be the low seating position, road-hugging capabilities, ride and handling etc.

I personally don’t like the idea of having an SUV for its road-bullying capabilities or own-the-road feeling. If you are someone who often deviates from the regular tarmac, or always drives around with more than 5 people / luggage it’s ideal to go for an SUV. Or else, a nice sedan or a nifty cross-over will suffice.

Comparing on a closer price point, if I have a quarter of a million rupees to spend, I would prefer to go with a Jetta Highline or Laura L&K rather than a Fortuner/Endeavour. My preferences may change tomorrow, depending on the needs

Last edited by vb-san : 16th August 2012 at 11:54.
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Old 16th August 2012, 11:59   #444
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
^^In the end, it all comes to personal preferences right? For some driving pleasure is derived from the sense of space, high-visibility etc., whereas for others it could be the low seating position, road-hugging capabilities, ride and handling etc.
+1000.

And I will never deny that. And this is what I have mentioned in some earlier posts as well.

But then some members were hell bent on proving that SUVs are useless, which I dont really agree. (No pinpointing please!)

I do believe that both has it's pros and cons and ultimately its a matter of priorities. So no point in ranting that SUV owners bully everyone or that SUVs cant drive at 100 in a corner. Because then SUV lovers will have a lot to say as well...

Last edited by raj_5004 : 16th August 2012 at 12:01.
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Old 16th August 2012, 12:24   #445
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
WOW! So now you are comparing a 16 Lac 140 bhp SUV to a 5 Lac 68 bhp hatchback. Cmon, now that's more than double the power man.

Well, then let me compare the FE of the XUV to the Laura VRS or the Accord 3.0 or even the W12 Audi A8 for that matter!

Be fair please. If you want to compare, compare the FE of your Figo with 65 bhp MDi engine of the Bolero. I know it wont fetch 18 but it is known to give 14-16 kmpl easily in normal traffic.
Let me try to be fair here dude, recently we did a trip from Chennai to Munnar and back! A total of 15 members and 3 cars, Innova, Jetta & a humble Fiesta Classic. On the whole trip, the Jetta averaged 15KMPL with the Fiesta matching the Jetta as they were trying to match the speeds of the Jetta and finally the Innova with an average of 11KMPL.

I did a trip from Chennai-Tirunelveli-Thiruvalla-Tirunelveli-Chennai in the XUV which did the best of 12 with over 90% of the route being 4-Laned and perfect roads. The Munnar trip had more hill driving to do and the Jetta with the 2.0TDI did much better compared to the XUV. I am sure this is a fair comparison!

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-imgp4062.jpg
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Old 16th August 2012, 15:19   #446
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

How would a cross-over like duster or ecosport fare in comparison to a sedan?
There is not much discussion regarding the same. Any inputs, GTO?
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Old 17th August 2012, 10:34   #447
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Let me try to be fair here dude, recently we did a trip from Chennai to Munnar and back! A total of 15 members and 3 cars, Innova, Jetta & a humble Fiesta Classic
If you had one more Innova or any SUV/MUV, you could have left the humble Fiesta back! (2 Innovas = 8+8 = 16 seats)

So no need of 3 cars for the trip... which in turn means lesser carbon footprint, isnt it?
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Old 17th August 2012, 10:48   #448
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
If you had one more Innova or any SUV/MUV, you could have left the humble Fiesta back! (2 Innovas = 8+8 = 16 seats)

So no need of 3 cars for the trip... which in turn means lesser carbon footprint, isnt it?
I wish we had that luxury, the initial plan was for 3 Fiestas & 1 Jetta for the trip but then we took the Innova due to lack of drivers. Still, it was only that trip! And all the luggage of the Innova passengers were stuffed into the sedans.

Comparing the Jetta Vs Innova Vs XUV from my experience, Jetta was more fun to drive with good dynamics, spacious for 5 passengers, space for luggage, handled like a dream while on 3 digit speeds that can only be dreamed by the SUVs to handle and also offering good economy while the Innova & XUV have struggled to match in all parameters.
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Old 17th August 2012, 11:12   #449
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by anurag.somani View Post
How would a cross-over like duster or ecosport fare in comparison to a sedan?
There is not much discussion regarding the same. Any inputs, GTO?
Depending on whom you are talking to, there are 2 schools of thought:
  • Cross overs are the worst of both the words, they are neither here not there
  • Crossovers are the best compromise and bring the traits of both SUVs and Sedans (it would be wrong to say they bring the best of both worlds)
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Old 17th August 2012, 11:57   #450
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by anurag.somani View Post
How would a cross-over like duster or ecosport fare in comparison to a sedan?
There is not much discussion regarding the same. Any inputs, GTO?
I was also thinking about this. This thread was started in 2010 when there weren't any crossovers/MUVs available in India, but now we have the duster and Ertiga with a lot more launching in the next few months. How do they change the equation?

They're fuel efficient, have lesser body roll and look butch (well, not the ertiga, but you get the drift).
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