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Old 2nd December 2010, 15:58   #61
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@harishpr,
Nicely written articles.
But sometimes I get the feeling the problem lies somewhere else. These days there are lots of Linea ads in TV.
If someone is ready to invest amount >9 lacs and he finds Linea good (machinery, handling etc etc. Accessories, they provide almost all, so we won't get there)compared to other cars, why would he/she not buy it?

I am going to be flamed for this, but I am quite OK with it.

Is the Linea that good a car as we see in various reviews? Or is it an over hyped vehicle just because it carries a FIAT badge?

Let's take the case of Honda. It is an overpriced machine, this is agreed by most. But still, that's the one which sells the most in C-segment. Isn't it because Honda churns out a quality car?
Verna,SX4,Fiesta and Linea offer all the feature that Honda has. The mentioned cars offer some additional features too.

While sticking to Honda,I would like to give one more example of how quality can attract buyers. The middle variant does not come with alloy wheels and fog lamps (there's not even provision for fogs in the front bumper). If one needs fog, Honda says change the bumper and if one wants to go for alloys, shell out another 40K+ which will take OTR of high end H to the other side of 11 lacs.

Honda and Fiat have equal snob value. So that cancels out.

What I am trying to say is, people are willing to shell out money if they see quality. Are we reading biased reviews about Linea in various magazines/channels etc?
Do we have a car lobby system working similar to what we hear these days about media?

Warms Regards,
BR

P.S:- I had a chance to drive T-jet Linea. I admit I cannot understand the nitti-gritties or highly technical aspects of a vehicle and I am a very defensive driver. But after driving T-jet, I found my SX4 still better (~20 horses < Linea)

Last edited by GTO : 2nd December 2010 at 18:04. Reason: Quoted post has been deleted
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Old 2nd December 2010, 16:15   #62
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A new version of Nano is the urgent need of the hour,

Vento is taking the fight to the City,

Aria's were just not available in enough numbers, likely to be much higher in Dec,

Odd that Fortuner was not at max capacity of 950 qtty? with pending orders, Innova dropped from 4k +

Optra still sells..

Superb highest in segment as usual,

Linea and Punto is a sad story,

Fabia doing better than earlier, but not too great.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 16:19   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMATMO View Post
0 passats !! only 3 camrys!!! that is even lesser than 14 sonatas, i think its high time both of these sedans get replaced with new generation vehicles
B6 passat is a discontinued Model now, so No sales.
Wait till early months of next year to see all new Passat (B7 i guess!!). Going by reaction in European Market, That will be the car to watch out in that segment.

Also what is intresting to note is that Volkswagen now sells more car than Honda by a margin of 500+ and is very close to Toyota. If you add to that 900 odd nos. of Fabia Being produced at the same facility, one can say that Volkswagen is going great amongst premium car makers.

Good for a late entrant in Indian market!!
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Old 2nd December 2010, 16:26   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KumaravelS View Post
I have captured the raw data in xls format to have a sort of analysis.

I have classified the models into Entry Hatch, Midsize Hatch, Entry Sedan, Midsize Sedan, Premium Sedan, MUV & Jeep, SUV & Much More. Classification is based on my perception. Again some models might be cross classified in my perception.

GTO (& other pros), if you think there is a better classification, let me/us know.
hyundai Sonata comes in the segment of accord and camry which is the premium sedan ,not with linea and honda city

also civic ,corolla and cruze come in midsize sedans ,not premium

Last edited by AMATMO : 2nd December 2010 at 16:29.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 16:37   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbkr1212 View Post
@harishpr,
What I am trying to say is, people are willing to shell out money if they see quality. Are we reading biased reviews about Linea in various magazines/channels etc?
Do we have a car lobby system working similar to what we hear these days about media?

Warms Regards,
BR

P.S:- I had a chance to drive T-jet Linea. I admit I cannot understand the nitti-gritties or highly technical aspects of a vehicle and I am a very defensive driver. But after driving T-jet, I found my SX4 still better (~20 horses < Linea)
Nice points. Yes it is clear that this forum has a lot of Fiat fans. However, I would disagree with your point on the reviews being biased towards Fiat. If you look at GTOs review, it clearly points the pros and cons of Linea holistically.

Yes I also agree that Honda city clearly outsells a Linea at higher price points as consumers see greater value in that. So what is eveident is that a small base of fans in this forum is not the representation of the larger mass of Indian consumers who look at other parameters like A**, brand image, space, resale etc where Fiat lags behind.

Also I have driven the Tjet myself and own an SX4 as well. I clearly find the Linea to be a better performer than SX4 (Mine is the non VVT version though).
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Old 2nd December 2010, 16:42   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMATMO View Post
hyundai Sonata comes in the segment of accord and camry which is the premium sedan ,not with linea and honda city

also civic ,corolla and cruze come in midsize sedans ,not premium
I did thought so, but while preparing misrepresented.. Corrected and attached again.
Attached Files
File Type: xls Nov 2010 India car sales.xls (36.0 KB, 578 views)
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Old 2nd December 2010, 16:59   #67
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Despite of so many new launches in the recent past in the Entry and Mid Size hatch segment, The WagonR still remains the No.2 Best seller after the good old Alto.

The new platform with an increased leg room for the rear passengers by compensating on the Bootspace has still so many takers for this car that never sells on looks. Way to go.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 16:59   #68
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Interesting figures. Just today i read in TOI that auto sales are showing 30% month over month growth and most car manufacturers dont have excess inventories and dont intend to offer any year end discounts, but these numbers show a different story. Other than Maruti and Hyundai most others are losing volumes. Few keys things to notice

* Vento's increasing volume seems to have biggest impact on city, high time someone gave the overpriced car a challenge, I am happy
* high time Ford comes up with a more modern C seg sedan, Fiesta is not cutting it anymore
* come what may, i20's success story goes on
* not much improvement on Altis nos after diesel launch, goes on to say that ppl spending 12+lacs on there car care about the size of the heart
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Old 2nd December 2010, 17:15   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
Nice points. Yes it is clear that this forum has a lot of Fiat fans. However, I would disagree with your point on the reviews being biased towards Fiat. If you look at GTOs review, it clearly points the pros and cons of Linea holistically.

Yes I also agree that Honda city clearly outsells a Linea at higher price points as consumers see greater value in that. So what is eveident is that a small base of fans in this forum is not the representation of the larger mass of Indian consumers who look at other parameters like A**, brand image, space, resale etc where Fiat lags behind.

Also I have driven the Tjet myself and own an SX4 as well. I clearly find the Linea to be a better performer than SX4 (Mine is the non VVT version though).
@nurni76,
I also have a non-VVT version.
As I mentioned, I am not adept at judging the car technically. But drive-wise, I found my SX4 better (for me, not generalizing at all).
You said you found Linea a better performer. The word performer is the key word.
It's very subjective.

Also, whoever is reviewing, eventually they are all human beings. For humans, it's definitely not possible to keep the bias out when making a judgment. It's easy to say we are all 100% objective in our opinions, but practically quite not possible.

From GTO's various posts I have gathered that he has definite liking (I am not calling bias) towards Hondas, Fiats and Tata cars. (not including Ferrari,Merc and others ). And if you read carefully other reviewers posts, they also have specific likes and dislikes for cars.Once in a while, their liking can come up in their reviews too.

They will also be buying cars like others. And they will go for the one which they like most,albeit with compromises because of the soft corner they have towards the brand/car.

GTO and other mods,
Please don't infract me. I was not blaming yours or other moderators reviews. Just putting some thoughts on how we and our minds work when we work.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 17:26   #70
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FIAT sales are 1025 or 1023?

The passenger vehicles business reported a total sale and distribution offtake of 16,365 nos. (15,340 Tata + 1,025 Fiat)

Fiat

Linea : 301
Punto : 699
Palio : 23
500 : 0

TOTAL: 1023

FIAT statistics: http://www.carsitaly.net/fiat-car-sales_india.htm

Last edited by Bluefiat : 2nd December 2010 at 17:30.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 17:37   #71
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cant believe captiva still selling 100 units a month? common chevy is a useless carmaker.. they spoil the fantastic cars with thier production and service issues.. wish captiva belonged the toyota it would be outselling fortuner by marginss!
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Old 2nd December 2010, 17:55   #72
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its great to see that Vento is posting such great numbers. But what is wrong with Nano. When i saw a figure of 506 in todays newspaper, i thought there must be some printing mistake, but i was wrong. There has to be some supply constraints.

Also its good to logan sales improving, But with Etois launched, i don't know how long it will do. One funny thing I noticed that nobody bought VW Passat but Three ultrarich People bought all hand made Pheaton.

Last edited by kkg : 2nd December 2010 at 18:10.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 19:01   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMATMO View Post
clearly Hyundai is beating honda in premium suv segment and this is happening for the first time since both the manufacturers started selling Suvs.i know the numbers are nothin compared to fortuner and endeavour but still its an achivement to beat honda at that kind of pricing.last month they sold 2.5 the number of crv. its quite clear now that if Hyundai brings in fresh range of cars they can beat Honda . its not because of the high pricing of honda either because as honda has been pricing its vehicle higher than hyunai ever since both came to india . i20 and sante fe have really proved itself to be more prefered over honda in respective segments , i believe the price difference between verna and city is same as that between i20 and jazz but the preference is opposite
Beating by just 4 cars is not such big a deal. Last month would anyways be a aberration being the launch month whr OEs generally push cars in dealerstock and show as sales.

Infact if one wants to compare Santa-fe, We should compare it with all "SOFT-ROADERS", i.e. city SUVS. In that case CAPTIVA, Mitsubish, CRV and Santafe is the category. Santafe clearly is being outsold in softroader segment evenafter being the newest entry.

Last edited by anu21v : 2nd December 2010 at 19:03.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 19:20   #74
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Default FIAT Sales

I have been a keen observer of FIAT Sales.

Why is that a new-er entrant like Polo or Vento (which are good cars) able to beat Punto or Linea in sales? Well, FIAT better have their thinking caps on, Puntos sales figures are not even a mentionable fraction when compared to its contempararies in the same segment. About Linea less said, better.

I personally do not think sponsoring a couple of cricket matches will help them with the sales numbers they wish for!

Anyways, I just hope things change for them soon.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 20:26   #75
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'Chaubeji chhabbe ban ne gaye, dubbe ke dubbe rah gaye'-is that what is happening to Tatas?

Tata's USP was the 'more car per car' slogan. It sold lots of Indicas and Indigos.

They tried to go upmarket first with Vista, which they made a little bigger and offered the quadrajet engine for it. Vista with TDI engine continued to be value for money, but Tatas shot themselves in the foot by not offering higher end variants for it and offering quadrajet at much higher price, planting the suspicion in people's minds that it was an inferior engine. In the meanwhile, they had nothing to offer the taxi segment. They have mended things somewhat by introducing indica turbomax, again with the same mistake, namely no higher end variant for the general public.

With Manza, they continued the Indigo USP to some extent, but the higher spend on improving the build, increased the price to a level, where at least some poterntial Indigo customers did not find it VFM.

They have again shot themselves in the foot, by withdrawing the Aura variant from both the Vista and the Manza, putting simple things like rear power windows and rear wash and wipe, out of reach of a number of their potential customers.

I am a staunch Tata customer. Had a 2000 Indica DLX for almost ten years and then bought a two and half year old Indica V2 DLX turbo. Would have gone in for a new Vista, except for the fact that the basic quadrajet itself was more than five lakhs on the road, and was doubtful of TDI because of price difference+no Aura.

As I see it, Tatas are pricing themselves out of the market they created, and their attempts to move to a slightly higher end market are not bearing fruit, because they are not meeting aspirations of that segment.
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