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Old 18th September 2012, 10:22   #466
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

What I meant in my above post is that I feel relatively safer and relaxed in a SUV compared to that in a smaller vehicle.
When I drive my Maruti I did notice that in spite of regular honking the cabs like Indigos or boleros don't make way at times while its relatively easier when you drive a Scorpio. Even in single lane roads the upcoming vehicles treat you with more respect and provide the necessary space required. Same is with Autowalas in city traffic, they keep distance from SUVs.

I no way meant SUVs to driven irresponsibly.
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Old 18th September 2012, 10:29   #467
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan
We have yet to learn "responsibility" by and large and this will only come with true education, good manners and the development of a "caring" society - and this, I may say, will only happen once we move away from being the "me-first", blindly acquisitive, greedy, plundering creatures that we have become!
Completely agree with these views. It amazes me how even highly educated people become victim of this me-first attitude and cause ruckus in traffic. Surprisingly these are the same set of people who are extremely professional, courteous and friendly inside the house or office premises. Somehow once they hit the road something takes over
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Old 18th September 2012, 11:06   #468
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by suchit23 View Post
Completely agree with these views. It amazes me how even highly educated people become victim of this me-first attitude and cause ruckus in traffic. Surprisingly these are the same set of people who are extremely professional, courteous and friendly inside the house or office premises. Somehow once they hit the road something takes over
Why should educated, middleclass, working person be the meek one everytime? Why is this particular class expected to hold India's manners, values and morals? The poor can roam without clothes if they please, the politically connected and super rich have no rules applicable.

I have a theory on the aggression on the roads. Where else will the common educated man vent out? In office? surely not. Against corruption or political interference? I am sure he/she cant. So where else will this aggression steam out? Do we have sporting arenas, parks, enough play areas to vent out aggression through sports?
Pressure at work, pressure at home, high inflation, balancing and juggling money everywhere, no rest/recreation areas or time, there is somewhere his/her pent up frustration will vent out, unfortunately due to poor fines, corrupt police and lax rule enforcement, the venting is all over the streets.

Please note: I am not justifying any of the bullying/bad behavior seen on our streets. When I sat down and tried to reach a root cause, I thought about this.
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Old 18th September 2012, 11:28   #469
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Depends on how folks think about a situation.

Its entirely upto them as to how they choose to unwind. They can pursue their favorite hobby, hang around with friends, sit down with parents/children/family to have a chit-chat & relax. Various other measures as well, rapidly varies from person to person.

OR

Vent it out on the road.
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Old 18th September 2012, 11:52   #470
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Recently i saw Duster for the first time in flesh. It looks cool and main thing is it looks like proper SUV and not UV or MUV like Bolero, Sumo, Ertiga etc. I really loved the looks of the car. If i am in market to buy car worth 10 Lacs approximately, i will definitely go for Duster over some of the sedans like Verna, Honda City etc. It will give me extra space, better ground clearance, looks etc.

Our market needs more SUV's like this. Ecosport is also going to be one to watch out for. Hope it will be priced correctly this time. When we will get such proper SUV from Indian manufacturer like Tata, Mahindra or Maruti? Are they listening?

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Old 18th September 2012, 12:06   #471
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

I have a different take on this. It is not SUV. It is not size. It is 'power'. I see the same kind of bullying happens from a person driving a 'powerful' vehicle like sedans of Audis, BMWs. Flashing their high intensity head lamps and bullying the vehicle to move to another lane.
I also see this 'power' being shown off in lowly (in terms of BHP) powered Indigos or Mahindra Touristers but highly powered with ruling party flags. You will be surprised at their 'bullying'.
I choose an SUV (Duster) because of the values I consider important - Space, GC, Ride and Diesel (for economy) and lastly the wagon form factor. I still have preference for wagons (SUVs are also Wagons)
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Old 18th September 2012, 13:28   #472
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post
What I meant in my above post is that I feel relatively safer and relaxed in a SUV compared to that in a smaller vehicle.
When I drive my Maruti I did notice that in spite of regular honking the cabs like Indigos or boleros don't make way at times while its relatively easier when you drive a Scorpio. Even in single lane roads the upcoming vehicles treat you with more respect and provide the necessary space required. Same is with Autowalas in city traffic, they keep distance from SUVs.
+1 to that, the SUV's are comfortable too specially in the Indian roads which is on an average considered to be bad with lots of broken roads and potholes.

But I don't think the road presence of the SUV's or the respect the SUV's command on the Indian roads have anything to do with their sheer size. It is the fear of the power inside the vehicle for which people don't want to mess with these beasts. There may be a police officer or a neta or a rich businessman or any of his/her relatives who is sitting inside the vehicle that gives these SUV's the status that the command. General public and also the notorious autowallahs don't want to mess up with any of these people, who generally have high connections in the society, and spoil their day.
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Old 18th September 2012, 14:41   #473
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Smile Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
+1 to that, the SUV's are comfortable too specially in the Indian roads which is on an average considered to be bad with lots of broken roads and potholes.

But I don't think the road presence of the SUV's or the respect the SUV's command on the Indian roads have anything to do with their sheer size. It is the fear of the power inside the vehicle for which people don't want to mess with these beasts. There may be a police officer or a neta or a rich businessman or any of his/her relatives who is sitting inside the vehicle that gives these SUV's the status that the command. General public and also the notorious autowallahs don't want to mess up with any of these people, who generally have high connections in the society, and spoil their day.
For the same reason there is a large number of 'ordinary' people who buy these cars. Thus, there is a very high chance that when you see a Scorpio, it is not a VVIP types sitting inside. Those guys have now moved on to Audis and BMWs

Personally I am always concerned that Bolero and Scorpios are driven rashly due to the occupant's perception of safety. Secondly, in a collision between 2 vehicles it is the lighter one that will suffer more (myth or reality?).
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Old 18th September 2012, 15:08   #474
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
This, if you will forgive my bluntness, is the typical statement made by a consumer who is in the "yet-to-evolve" stage.
wow! the generalisation made is astounding. The man just made a statement saying driving an SUV takes him to a better psychological state, because people make way, for the big vehicle. Where is the question of evolving.

I make way for a bus, truck, or SUV or any big vehicle which shows in my mirror much faster than I would for a smaller vehicle - reason is that any collision with a big vehicle will damage my car more, so get out of the way as soon as I can. It is my own concern, nothing to do with the big vehicle or its driver; I would make way for fast moving small vehicle as well, but the danger to my car is lesser, so I am more relaxed. So then in the process if the big vehicle's driver feels better about himself, then good for him. I can't judge him for his vehicle, he pays road tax as much as I do.
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Old 18th September 2012, 18:32   #475
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You know, there are so many points if view in this thread. All of them are valid in some way or another.

End of the day, speaking for myself, all I want really is a peaceful stress free commute, a reasonable amount of decency and good manners on the roads, adherence to road rules and lane discipline and a caring attitude to elderly people, children and animals.

I want to get to my office in peace so that I can take smart and lucrative business decisions for my company and I want to get home to my family in peace so that we dont reach as shattered wrecks! Is this too much to ask?I dont think so.
Is this likely to be a reality? Yes and No, depending on one's attitude and overall resilience and EQ.

Is an SUV going to contribute positively to the above vis a vis a smaller hatch or even a bicycle? Again yes and no, depending on one's state of evolution in life, in the brain space and in the world.
Basically it is a state of mind and I guess will come to most of us over time and with greater enlightenment or wisdom, if you will.

With reference to what a person may want, vis a vis what he or she needs, that is completely relative and subjective. As long as a person can afford to indulge what he or she wants, and as long as the person behaves in a socially acceptable manner, then I would suggest that we Live and let Live.
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Old 18th September 2012, 18:50   #476
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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
But I don't think the road presence of the SUV's or the respect the SUV's command on the Indian roads have anything to do with their sheer size. It is the fear of the power inside the vehicle for which people don't want to mess with these beasts. There may be a police officer or a neta or a rich businessman or any of his/her relatives who is sitting inside the vehicle that gives these SUV's the status that the command. General public and also the notorious autowallahs don't want to mess up with any of these people, who generally have high connections in the society, and spoil their day.
Agreed but again Scorpios and Safaris are today common's car.
While safety has nothing to do with 'size' but it always feels better to be inside a heavy SUV than a wafer thin Maruti or Hyundai hatch. It feels so scary to be driving a hatch or small sedan when notorious Boleros or Taveras or even 407 trucks trying to overtake you from left side. Same is with some silly kids trying to race with their Pulsars and FZs.
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Old 18th September 2012, 21:54   #477
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Considering India's road conditions at most places, I feel it is not only desirable but necessary to use vehicles with improved GCs and robust suspension setup. However, I feel that vehicles like Yeti, Duster (even Verito), upcoming Ecosport and Chevy Trax are more suitable considering their small footprints (both in terms of fuel efficiency, compact sizes) and refinement.

Fortuner, Pajero Sport and Endeavour are no doubt brilliant vehicles but what I do not like in these vehicles is that they are nothing but glorified pick-up trucks which have been converted to perform SUV duties resulting in massive profits for their manufacturers. Heck, even Toyota in its global website doesn't mention Fortuner as a SUV. It is mentioned as a MPV. Link:http://www.toyota-global.com/showroo...lery/MPVs.html

What I wish to ask manufacturers is - Is it not possible to cost efficiently design and develop some true blood SUVs like Pajero SFX, Montero, Toyota LC or Nissan Patrol instead of converting pick-ups to SUVs? Are Indians not worth it?
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Old 18th September 2012, 22:43   #478
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarthakgupta View Post
Fortuner, Pajero Sport and Endeavour are no doubt brilliant vehicles but what I do not like in these vehicles is that they are nothing but glorified pick-up trucks which have been converted to perform SUV duties resulting in massive profits for their manufacturers. Heck, even Toyota in its global website doesn't mention Fortuner as a SUV. It is mentioned as a MPV. Link:http://www.toyota-global.com/showroo...lery/MPVs.html

What I wish to ask manufacturers is - Is it not possible to cost efficiently design and develop some true blood SUVs like Pajero SFX, Montero, Toyota LC or Nissan Patrol instead of converting pick-ups to SUVs? Are Indians not worth it?
That link you shared doesn't convey the true picture. Tacoma, Tundra etc. are classified under SUVs. Maybe some intern worked on the pages?

Cost efficiently design and develop a large SUV for the Indian market? Manufacturers won't be interested. Those global vehicles are already there, mostly as CBUs. The economies of scale won't make sense for CKD or manufacture here.

And what is wrong with a glorified pick-up truck, may I ask? Or to put it another way, a station wagon version of a pick up with some tweaks? I am having a fantastic time with mine, I must say. And it takes me to places and allows me to do stuff which sedans won't. Would I have loved to have a Patrol? Definitely. Can I afford one in India? No way.

It is not a question of whether Indians are worth it or not. It is a question fo what companies can get away with in our market. Unless more competition is there or buyer behaviour changes, companies will milk us.
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Old 9th October 2012, 13:09   #479
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

The best of both worlds:

Crossovers are based on sedans, yet styled as SUVs. Cars like the Yeti / CRV / Outlander are nearly as much fun to drive as their sedan siblings and bring some SUV advantages too. However, in many areas, they are neither "here" nor "there". For instance, these crossovers lack the sheer ruggedness & offroad ability of SUVs. Neither can they seat anymore than 5 passengers (just as sedans). Plus, due to their weight, they aren't as quick or efficient as sedans. It doesn't help that they cost more than their sedan siblings either. Most people buy the premium crossovers for image rather than anything else.

SUMMARY

In a nutshell, buy an SUV only if you need the three rows of seats, rough road package or AWD. But for all things else, there is no substitute for the driving pleasure that a powerful sedan or hatchback can give you.
Dear GTO, Would this understanding still hold good with the Duster in mind that is a good handler as well as lighter so that fuel efficiency is not an issue ???
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Old 22nd November 2012, 12:51   #480
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

^^ I have the same query with respect to Duster and XUV. I am quoting the below from the official reviews. Could someone clarify this?

Duster's Ride and Handling:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Renault has hit the sweet spot with the suspension's ride & handling balance. The ride quality, in one word, is outstanding. The Duster flattens bad roads like few cars costing <35 lakhs do. The same stretch of broken tarmac that felt bumpy in an Innova the day earlier was dismissed off with arrogance by the Duster. Yes, there is a certain amount of stiffness felt, but its well within acceptable limits. You won't even feel the need to slow down for a bad road, especially at speed. What's more, on a flat highway, the suspension rides flat. There is none of the rear end bounciness that most competing SUVs suffer from. The dampers & springs are extremely well-tuned & the suspension travel over broken roads is impressive. This level of ride quality isn't surprising as the other Renaults (Logan & Fluence) also offer superb comfort on broken Indian roads. Another strength of this suspension is that it doesn't make a noise when doing its work. There are no unnecessary clunks & thuds heard on the inside.

Unlike most competing SUVs & MUVs from this price range, the Renault Duster has a front-wheel-drive (FWD) layout. This, along with the monocoque body construction, makes the Duster very car-like to drive. The turning radius is merely 5.2 meters (smaller than that of the VW Vento), making it easy to manage within the city. At expressway speeds, the Duster's behaviour is safe & predictable. Body roll is well controlled under all driving conditions. A sedan driver doesn't have to go through a learning curve when driving a Duster for the first time, unlike the Safari & Scorpio that entail a change in your high speed driving style. Yes, there is some top heaviness felt at 100 kph, but it's within acceptable limits. Pushing into a fast corner will see the Duster settle into gradual understeer; the same is progressive and there are no nasty surprises. Straight line stability is par for the course.
XUV's Ride and Handling:
Quote:
Originally Posted by manson View Post
The suspension is brilliantly tuned and is the new benchmark in the SUV segment. Such a level of ride <-> handling balance is only possible with a monocoque design. Those with a body-on-frame construction (from the Scorpio to the Fortuner) don't even come close in terms of on-road behaviour. There is an underlying firmness at city speeds, but the ride quality is never uncomfortable, and feels very mature all through. As the speedometer needle climbs, the XUV5OO stays flat, including at expressway speeds or over unevenly paved Indian highways. At speed, you donít even need to slow down; the XUV5OO can simply demolish the worst of craters in its path. Comfort levels are fabulous even on the middle row seat, and there is none of the excessive vertical movement / bounciness that we have experienced in most other UVs. Whether its regular driving or long distance touring, the XUV5OO is far more comfortable than the alternatives (including the Fortuner, Endeavour, Aria etc.).

The lower center of gravity, monocoque construction and wide stance greatly contribute to the XUV's handling capability. Body roll is extremely well controlled and, by SUV standards, this Mahindra feels very composed when cornering. The same corner + speed combination that would have inspired a topple-over feeling in my Scorpio feels effortless in the XUV5OO. In controlled private road conditions (i.e. the Mahindra test track), I pushed the XUV through corners, even forcing the car into a drift, yet there was zilch nervousness. And in an emergency situation, the ESP could prove to be a life-saver. Straight-line stability is of tall order too, with the XUV feeling rock solid at 150 kph (6th gear clipping @ 2,800 rpm). Those used to Scorpio, Safari & Fortuner are in for a pleasant surprise. In summary, I would term the XUV5OO's dynamics as safe, sure-footed and predictable in behaviour. The steering is neither too light nor too heavy within the city. As speeds build up, it weighs in sufficiently well. No, the steering is not rock hard on the expressway (as GTO prefers), yet it's not nervous or light either. What I especially liked was that the steering gives you a decent amount of feedback. The small turning radius (5.6 meters) makes this SUV fairly maneuverable in the city.
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