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View Poll Results: Should SUV owners pay market price for diesel?
Yes 235 64.56%
No 110 30.22%
I am not sure 19 5.22%
Voters: 364. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 1st February 2011, 15:10   #226
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

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Originally Posted by New.Novice View Post
After having termed SUV’s as “Socially Useless Vehicles” and SUV owners as “criminals” and also taking a jibe on the likes of BMW’s and Honda’s, Mr. Jairam Ramesh has today coined the thought of SUV owners to pay full market price for diesel.

He has already got a lot of flake on what he said on BMW and Honda, in and outside of this forum, I am restricting this thread to your opinion on weather or not SUV owners should pay market price for Diesel.

Of course, modalities of that happening in terms of how would you monitor and control (one will start taking diesel in a can and would not drive SUV to bunk etc.) is a different issue all together, let us see how team bhpians converge (or do not converge) on the basic thought itself.

Do leave your reasons along with your vote for a better comprehension of your rationale
I would perhaps go one step further - all car owners should pay market price for Diesel. Anyone who can afford a car should pay the whole price! Everyone does that in all countries. Subsidy should be for tractors and other farming equipment!!
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Old 1st February 2011, 15:48   #227
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

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Originally Posted by rkap01 View Post
I would perhaps go one step further - all car owners should pay market price for Diesel. Anyone who can afford a car should pay the whole price! Everyone does that in all countries. Subsidy should be for tractors and other farming equipment!!
Yes, why differentiate between diesel car users? If there is a dual-pricing mechanism( not on cards any sooner, if at all there is one) in place, then all passenger car owners irrespective of their size should pay the market price.

Also, as reported by petroleum ministry, the so-called subsidy is Rs.2.87.

I wonder how much percentage of diesel consumed is by passenger cars. Of the total diesel consumption this segment's consumption may not be high.

Dual-pricing is not a workable solution. It is even more ridiculous than the 6 a.m. to 6 p.m fuel stations of Gulf War I - V.P. Singh era.

Last edited by simplyself : 1st February 2011 at 15:53.
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Old 1st February 2011, 16:10   #228
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

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Originally Posted by simplyself View Post

Also, as reported by petroleum ministry, the so-called subsidy is Rs.2.87.

.
Ha ha see the amount perfect side winder to deflect missiles of public anger that's all
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Old 1st February 2011, 17:47   #229
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Ha ha see the amount perfect side winder to deflect missiles of public anger that's all
I do not remember the exact source of the below, but it was from a regional news paper sometime around July 2010.

Quote:
Petrol price details (per litre in rupee):

Base price: 25.70
Excise duty: 14.78
Transportation: 0.04
State Sales Tax (Kerala): 11.76
Cess: 0.12
Commission: 1.13
Total 53.53

Diesel price details (per litre in rupee):

Base price: 27.26
Excise duty: 4.74
Transportation: 0.05
State Sales Tax (Kerala): 7.91
Cess: 0.08
Commission: 0.67
Total 40.71
Just have a look at the base prices first. Diesel is costlier to produce than Petrol. Now look at the excise duty for Petrol. Rs 15 for petrol while it is a measly Rs 5 for diesel. Similar with the state sales tax. For every km a diesel car runs, the country is being robbed of Rs 1.5. For every km!!!

Last edited by civic-sense : 1st February 2011 at 17:48.
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Old 1st February 2011, 18:07   #230
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

While diesel is subsidised, kerosene is very highly subsidised. In fact base price of Kerosene is almost same as petrol. If you look at price of Aviation fuel that is the real price of Kerosene.

That's why there are big adulteration rackets of mixing kerosene with diesel. Same is the case with Naptha. If we minimise the cost differences by balancing the excise and other duties nobody will start adulteration and No one will loose life (Like Sonawane).

In most of the countries diesel is costlier than petrol but still people buy diesel cars as they are more fuel efficient. So even when you reduce subsidy SUV owners and Merc walas will still use them for that advantage.

May be only railways should get advantage of lower excise on diesel. I believe farmers using diesel is minority now. Majority has already shifted to electricity.

Diesel, other than for transport is mostly used by Diesel generator sets. Now that we have huge reserves of Gas found we should make most of the gensets run on CNG.
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Old 1st February 2011, 19:41   #231
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Just have a look at the base prices first. Diesel is costlier to produce than Petrol. Now look at the excise duty for Petrol. Rs 15 for petrol while it is a measly Rs 5 for diesel. Similar with the state sales tax. For every km a diesel car runs, the country is being robbed of Rs 1.5. For every km!!!
Well bear in mind this price breakup does not cite so called subsidy which every minister worth his salt tom tom , This subsidy is payed in terms of Oil bond and no definate breakup is given on how much is for kerosene , Cooking gas , Diesel etc.
Also the big part of this so called subsidy is in the accounts of ONGC and OIL which provide crude from domestic sources but bill as per international C&F rates ( around 20-25% of total crude)

Now going by your own statistics if government Levy rational amount of excise duty on Diesel how exactly country is robbed ?


Is nation robbed because you pay 5% import duty on a new electronic item instead of 50% ?

I would say a Petrol vehicle driver is robbed 3 times more by government as it is the tax component on a commodity we are discussing.

Why can't government keep it simple no subsidy and rational amount of tax that is true capitalistic model benefiting all ?

It want to follow tax model of social democracies of Europe and spending model of Somalia and Congo.

Last edited by amitk26 : 1st February 2011 at 19:45.
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Old 1st February 2011, 20:22   #232
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well bear in mind this price breakup does not cite so called subsidy which every minister worth his salt tom tom , This subsidy is payed in terms of Oil bond and no definate breakup is given on how much is for kerosene , Cooking gas , Diesel etc.
It want to follow tax model of social democracies of Europe and spending model of Somalia and Congo.
Well said.
From one barrel we get (in gallons):
  1. 7.27 gallons (27.5 liters): Other products (feedstocks for petrochemical plants, asphalt, bitumen, tar, etc.)
  2. 1.72 gallons (6.5 liters): Liquefied Petroleum Gases (LPG)
  3. 3.82 gallons (14.5 liters): Jet Fuel (kerosene)
  4. 1.76 gallons (6.6 liters): Heavy Fuel Oil (Residual)
  5. 1.75 gallons (6.6 liters): Other Distillates (Heating Oil)
  6. 9.21 gallons (35 liters): Diesel
  7. 19.15 gallons (72.5 liters): Petrol
From petrochemical feedstocks many everyday-life products are then obtained.
Eg: Fertilizers for agriculture, Plastic toys and gadgets (bags, computer cases, etc.), Bubble gums, Car tires, Perfumes, Petroleum jelly, Ammonia, Washing liquids.
So now you can get the exact price we are paying for diesel/petrol from per barrel cost imported. It has added stuff to it.
Sourced from net



Well Its apparent isnt it, that the govt needs to rationalize the way the fuel is taxed. I would say reduce it extra baggage of taxation and bring it on par. What the heck is excise etc for..what is govt doing of sales tax/vat being collected..

Oil companies stocks dolling out heavy dividends ?? employees getting gold coins wow.. Then how come they are in losses. Sniff Sniff another sham ?

Petrol is/was the highest tax revenue generator for govt viz a viz diesel. History is there to speak for it.

Oh no,
Quote:
In the end, though, what people choose to power their cars all comes down to tax. And therein lies the problem for the Government. It cannot blame the problem entirely on world oil prices, and hauliers(truckers) who rely on diesel have in recent years shown how effective they can be in taking action against the Government.


Likewise, industry and agriculture relies on diesel - rising costs will translate into higher prices in the shops, which is not good news for a government already under pressure over the rate of inflation. The fact is that only a small fraction of the cost of what comes out of the pump nozzle has anything to do with oil prices, refining capacity or increased demand in elsewhere.


With more than two-thirds of the pump price being accounted for by the Govt, what kind of engine you choose is, in essence, down to politics rather than the science of internal combustion.
Biodiesel.. where is it ?

Last edited by Rahulk76 : 1st February 2011 at 20:23.
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