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View Poll Results: Should SUV owners pay market price for diesel?
Yes 235 64.56%
No 110 30.22%
I am not sure 19 5.22%
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Old 11th December 2010, 11:46   #121
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

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Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
On a lighter note, I think the police should just spot fine cars(both petrol and diesel) which only 2 or lesser occupants. This will bring down pollution for sure
The # of unpunished traffic offenses committed in Mumbai (Borivali-Goregaon) is so mind-boggling, that another means of traffic offense is simply unwarranted / impractical.
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Old 11th December 2010, 11:50   #122
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

The parity of fuel prices/registration costs all over india is a good concept but it's against the federal structure which india espouses.

I am not surprised that the people who are espousing it are mostly people from bangalore/chennai. After all these folks pay the highest prices in all of india i guess. Not sure if people from other states like say a Haryana or a kerala will like this idea . Infact i know that it will not work. Nobody likes to pay more.
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Old 11th December 2010, 14:34   #123
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

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Originally Posted by anilkalvani View Post
Well, if they charge in the way i proposed, even existing diesel car owners will be affected.

1. Less than 1499cc and Less than 4m - Rs. 1,500/month - Rs. 18,000 annually

2. 1500cc to 1999cc and Less than 4.5m - Rs. 2,000/month - Rs. 24,000 annually

3. 2000cc to 2499cc - Rs. 2,500/month - Rs. 30,000 annually

4. 2500cc to 2999cc - Rs. 3,000/month - Rs. 36,000 annually

5. 3000cc and above - Rs. 3,500/month - Rs. 42,000 annually

Rgds,
Anil
if something like this is implemented...i think the manufacturers will start charging 1 lakh premium on petrol models leaving aside the deseils!!!!!!!!
Jokes apart....i think it is high time they remove all these subsidies and price the product according to real market prices. also i would love to see most of the fuel taxes to go too!!!!i think with such a system, the prices of both diesel and petrol will be well lower than current rates!!! i may be wrong on this ....dont falme me!!!!!
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Old 11th December 2010, 21:22   #124
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Well I am for removing subsidy on diesel. We have recently purchased a SUV.. And I really won't mind paying 16 rs/liter more for it.. As if I am filling 10 liters of diesel I will pay 410 rs but it would be 600 rs without subsidy.. I mean come on, on a full tank of 50 liters we would be paying about 1000 rs extra.. What value does it have these days?? It is our country that is reeling under trade and current a/c deficit.. Wouldn't it be better if such subsidies are completely removed?? As their wouldn't be any burden on the government.. I mean the volumes of the OIL companies are so high that once all the subsidy on fuels is removed their share prices would surge.. Buy their shares from now on and you would be able to hedge..

I am sure if the govt decides to remove diesel subsidies for the car purchasing population it would have to do so for all the segments.. So what they can do is.. Completely remove the subsidies and while distributing UIDs just let the needy segment collect the subsidy in lump sump at the end of the year.. Or just reduce the tax equivalent to the extra diesel price they pay.. Use IT in all of this so it will keep a check on all the irregularity.. At the same time they should also set a limit upto which they can claim subsidy..


And it would end the petrol diesel dilemma.. For ex I have not even considered going for a petrol car as there is a difference of 16rs between diesel and petrol in Pune and on top of that diesel cars are fuel efficient.. And on top of that I have seen businessmen claiming tax deduction against fuel receipts.. SO that gets them petrol at 40 rs/liter and diesel for 28 rs/ liter approx..


I would even say that the government need not remove taxes on fuel as then people would still continue buying cars.. Putting a burden on our roads.. Then there is the extra expenditure for infrastructure and more and more pollution.. Even when petrol is 57 to 60 rs/ liter I have noticed that car sales have only increased.. Public transport should be improved and people should be encouraged to use it.. I mean my friends laughed at me when I told them that I went to collect my 17 lacs worth car by PMPML bus from a service station that was 25 kms away from my house and even walked a bit.. I mean when would people change their mentality..?? When it is all about showing off then why not even pay more for it??
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Old 12th December 2010, 22:22   #125
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

The entire subsidy approach is wrong.

Instead of subsidizing it for everybody and then asking a select 'ineligible' group to pay more, they should make everybody pay the market price and subsidize it for the 'eligible' group.

How do you implement this? Here's a fairly practical way.

Make UID mandatory for everybody (it's optional at present, which defeats the very purpose of the entire exercise), and categorize citizens on the basis of income. When we can have income tax brackets based on income, why can't subsidies be decided the same way?

That would make only the right set of people eligible, and it's relatively tamper-proof because it will be electronic.

I go to a fuel outlet, swipe my UID when paying the bill, and my eligible subsidy gets deducted from the bill amount. Simple enough? I know it's not 100% fool-proof, but should be much better than anything we have in place currently.
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Old 13th December 2010, 00:13   #126
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Forget SUV owner : why should any diesel car owner pay the market price ?

If diesel owners start paying market price, everybody will start feeling the pinch. How ?

1. Your airport drops will become expensive (remember most air port drop cabs run on diesel)
2. Transport will become expensive (taxis, cabs etc)
3. Running and operating diesel gensets will become expensive (affecting maintenance bills)
4. Mobile cos will feel the pinch since mobile towers run on diesel. Cell phone tariff's may go up
5. Many earth moving and construction equipments operate on diesel. Infrastructure and construction costs might go up.

The fact remains, petrol is essentially for cars : diesel for equipment / machines AND cars. Impossible to have differential pricing for diesel.

And don't tell me : there is nobody out there who likes to get "subsidized" goods from various contacts / relatives / friends whenever possible. I mean, I am sure there are folks out there who regularly buy "subsidized" items (especially the ones that give a high) from military canteen (using contacts) even when they have done NOTHING for their country on the battle field !!

Let Jairam replace all the government diesel cars with cars running on bio-fuels. Then he can think about targeting SUV owners
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Old 13th December 2010, 12:21   #127
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

@amogh

Regarding the things that you have said will become expensive, let me add that:
1. Airport cabs can always run on CNG
2. Intra-city taxis / cabs can also run on CNG like they already do in many cities. Only inter-state vehicles need diesel (as of now).
3. Diesel gensets are only a standby solution and they are polluting, in any case. It is up to the government to provide enough power before sanctioning buildings.
4. Same as (3) applies for mobile communication.
5. Construction will become expensive, but the difference won't pinch. Let me add that I am in the construction industry, too, having a good idea of what construction costs.

The whole point many of us (who are agreeing to pay market price for diesel) are trying to make is that we ARE WILLING to pay market price for diesel only *IF* the government sets up a mechanism where the buyer of diesel for farm / railway equipment is getting it subsidised whereas the car / taxi owner is not getting it subsidised.

The subsidy is not meant for me or for anyone else except the farmers and the Railways, perhaps. Why the Railways? Because they transport way more people / goods per litre of expensive (and polluting) fossil fuel than any of us do.

Last edited by architect : 13th December 2010 at 12:22.
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Old 13th December 2010, 13:00   #128
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

@Architect,

We all know that in the present times, technology in diesel engines have replaced the petrols in terms of FE. A 10 lac scorpio/safari will burn fuel far less than a similar petrol vehicle. So, you are consuming lesser fuel by investing more money on the vehicle which is not a bad thing for the country. If you price the petrol and diesel same, the very purpose of saving the money for someone who commutes 60km+ a day defeats.You pay up a high premium for a diesel car compared to its petrol sibling which means that diesel is helping us to save our own pockets. By paying up more, you are not only losing out on your savings but also filling up the BABU's pockets.

Right now, the situation in the country is, if you are a high commuter then you buy diesel. If not, you buy petrol with lesser investment. Its a win win situation.
Why is there a debate for something which can never happen in india.
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Old 13th December 2010, 13:09   #129
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
The whole point many of us (who are agreeing to pay market price for diesel) are trying to make is that we ARE WILLING to pay market price for diesel only *IF* the government sets up a mechanism where the buyer of diesel for farm / railway equipment is getting it subsidised whereas the car / taxi owner is not getting it subsidised. /.
Perfect.I suggest govt can create a diesel Relief fund. Then the people who are WILLING and EAGER to pay extra for diesel can contribute to this, and rest of us who arent eager and willing to pay for diesel can continue paying a lower price.
Looking at the percentage of people willing to pay, it will definitely solve this problem.I for one do not believe this subsidy is not for me. So many people get subsidies, so under what criteria should I not get a subsidy. After all construction builders who are doing very well get land much cheaper than they get to sell it for. Ditto for many industries who get tax breaks. So I also need subsidy
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Old 13th December 2010, 13:10   #130
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Boss - Railways should simply be "electrified" the way they are the world over.
And if we now plan to start a debate on Power Generation, I think some of my hard earned and paid Tax Money needs to go into creating Thermo-Nuclear/Nuclear Power Plants to serve our country's ever increasing demand for electricity.
This will go a long way to develop infrastructure as well and at least we will be spared the tragedy of horrible incessant power cuts in the hottest parts of the year and will slowly be able to take the power of "power" to our remote outlying areas and villages as well.

But the bottomline is that I want to continue enjoying my subsidized diesel - it is called saving something from the wreck - considering that poor wretches like me pay taxes and receive next to nothing in return while the evil politicos ride around in their fancy cars insulated from the world around them and I work 4 months in a year, just to pay my taxes to the bl****d government! the earnings of the remaining 8 months is what enables us to live to an extent in a reasonable way and make some savings for the future as well, since we dont have a social security or medical security system despite paying such taxes. And our dear pals the politicos are all busy buying coffee estates, land, property and allotting public money to temples and so on - but we dont even have proper roads, proper street lights, proper safety for citizens, decent law and order and bah! the list is endless as no doubt you would have surmised by now!


Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
The subsidy is not meant for me or for anyone else except the farmers and the Railways, perhaps. Why the Railways? Because they transport way more people / goods per litre of expensive (and polluting) fossil fuel than any of us do.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 13th December 2010 at 13:14.
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Old 13th December 2010, 13:47   #131
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

Industries generate employment at a large scale, that is why they get tax breaks.

Just wanted to clarify that.
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Old 13th December 2010, 17:22   #132
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

How the heck did I miss such an engrossing debate. Damn!

But now that I'm here, my 2 naya paisa:

I would be more than happy to pay the market price for diesel. Provided the Govt removes all subsidies from Petrol, Diesel and Kerosene. I mean absolutely all subsidies and reduce taxes to 12% standard across the country rather than double taxation at central and state level. And let it be marketdriven.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Boss - Railways should simply be "electrified" the way they are the world over.
Sirji, its still not. Let me tell you that even in a diesel locomotive, the engine is only used to produce the electricity to run the 3 phase Traction Motor. But the reason diesel is still used because on lot of cases its cheaper by more than 40% of the landed cost of electricity. The pollution of electricity may not be visible but thermal power generation has a much higher carbon foot print than diesel engines.

And as you said Nuclear Power is the way to go!


Quote:
Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
Forget SUV owner : why should any diesel car owner pay the market price ?

If diesel owners start paying market price, everybody will start feeling the pinch. How ?

1. Your airport drops will become expensive (remember most air port drop cabs run on diesel)
2. Transport will become expensive (taxis, cabs etc)
3. Running and operating diesel gensets will become expensive (affecting maintenance bills)
4. Mobile cos will feel the pinch since mobile towers run on diesel. Cell phone tariff's may go up
5. Many earth moving and construction equipments operate on diesel. Infrastructure and construction costs might go up.

The fact remains, petrol is essentially for cars : diesel for equipment / machines AND cars. Impossible to have differential pricing for diesel.
I agree but the best way forward is to reduce taxes across the board and increase the tax base.
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Old 13th December 2010, 17:43   #133
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

I am not sure though, but aren't the diesel car/SUV owners already paid for the subsidy.

Why are diesel cars more expensive than their petrol counter parts?

Is that just because of the technology? Or because the tax charged by the govt for using the subsidized fuel?
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Old 13th December 2010, 20:32   #134
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

If our infrastructure is good, I will give up my diesel SUV

For high mileage Diesel is economic due to subsidy if that is gone it will make no sense for many. Cheers!
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Old 13th December 2010, 20:41   #135
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Default Re: Should SUV owners pay market price for Diesel?

no reason to discount diesel for any personal vehicles - not just SUVs. Implementation will be tricky - but Govt sure should come up with something pretty soon.
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