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View Poll Results: What is Build Quality to you?
Supreme Reliability 301 70.66%
The "Thud" 125 29.34%
Voters: 426. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20th February 2010, 01:53   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque
I am not making it up... the original poster has said it.
I never said (or meant) that you made it up. After you posted, I did check what the OP initially posted and here is what he says :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Idiot
my cousin got hit by a truck from the side (drivers side) slightly off centre to the rear and the car was pushed away by at least 30 meters,
While "pushed away" could mean being pushed sideways, it is also possible that the car was pushed in a forward direction, especially if you are hit off centre. If a car is hit exactly at the centre, then it is quite possible that the car is dragged sideways, which to me does not seem to be the case here. Anyway, the OP can clarify - we are merely speculating.
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Old 20th February 2010, 05:14   #107
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For me build quality would be a car which could stand severe crash and let the passengers be safe. Thud no thud does not matter. Car should be solid built with stability on high speeds because its mostly above 80-100km/hr that cars build quality comes into picture.

Apart from that good plastics, less or no rattles should be most important part.

Poor build quality == Maruti Suzuki
Good Build quality in same price == Fiat | Ford | GM | VW
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Old 22nd February 2010, 12:33   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Idiot View Post
I do believe that its not about how much metal but about 'where'.
Just for the facts file, I could not find fiat palio on the NCAP site, alhough a sedan version was crash tested and got an equivalent 3 star rating. Swift got 4 stars (afcourse with the airbags) athough I do believe that still equates to a 'safer' and hence better build.
There was a poll on the safest hatchback in India, a few years back on Team bhp. There were more than a dozen hatchbacks in that poll, Swift included. Palio was the clear winner with more than 50% of the entire votes polled in favor of it.

Palio won the poll and not Swift Zxi. I still wonder where were all the Fiat bashers then!

Things have definitely changed now and we have newer cars around and that older poll results won't hold now anyway but wanted to point this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Palio was not Euro NCAP tested, as it is not sold in the UK.
Right, Palio was made for third world countries and not for countries like the UK, hence you can't find Wuro NCap figures.

Since it does not have Euro Ncap figures, don't think it is an unsafe car. It's a very safe car. A person who encountered a head-on collision with a truck while driving a Petra is saying that. (me )

Last edited by clevermax : 22nd February 2010 at 12:34.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 16:11   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post

Congrats on your purchase. Swift is good to drive. But, I have a bias against Swift. And that is because I have quite a bad experience with its quality. You can read about that in another thread.
Dear Civic-sense,

Thank you for your good wishes! I got the White VXI with ABS yesterday!

The palio sedan was tested in China crash test facility conforming to the ncap testing procedures, I think someone posted the wikipedia link about the palio. I think I found the sedan version test following the research from there only.

On a more general note , I think a lot was speculated on my cousin's accident story. Someone mentioned that it was dragged 30 meters and that it was impossible. Yes I guess that is correct since it was not dragged, it was pushed away!
I personally saw the 30 meter skid, since my cousin took a photograph of it! The truck did hit the car at about 30Km/h (no way of knowing exactly).
It was a slightly acute angle hit, since my cousin's car was in motion (40-50km/h) the acute angle hit towards the rear would have contributed to the forward motion a bit.
I must say that the hit was central enough to not make the car spin, but off-centre enough to make it change direction by only 90 degrees till it came to a stop.

I hope this gives a better picture of the accident.

By the way I dont know if my car has fire protection or not, I do believe it would have been advertised if they do have it. Also I do not know how the fps gets triggered, maybe it gets triggered only in front collision?

supremeBaleno, thank you for your support, I was really feeling the heat being a newbie. I do believe each accident is different! and that there are a million ways that God decides to spare human life!

Hey Sammeer:"stand severe crash and let the passengers be safe" I do believe that it is the purpose of tests like the ncap to let us know that. hence my mension of the ncap ratings.
I also do believe that manufacturers should be forced to get all varients of their cars tested, and not allowed to sell any untested ones Anywhere in the world!
You think Maruti would not have the money to give 3 cars of each varient they are selling? They sell above 1 lac vehicles in India in a single month!
Better still manufacturers should not be allowed to sell a car without the safety features of the crash tested car!

Will cover more in my next post. Sorry have been busy with buying the car and slightly modding it. Will go through everything and post.


Cheers
and please drive safe! no car can gaurantee safety!
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Old 24th February 2010, 07:26   #110
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I recently managed to bang into the back of a wagonR at Kerala in the Premier padmini. The bonnet suffered a paint scratch and also a bent number plate.

The wagonR became a Ritz and bumper deformed.(expenses Rs.16k, settled on the spot)

Therefore i think build quality can be equated to the thud(heavy metal).

Last edited by ramzsys : 24th February 2010 at 07:29.
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Old 24th February 2010, 10:31   #111
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While i voted for Supreme Reliability, I do believe the "Thud" is also an integral part of that.

To me personally build quality is defined by;
solidity
reliability
feeling of safety and security when within the vehicle
and of course;
the intangible feeling where you just "feel" you can go anywhere anytime in your vehicle, without worry.
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Old 24th February 2010, 10:52   #112
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I voted for the thud factor.By "the thud" I am assuming that the car has been well built with high grade quality materials that exudes a sense of safety,stability and security at whatever speed.
I love cars and its okay for me if they develop some problems once in a while.Because it will mean that the car is flawed which makes them more lovable.Otherwise cars would be just another type of an inanimate object.



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Old 24th February 2010, 10:53   #113
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i have a innova & scorpio. the innova, being a toyota, is the epitome of reliability. but the build of the scorpio is much much better.

as someone posted earlier, if someone leans on the innova's side fenders, he risks denting that area, its that flimsy! i have seen numerous incidents with my innova where the body gets so easily crumpled at low speed impacts that i am scared to imagine what would happen in a head on collision at high speeds. the bumpers break so easily that i dont understand why it is kept there in the first place? to empty our pockets??? in traffic, the innova's body is so prone to dents that i feel like i am sitting in an 800, i just cannot make my way through traffic confidently. infact, even a santro's body is tougher than the innova, i have done a head-to-head comparison!

on the other hand, the scorpio, though not supremely reliable like the innova, enjoys a much tougher build which makes me "feel" safer inside. it has never had any breakdowns yet, so nothing wrong with that. even the scorpio has had a few shunts, albeit bigger ones, but with no damage to the car, unlike the innova. it does not have airbags (mine is the pre-refresh model) like my innova, but still i feel more safer in the scorpio than the innova and i am not kidding!

Last edited by raj_5004 : 24th February 2010 at 10:55.
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Old 24th February 2010, 10:57   #114
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Ambi's used to have (or rather even now have) a massive thud, rather a "clunk".

Build qaulity? Puhleez ...

I think ppl here are confusing build quality with sheet metal gauge used for fabrication.
Quality has got nothing to do with thickness of metal panes.
Quality is simply a measure of defects.
High quality = low defects and faulty parts.

Last edited by alpha1 : 24th February 2010 at 11:00.
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Old 24th February 2010, 13:33   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
I think ppl here are confusing build quality with sheet metal gauge used for fabrication.
Quality has got nothing to do with thickness of metal panes.
Quality is simply a measure of defects.
High quality = low defects and faulty parts.
Absolutely right Alpha1!

Getting back to the thread starter. What would you prefer?

Build quality (or Thud) is about how good the stuff in a car make you "feel".

Reliability is about how good the stuff in a car "work".

If we go deeper in the "feel" and start equating it to how well it "works" you are moving towards the reliability,hence confusing the two issues.

How well a car is made from a sefety point of view can not be measured by how many bumps or dents it accumulates. It is quite simply, how a car absorbs or transfers shock away from the occupants. Only way of guaging that, is through crash tests!
A simple example of this is: the stud helmet! many people initially did not buy it because according to the instruction pamphlet, in the event of an impact, the helmet would crumple and you Need to buy a new one!

An unbelievable sentiment from a car dealer explaining the airbag to me: Sir a balloon will come in front of your face to protect you, but you know what the problem is? If the airbags are deployed once you will need to spend atleast 50,000 to replace them! What is more important one's life or money, but sadly that is how it is.

Cheers
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Old 24th February 2010, 14:54   #116
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For me, heavy metal matters, because it gives me the driving pleasure. I do not want a car to be driven, I want to drive it, and I want to feel it. In my openion European cars gives that feel.

The meaning of build quality means definitly reliable, safer and rattle free.

E.g. Sometimes back I did change the front lower arm of my Palio, and the replaced one lying in my car for few days. My brother inform me that he also going to replace the front lower arm of hi Baleno. We both went together, I found that Baleno's lower arm were much lighter than Palio's and to my surprise it Baleno's lower arm were 30% more costlier than my Palio's.

So some of the parts may be cheaper for European cars than Japanies one.

But I would vote for Thud, if there would be option for Thud+Build I would have voted it.
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Old 24th February 2010, 15:20   #117
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Its always the question of your beast not failing when your are in an unknown terrain. That confidence would come only based on supreme reliability.
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Old 24th February 2010, 16:03   #118
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average car buyers/consumers in India typically would tend to compromise on safety because cost of acquisition is more of a priority here at the moment than anything else.

the car dealer is simply catering to the needs or wants of the larger mass of the consumer type that he encounters on a day to day basis.
there is no right or wrong in that.

it is only when an overall consumer evolution takes place that safety will become more of a priority in our country - this will take another 5-7 years at least in my opinion for a larger "critical mass" of consumers to demand more safety features as standard rather than optional.

government regulations and proper enforcement would also help - as in the case of Seat belts in the Metro's.

changing consumer behaviour takes a lot of education, committment and time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Idiot View Post
An unbelievable sentiment from a car dealer explaining the airbag to me: Sir a balloon will come in front of your face to protect you, but you know what the problem is? If the airbags are deployed once you will need to spend atleast 50,000 to replace them! What is more important one's life or money, but sadly that is how it is.

Cheers
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Old 24th February 2010, 18:07   #119
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I voted for Supreme Reliability!
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Old 24th February 2010, 19:58   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
The wagonR became a Ritz and bumper deformed.
LOL , I almost fell off my chair reading that.

Voted for the "thud" - heavy gauge metal, gives a feeling of safety when you're inside the car.

IMHO, reliability is different for me. It means no sudden and unexpected breakdown on the roads.
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