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Old 23rd January 2013, 13:11   #481
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

I face this time and again. Many times my friends get into huge rental SUVs like Ford Explorer and GMC Acadia and drive them much faster than their sedans. I'd be doing 65mph on a curvy hill road and they'd say "What are you doing? This thing was made to go FAST!". And I'd be like "Whaaat? No, it wasn't". Am I over-sensitive to all that rolling in the corners or are people really taking "SPORTS uv" literally?
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Old 23rd January 2013, 19:46   #482
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Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
I face this time and again. Many times my friends get into huge rental SUVs like Ford Explorer and GMC Acadia and drive them much faster than their sedans. TS uv" literally?
Maybe these pals of yours need some physics lessons, specifically related to things like centre of gravity, inertia of motion and the like!
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Old 23rd January 2013, 20:52   #483
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
I face this time and again. Many times my friends get into huge rental SUVs like Ford Explorer and GMC Acadia and drive them much faster than their sedans. I'd be doing 65mph on a curvy hill road and they'd say "What are you doing? This thing was made to go FAST!". And I'd be like "Whaaat? No, it wasn't". Am I over-sensitive to all that rolling in the corners or are people really taking "SPORTS uv" literally?
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Maybe these pals of yours need some physics lessons, specifically related to things like centre of gravity, inertia of motion and the like!
I would NOT blame them. Most of these SUVs should come with a lot more electronics & safety features which can take care of the vehicle & it's passengers at acceptable higher speeds. Things can turn ugly if you go beyond the limits for sure, but the limits for these will be higher than many of the Indian UVs. And they might have better roads & infrastructure, traffic discipline etc which supports faster & safer speeds too. Even if we get these cars in India at a later point of time, we never know we can do similar speeds as we may get a stripped down, less safer version; add to it "Indian" conditions!

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 23rd January 2013 at 20:53.
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Old 24th January 2013, 06:44   #484
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Well the comparison isn't with Indian sedans but US sedans. Even with these road conditions doing hill curves at speeds higher than 65mph (not kmph) in a fully loaded (seven adults) SUV with high centre of gravity... Seems scary to me! There's a reason these places are 50-55mph zone...
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Old 24th January 2013, 13:31   #485
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Government plans higher taxes on SUVs.

The Finance ministry plans to increase the excise duty on diesel SUVs, acording to a report. The quatum of price increase is not known. Currently, both petrol and diesel cars exceeding four metres in length, with an engine capacity of less than 1,200 cc in petrol versions and 1,500 cc in diesel versions, pay 24 per cent duty. And 27 per cent for additional engine capacity.

http://www.wheelsunplugged.com/news/...taxes-suvs/885
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Old 24th January 2013, 15:06   #486
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Government plans higher taxes on SUVs.

The Finance ministry plans to increase the excise duty on diesel SUVs, acording to a report. The quatum of price increase is not known. Currently, both petrol and diesel cars exceeding four metres in length, with an engine capacity of less than 1,200 cc in petrol versions and 1,500 cc in diesel versions, pay 24 per cent duty. And 27 per cent for additional engine capacity.

http://www.wheelsunplugged.com/news/...taxes-suvs/885
There is already a clear difference in duties for sub 4m and 4m and beyond segment !! I dont know why this sudden urge to tax SUV beyond 4m ?

Also why just SUV ? we also have diesel sedans which are beyond 4m and If i am not wrong, A duster and a Vento/Sunny diesel gives similar mileage

Why just target Diesel SUV beyond certain length ? It is a different story if they talk about engine displacement(2ltr and above for example) as that is directly proportional to more fuel burning
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Old 5th March 2013, 04:02   #487
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Question Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'm seeing a large number of queries in our "What car?" sub-forum inquiring about SUVs. The justification usually given is highway driving. BAAH, I say. Nope, I don't buy that reasoning at all. Sedans are faster, efficient and immensely more satisfying to drive, especially on the highway.

An SUV is a special category of vehicle with its own list of pros & cons. The starting range of SUVs in India (i.e. Safari & Scorpio) cost about Rs. 10 lakh for the middle variants....money which could also buy you a higher end C segment sedan. Lets outline the upside & downside to either.

Advantage SEDAN:
  • Ride comfort : The Safari's ride quality is an exception. Most other SUVs - from the Scorpio to the Endeavour to the Fortuner - suffer from bumpy ride quality. You can forget about the composed ride (city & highway) that most C & C+ sedans have to offer.
Is the ride quality of the Tata Safari significantly better than the Toyota Fortuner? How exactly is it better? How does the Tata Safari Storme compare?
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Old 5th March 2013, 11:14   #488
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by Murugan View Post
Is the ride quality of the Tata Safari significantly better than the Toyota Fortuner? How exactly is it better? How does the Tata Safari Storme compare?
Probably it is the low speed ride that is better in Safari then the Fortuner. Somewhere I read (in the forum itself) that Storme tends to bounce around.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 23:38   #489
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Originally Posted by Murugan View Post

Is the ride quality of the Tata Safari significantly better than the Toyota Fortuner? How exactly is it better? How does the Tata Safari Storme compare?
Hi GTO/murugan & team,
I am currently at a juncture where I need to make a decision on the new car. I have liked the storme & verna diesel ex AT. I have a driver and I run approximately 3000 Km's a month. Approximately 1800 in mumbai and 1200 kms mumbai Pune on expressway per month.
The storme xl and verna ex at are the same price when it comes to onroadn pricepoint. The concern I have is safari is 256mm wider than the verna. Almost 10inches. Does it really make a big difference or people give way to the storme....
It's a war between heart and head. Heart has fallen for the storme and head says book the AT. That's the way to go. I work for a software company in sales and am on field everyday. My travel is multipoint and not point to point.

Verna AT EX . 1019000 ex showroom
Safari storme LX . 1024000 ex showroom.

Pl suggest ... Heart or Head ?

Regards
KD

Last edited by GTO : 25th March 2013 at 12:55. Reason: corrected kim's to kms
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Old 24th March 2013, 08:45   #490
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by krdeshmukh View Post
Hi GTO/murugan & team,
I am currently at a juncture where I need to make a decision on the new car. I have liked the storme & verna diesel ex AT. I have a driver and I run approximately 3000 Kim's a month. Approximately 1800 in mumbai and 1200 kms mumbai Pune on expressway per month.
The storme xl and verna ex at are the same price when it comes to onroadn pricepoint. The concern I have is safari is 256mm wider than the verna. Almost 10inches. Does it really make a big difference or people give way to the storme....
It's a war between heart and head. Heart has fallen for the storme and head says book the AT. That's the way to go. I work for a software company in sales and am on field everyday. My travel is multipoint and not point to point.

Verna AT EX . 1019000 ex showroom
Safari storme LX . 1024000 ex showroom.

Pl suggest ... Heart or Head ?

Regards
KD
For the kind of usage such as yours please go for the Storme and you will not regret it. Being taller, wider, longer than the Verna is no factor. People who would bully you in the Verna give way to a bigger vehicle like the Storme. You can often see traffic parting ways for you.

Also the middle row of the Safari was the place to be in case you are chauffered. I am sure the Storme will be similar if not the same. Verna or any low sedan will simply not give you the legspace or the comfort of the Safari.

Generally Safari can handle curves and road imperfections without losing stability upto 120kmph or so depending on the road, having said that, a SUV needs to be handled more carefully than a sedan.
But from what I gather the Verna is the worst handling sedan around, so I am not sure if it handles worse than the Safari or not.

Interiors and plastic quality seem comparable now, space is more in the Storme and ride quality seems better. Equipment levels seem more in the Verna than the Lx, especially the safety ones. also no AT in the Safari
So take your pick.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 24th March 2013 at 09:48. Reason: corrected kim's to kms in quote box
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Old 24th March 2013, 09:44   #491
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When it comes to ride quality we must add one more vehicle to SUV advantage. Duster simply glides over uneven roads which no sedan in its price range (or even higher) can ever imagine of.
Handling and speed stability is also equivalent to sedans capable of average dynamics. No wonder Duster is such a big hit
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Old 24th March 2013, 09:52   #492
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When it comes to ride quality we must add one more vehicle to SUV advantage. Duster simply glides over uneven roads which no sedan in its price range (or even higher) can ever imagine of.
Handling and speed stability is also equivalent to sedans capable of average dynamics. No wonder Duster is such a big hit
Hi
I have not checked the duster as it was only 5seater. & in 5 seats I would look at AT. If 7 seater then SUV. Also Dacia brand has been an issue . Having said that I will TD today before the final call.
Thanks
KD
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Old 24th March 2013, 11:14   #493
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Hi
I have not checked the duster as it was only 5seater. & in 5 seats I would look at AT. If 7 seater then SUV. Also Dacia brand has been an issue . Having said that I will TD today before the final call.
Thanks
KD
Duster is a time tasted machine in European market and boasts of an engine and suspension that has time and again proved to be heavy duty. Duster anyday will be a better lasting vehicle than the likes of Safari and co.
I dont think there is any AT variant for Duster. Though you should check this vehicle if extra two seats are not a compulsion.
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Old 24th March 2013, 12:39   #494
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by krdeshmukh View Post
Hi
I have not checked the duster as it was only 5seater. & in 5 seats I would look at AT. If 7 seater then SUV. Also Dacia brand has been an issue . Having said that I will TD today before the final call.
Thanks
KD
Def, test drive all the cars, if possible back to back and then take a call. Btw a car like Duster is not really a SUV. Yes and traffic wont part way for you, and Duster being wider in the rear (due to the wheel arches), you will have difficulties in traffic/confined parking when compared to the Verna.
Regarding build quality, none of the above is a Rolls to keep it with you for next 50 years, almost all cars last the avg 5-7 years of ownership with ease.
The Tata extended warranty is a boon, and service quality has improved quite a bit now.
Not sure of Renault service in India, the ownership threads might be helpful.


PS: if you want to carry 7 people in comfort please look at an Innova. No other car can give you that kind of comfort for 7 people.
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Old 24th March 2013, 13:27   #495
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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I would NOT blame them. Most of these SUVs should come with a lot more electronics & safety features which can take care of the vehicle & it's passengers at acceptable higher speeds. Things can turn ugly if you go beyond the limits for sure, but the limits for these will be higher than many of the Indian UVs. And they might have better roads & infrastructure, traffic discipline etc which supports faster & safer speeds too. Even if we get these cars in India at a later point of time, we never know we can do similar speeds as we may get a stripped down, less safer version; add to it "Indian" conditions!
Well, not really. Electronics can only do so much, it cannot overrule physics. So, on curvy roads, high CG and body roll cannot be 'fixed' by electronics that it behaves better than a sedan!
Only softroaders like CRV or Xtrain have good dynamics and none of them are typically 'butch' or offroader SUVs!
And an Accord has as much electronics and safety features as a CRV!
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