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View Poll Results: Should SUV owners pay market price for diesel?
Yes 235 64.56%
No 110 30.22%
I am not sure 19 5.22%
Voters: 364. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 3rd December 2010, 14:45   #91
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No! I feel its next to impossible to implement 2 different rates for diesel.

Instead there should be a fuel surcharge while registering a diesel passenger vehicle depending on the engine size and efficiency.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 14:50   #92
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Voted NO - though I meant Yes as what I wished to convey was that there should be discounting on the rates for anyone including Trucks Yes prices would rise once, but it is the transport component of cost that would rise by 20% - the net impact on overall prices would actually be less than 5% but it is a politicised issue and the oposition will take this up as a plank for a new issue so it's not done. Prices should actually be decontrolled for all except Kerosene.

Last edited by ACM : 3rd December 2010 at 14:54.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 15:53   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
most of us are probably in the max income tax bracket.
we do pay a sizeable chunk of our annual earnings to a bunch of politicos who are busy land grabbing and lining their own pockets.

In effect, most of us work for 4 months for the GOVERNMENT out of a 1 year period, just to pay our taxes! And when it comes to the tiny refunds we are supposed to receive after showing all our savings, the IT authorities demand a bribe to release the same! Think about that.

Then;
Do we even get basic roads to drive on?
Are there proper street lights?
Do we have any recourse to a proper law and order mechanism?
Is there any accountability at all - take Mayawati's statues and garlands made of 1000 Rupee notes for instance or CWG or the Adarsh scam or the 2G scam.

So why are we making a storm in a tea cup about Diesel prices?

If there is a small amount of gain by the Great Indian Middle class in terms of Diesel prices which are subsidized then let it be is my view.

Start taxing the zillionaire farmers and agricultural income.
Start making the politicians pay for all their misdemeanours.
Provide the common man with a proper infrastructure

If the great Reliance brothers are India's richest men, then why arent they in the Top 5 Tax payers list?
what about Monsieur Pawar the great and his behind the scenes action?
what about uncle Lalloo?
and finally our dear Monsieur Yeddy in Bangalore

Bring them to book and then we will see!
Couldnt agree more with you Shankar.In our country,everything comes down to common man(Who pays his taxes on time,literally pays for everything under the sun)
Our so called leaders get all the allowances etc(Including fuel allowances)
Why is it that the minister questions the SUV"s owners? They already pay a heavy price(Road tax,Excise etc)
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Old 9th December 2010, 17:40   #94
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Smile Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Hi,
There are so many people who are living below the poverty line so why dont we get the big time CEO's and politicians to open up their bank account and help them. Shameless tactics by the crocodiles in suites. So next time around the governement will ask people living in cities to pay more for electricity, lpg, vegetables and allow the rich farm owners to get subsidies and write of loan. Anyway i think this is a way for the crocodiles to arm twist few companies to finance their next election.
Cheers
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Old 9th December 2010, 17:58   #95
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Senseless idea this. This move if implemented will only promote black marketeers. Instead, a slightly higher tax slab for engine displacement/CO2 emissions should be put in place.
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Old 9th December 2010, 17:58   #96
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Increasing the diesel price for SUV owners: wont this increase the blackmarket ?

Imagine this:

A truck goes and fills his tank by paying Rs.40/Liter (subsidized price). He will sell the diesel in his tank for Rs.50/liter to SUV owners. SUV Owners will happily buy it because they dont have to pay Rs.60/Liter (un-subsidized price) at the bunk.

Cheers,
Rajesh
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Old 9th December 2010, 23:26   #97
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

It is a yes but let us be clear about the market price first. Will it change daily or again some "babu" will decide once in six months. and yes if I pay the market price and not avail the subsidy, then DO I HAVE TO PAY THE EXORBITANT TAXES levied by respective state governments and the additional cess?

I am a petrol car driver, i am willing to pay the market price but why do I have to pay tax to central govt as well as state govt, why not a unified simple tax and not so high.

come to think of it, actually even the farmer is not getting any subsidy. Whatever subsidy is deducted from the "market price" that is replaced by taxes. So, the farmer is actually paying the market price. it is like taking your money out from one pocket and putting it in another.

If everybody is so concerned about the poor farmer all of a sudden, then just exempt all the taxes for him. He will do just fine.

BUT the ploy is not to relieve the farmer in any way but to extract some more from others.

my opinion might be wrong. please feel free to correct.
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Old 10th December 2010, 09:18   #98
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

I voted No.
If you have differential pricing for Diesel, based on commercial vs private use- that would likely lead to unfettered price escalation for the private owner.

It would be unfair to suddenly change the rules for such a vehicle owner after he has made his decision to go for one.

As others have commented before, the total cost of ownership = on road price + running costs during ownership+ fuel costs -expected sale price.
Most of us do consider this equation before we purchase the vehicle. For a petrol vehicle the on-road price + running costs are lower while fuel costs are higher, while for a diesel vehicle the opposite is true. In the long term these effects tend to counter-balance each other and the choice for going petrol or diesel is something the potential owner takes a call on.
But once the owner has decided on Diesel, he is committed - there is no way he can reverse that decision.
If the govt. or other statutory body imposes such differential pricing, it would need to be challenged in a court of law. If this imposition were to prevail, in all fairness the government then should offer to buy back all the non-commercial registered diesel vehicles at a price acceptable to the owner, and all this without raising further taxes or cutting on other committed expenditures as defined by the budget.
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Old 10th December 2010, 09:22   #99
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

SUV owners are paying the market price. The price of diesel is low since the excise is less than on petrol. If you take Rs.10 as tax and then give away Rs.2 as so called subsidy then is it a subsidy? Not in my view.

I would say change full prices for all fuels, and then give out food stamps (or whatever) to those you wish to support.

Imagine the corruption which will come in if diesel is priced differentially, as is already happening with LPG! Of course the babus and netas will love it.
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Old 10th December 2010, 10:20   #100
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
SUV owners are paying the market price. The price of diesel is low since the excise is less than on petrol. If you take Rs.10 as tax and then give away Rs.2 as so called subsidy then is it a subsidy? Not in my view.

I would say change full prices for all fuels, and then give out food stamps (or whatever) to those you wish to support.

Imagine the corruption which will come in if diesel is priced differentially, as is already happening with LPG! Of course the babus and netas will love it.


Didnt know about the above. And agree with giving food stamps to those who really need it.

Voted no for the obvious reason. Scorpio owner
Besides, the SUVs in India are not gas guzzlers like the 7 liter behemoths of the US. The new scorp gives 12kmpl. Equal to most sedans.
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Old 10th December 2010, 10:49   #101
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500cc View Post
Increasing the diesel price for SUV owners: wont this increase the blackmarket ?

Imagine this:

A truck goes and fills his tank by paying Rs.40/Liter (subsidized price). He will sell the diesel in his tank for Rs.50/liter to SUV owners. SUV Owners will happily buy it because they dont have to pay Rs.60/Liter (un-subsidized price) at the bunk.

Cheers,
Rajesh
According to me, the best way for the government to move forward on this issue is that a certain "Diesel Subsidy Tax" should be levied on all diesel passenger vehicles annually. This can be collected by insurance companies while renewing insurance as most people will avoid going to Regional Transport Authorities every year due to the fear of corrupt officials. It will the be sure shot way of collection of "Diesel Subsidy Tax". I do not foresee the government having dual pricing so this is a good solution.

P.S. I own a diesel car myself.
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Old 10th December 2010, 11:10   #102
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

@anilkalvani; A one tine tax of Rs.80,000 on new diesel vehicles was proposed by (I think) the Kelkar committee.
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Old 10th December 2010, 11:31   #103
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
SUV owners are paying the market price. The price of diesel is low since the excise is less than on petrol. If you take Rs.10 as tax and then give away Rs.2 as so called subsidy then is it a subsidy? Not in my view.

I would say change full prices for all fuels, and then give out food stamps (or whatever) to those you wish to support.

Imagine the corruption which will come in if diesel is priced differentially, as is already happening with LPG! Of course the babus and netas will love it.
>>>

Couldn't agree with you more.

Some nuggets from our political economy.

1. Learning from experience #1 : Subsidies almost never benefit the intended recipient; they are hijacked by interest groups who have or develop a vested interest in keeping the subsidies rolling
2. Learning from experience #2 : Subsidies is a sure way to manipulate prices to benefit certain sections at the expense of other sections of society and has been found to be inequitable
3. Learning from experience #3 : Subsidies are extremely difficult to monitor for efficacy/effectiveness
4. Learning from experience #4 :Subsidies encourage misuse/overuse
5. Learning from experience #5 : Topiwallahs & babus love subsidies

The food stamp approach is the simplest and is effective in providing economic support to sections which require them the most. That is why it has not been implemented by any government in our country.

In the matter of SUV owners, they should pay the market price. Every single citizen should pay the market price, for all goods and services. For those who deserve support, there is the food stamp way.

Regards, drive safe, pay taxes for our enlightened self interest
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Old 10th December 2010, 12:57   #104
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@anilkalvani; A one tine tax of Rs.80,000 on new diesel vehicles was proposed by (I think) the Kelkar committee.
Well, if they charge in the way i proposed, even existing diesel car owners will be affected.

1. Less than 1499cc and Less than 4m - Rs. 1,500/month - Rs. 18,000 annually

2. 1500cc to 1999cc and Less than 4.5m - Rs. 2,000/month - Rs. 24,000 annually

3. 2000cc to 2499cc - Rs. 2,500/month - Rs. 30,000 annually

4. 2500cc to 2999cc - Rs. 3,000/month - Rs. 36,000 annually

5. 3000cc and above - Rs. 3,500/month - Rs. 42,000 annually

Rgds,
Anil
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Old 10th December 2010, 14:12   #105
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

I own a diesel Swift and am definitely not for differential pricing.

1. I don't see how the govt will benefit by implementing variable prices for the same thing! The benefit only goes to the bunk owner who would report everything as being sold to trucks and pocket the diff!

2. I live in Padmanabha Nagar, Bangalore and everyone knows who owns the petrol bunk(s) there. They have complete immunity and even direct complaints about quantity/quality of fuel from these bunk's go completely unnoticed. Anyone thinks these guys who cheat in broad daylight on something that has a checking mechanism will actually pay the govt higher price for the same thing when there is no checking mechanism in the first place!

3. I do not think that this variable pricing will foster diesel black-marketing, I think it will simply legalize the racket these very politicians control and I can clearly see the need for the people in power gunning for this subsidy - they are ones reaping the profits!

4. Whats to stop pump owners from eventually refusing to sell to our beloved lorry owners simply because a SUV owner gives them a bigger cut of profit (at least in the highly SUV-infested areas)? Particularly in times of diesel shortage for instance (bandh etc)? What would be the impact of this?

OT - Really want to reduce pollution? Good roads mean less traffic jams and therefore less fuel wastage and less of a national time-waste.

PS and OT: Would a diesel Swift really qualify as a polluting vehicle - I get over 19 km/liter of diesel

My 2c.
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