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Old 2nd December 2010, 12:19   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I cannot agree, weight does not have any direct corelation to safety rating. Its the strength of the metal and how its put together with right crumple zones that determine the safety aspect. Not just the weight or metal gauge.

There are many debate's on this including this (Which are India's safest cars?) So its not as simple equation after-all when it comes to safety.
Of course I am not suggesting a 'direct' correlation but you can't discount it altogether as well. Tell me one sedan worth its salt in Euro NCAP and of the same size as Etios having weight below a tonne?
I don't think Etios is using exotic materials like aluminium which is lighter and stronger. Toyota has also not mentioned the passive safety aspect anywhere including their website.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 12:37   #62
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I think the forte of this car is that it will provide a Toyota that is affordable, fuel efficient, has large trunk storage space. It's not a car that someone will buy for looks, nor for the interiors.

Have tentatively booked one- the V version (i.e. Second to the top most variant). The top most is 40k+ more only for DVD stereo, leather wrapped steering wheel, side skirting and some chrome stuff. Not worth it IMHO especially considering that the red and black seats just don't go with the rest of the car. Apparently the car will be on display in Delhi this weekend, and TD models will be available end of this month or start of Jan. Will take a final decision then.

BTW in this video it looks quite nice - again nothing spectacular - but plain and nice. With some customization it has the potential to look quite banging.

Also, aren't Toyota cars generally designed on the plainer side? I have always thought the Corolla is very plain. The Altis is of course much more eye catching, but when compared to Honda cars, Toyota sure looks bland. So is it really surprising to people that the Etios isn't super curvy and swank?

Last edited by vebmetal : 2nd December 2010 at 12:40.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 12:49   #63
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i hate the chrome boot opener placed at the centre of boot even in vxi

BTW - jaggu nice coverage Kudos !
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Old 2nd December 2010, 13:05   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshkishore View Post
Thanks for pointing this point out invidious. Echo is a lesser know product of Toyota in this part of the world.
In 2005-6 while working in Oman, I had been given a run down Echo.

The Etios is surely a development from the same mould.

The USP's of the ECHO that would hold true for the Etios were:

1. Unearthly reliability. I really hoped the car would break down so that I get a newer car. But she kept going on even after 400k on the odo. And Service was dirt cheap.
2. Superb fuel efficiency. It had a 1.3 motor then. Dont be surprised if it beats even the hatchbacks hands down.
3.Quite nippy to drive in urban speeds. Light Car and a motor that is very happy at the red line. Rubbery gear shift was a sore though!
4. Suprisingly spacious for its small dimensions. Good Boot space also.

Demerits:
1. Looked horrible. Back then we used to call it too Korean. Please keep in mind that back then, the Koreans used to make real ugly cars.
2. 3 Digit Speeds were real scary. The car was highly susceptible to cross-wind. But the car was capable of doing 190kmph on the speedo. I was stupid enough to try.
3. It was the cabbies favorite. And mine was white too.

Just few pics of the ECHO. You will know where the Etios got the looks from.
Attachment 462382

Attachment 462383

Attachment 462384
Now that you mention it, it was a reasonable drive. My car had to be sent to the garage for a few days and I had to rent the Echo to make do. It was really frugal on the fuel for sure. Am not sure about the Korean comparison because by then Hyundai had started making some really snazzy looking cars like the Tiburon - at least in the American market. From what I understand this car was launched because the Koreans were eating into the Japanese market with their significantly cheaper cars and their 10 year/100,000 mile warranty. I am pretty confident it was not a 1.3 in the American market but a 1.5 engine.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 13:17   #65
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I am very sure that this car will do good numbers. Why? The Toyota badge is supposed to be a status symbol & although I can find many a reason why I will not buy one, there will be double the no. saying why one should buy it.
I have one grudge here - WHY IS NO ONE SAYING 'I WILL NOT BUY THE CAR ONLY BECAUSE IT HAS THE CONSOLE IN THE CENTRE'. I recall so many ppl on this forum giving this as the sole reason for the Indica Vista. Are we really fair in our judgement?
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Old 2nd December 2010, 13:37   #66
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The Etios seems to be great value for money compared to the competition. Yes, some parts of the car does look low rent and frankly I the instrument cluster in the center. However, I feel this car will sell as majority of the buyers want a Low cost to buy and operate vehicle which is practical for the Indian family. The Etios fits this bill perfectly.

@Maverick: I hate the instrument cluster in the center and I swore, I would never consider a vista because of this. However, having done the comparisons and the math, the VFM of Vista is too good to pass up and I have grudgingly decided to live with the center instrument cluster.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 13:44   #67
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Nice report on this thread! Thanks for the detailed writeup and pictures. To me, the looks are not upto the mark (sides looks like Logan, no offence). Interiors too, I felt something is misplaced (may be the center speedo/AC vents etc.) somewhere something is not right.

Price is good, and will give some tough competition for the segment leaders IMO.

Hoping to see lot of Etios on the road.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 13:45   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshkishore View Post
In 2005-6 while working in Oman, I had been given a run down Echo.
The Etios is surely a development from the same mould.
Just few pics of the ECHO. You will know where the Etios got the looks from.
So much for it being “World’s First, India’s First”. Looks horrible, like a mash between a Corolla and a Logan.

As someone mentioned, they've stripped a few 'feel good' features, which might not be a good idea. Eg. the single wiper might be accepted in the Nano, but not in a sedan unless backed up by technical wizardry that ensures great windscreen coverage.
The wheel wells remind me of the first gen Indicas. Tiny wheels making the wells look too big.
Minimalist wheel well protection is plain silly in Indian slushy, muddy, waterlogged-in-the-rains conditions.

I thought the outside was pretty ugly, and then I saw the pic of the dashboard. Good grief!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarmarishi View Post
I dont like the Etios too much but I think its great value for money at that price and it being a Toyota.
I'd say Priced Well but maybe not Great Value. I'd say Great Value is still the Manza.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarmarishi View Post
I personally feel it is a good thing for cheaper cars to come with fixed head rests as most people in India buying their cars (first generation ownership) do not know why a headrest exists as there is no education given. Thye simply remove it as they feel that its a hindrance for people at the back seat as they cannot see more clearly. Trus me I have seen and interacted with a lot of educated people on this one. But I guess the higher end variant should have come with adjustable ones.
Serious? That's like saying the lower models shouldn't get airbags even as an option, cos they won't know that not wearing a seatbelt could cause it to kill them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarmarishi View Post
What people need to understand is that this design has been in Toyotas for ages now. Their Yaris and Vios and Echo have been coming with a centre dash for generations. Its more like Nano copied it. So, I dont see why one should compare it to that. They have always had centre dashs for their cheaper cars.
That is hardly the point. People criticised the Spark/Vista/Nano centre console, and will criticise the Etios for the same reason - They don't like it. I'm happy people are being generally unbiased in their criticism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
On one hand when a Tata Motors does this kind of thing it is called "Value engineering" and "engineered to meet a cost target".
When toyota does it is called "compromising"
why?
1. Single Wiper - I can't say about others, but that's cost cutting a lil too much. It doesn't even have the benefit of looking good like the Merc's does, and I'm sure it wouldn't wipe 88% of the windscreen, as claimed by Mercedes
2. Looks Ugly. In fact, fugly
3. Under tyred, or too big wheel wells
4. Incredibly horrible looking centre console. Yes there are a few good bits like the steering wheel, but if they were doing a centre console, then at least make it look good? Also, the competition doesn't have a centre console, not even the Manza
5. Thin seats to make good rear leg room. Not sure if the bolstering is good, but will they hold up over time? Can't say, but the buyer can't keep a car for five years and then decide - purely speculative point in the decision making process
6. Super light-weight => thin sheet metal => light brushes will dent the metal. Also, safety wise a heavier car will fare better in a collision between two cars. I'm not impressed that most hatchbacks are the same weight. But not sure if this will be a factor for most buyers

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I think the concept of an affordable Toyota is a very good thing indeed. And I am personally very happy that a lot more Indians will get to own and use a Toyota car since the company has such a good reputation for reliability overall.
Me too, cos Toyota has a reputation of awesome A.S.S and experience and quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I for one am keenly looking forward to the Etios Hatch. I am sure that it will be streets above say, the Tata Indica or Vista or Ford Figo or Hyundai I10 or whatever.
Let the proof of the pudding be in the eating of it, not in the speculation of whether it is likely to be a "burnt offering" or not!
Bit of a contradiction there. If the proof of the pudding is in the eating, we'll wait until the Etios hatch is launched to decide if it is in fact streets above the competition. IMHO, it will Not be. At par, more like (better in some, worse in others).

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
To put this in perspective, WagonR is considered to be one of the lightest car in the Indian market and one of flimsiest built too. The Liva matches the weight inspite of being bigger and having a larger 1.2 liter engine.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I cannot agree, weight does not have any direct corelation to safety rating. Its the strength of the metal and how its put together with right crumple zones that determine the safety aspect. Not just the weight or metal gauge.
There are many debate's on this including this (Which are India's safest cars?) So its not as simple equation after-all when it comes to safety.
Not quite. The crash test is done with the car being the only moving object (NCAP, AFAIK). In a real world crash, with both vehicles moving (worst case here, head on or off-set), the heavier car's momentum will cause more damage to the lighter car (thereby increasing the impact time and providing an additional cushion to the occupants of the heavier car) and reducing the impact time and increasing the deceleration of the lighter car (thereby causing more damage to its occupants). But yes, it is definitely not a simple equation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
I think the forte of this car is that it will provide a Toyota that is affordable, fuel efficient, has large trunk storage space. It's not a car that someone will buy for looks, nor for the interiors.

+1

Have tentatively booked one- the V version.

Congratulations!

Also, aren't Toyota cars generally designed on the plainer side? I have always thought the Corolla is very plain. The Altis is of course much more eye catching, but when compared to Honda cars, Toyota sure looks bland. So is it really surprising to people that the Etios isn't super curvy and swank?
Again, the point is that people are complaining because they will be the consumers and they have every right to expect better. Just because they're Toyota, they can't continue to make ugly looking cars. I mean the Corolla and Camry are bland tending to ugly, but this one just takes the cake.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
I have one grudge here - WHY IS NO ONE SAYING 'I WILL NOT BUY THE CAR ONLY BECAUSE IT HAS THE CONSOLE IN THE CENTRE'. I recall so many ppl on this forum giving this as the sole reason for the Indica Vista. Are we really fair in our judgement?
+1, though I did think people are being a wee bit more honest than expected, saying that they didn't like the centre console

Last edited by VeluM : 2nd December 2010 at 13:49.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 13:48   #69
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The Etios looks much better on the exterior when compared to the Dzire. The only let down is the dash and the centrally-placed speedo.

I think it beats the Dzire on all other factors.

As regards the seat and door trim colour, I think it matches the exterior colour as I remember seeing a blue trim on Overdrive. This is a good move, IMO. I'm yet to see it in person though.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 13:58   #70
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@Shankar Balan,
I didnt mean that.
All of us would agree that there is a certain amount of expectations that you associate with a Toyota product(read class,refinement etc etc)
Looking at the pictures,I got an impression that Toyota has cut corners to make it affordable.

Having said that,I still would love to own a Toyota.Its worth every penny.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 14:05   #71
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Talking about safety so much. What's the euro NCAP rating of the Tata Manza, Honda ANHC and Maruti Dzire. That's the target market so let's compare apples to apples.

And the car is definitely NOT based on the Echo. Please go take a look at Vios sold in Thailand. The Etios is nothing but a trimmed down version loosely based on the Vios. Infact the platform is the same as the Vios.

Toyota had clearly stated they would not get the Vios as the car would be priced too high in the Indian market, I guess probably where the ANHC is priced hence numbers would be limited. Looks like they took the Vios as the starting point and stripped it down wherever possible to reduce manufacturing costs. Even the interiors are very similar.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 14:24   #72
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Value engineering and engineering to a cost target are bound to have some kind of fallout.
I dont think though, that Toyota will risk any dangers when they introduce themselves in this new segment in which they've not been present before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hallik9 View Post
@Shankar Balan,
I didnt mean that.
All of us would agree that there is a certain amount of expectations that you associate with a Toyota product(read class,refinement etc etc)
Looking at the pictures,I got an impression that Toyota has cut corners to make it affordable.

Having said that,I still would love to own a Toyota.Its worth every penny.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 14:25   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Talking about safety so much. What's the euro NCAP rating of the Tata Manza, Honda ANHC and Maruti Dzire. That's the target market so let's compare apples to apples.
Its still not an apples to apples comparison. Atleast I can give the benefit of doubt to these cars for being heavier.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 14:26   #74
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Great report Jaggu.

The Etios J IMHO is meant solely for the Taxi market. The absence of power steering will not make a big difference on a bantam-weight sedan like the Etios, especially for cab drivers.

Im thinking if the Etios is actually the Echo but restyled and stripped down. Unless they had utilised an old platform like Ford did with the Figo, this price would have been hard to arrive at. It lacks lots of features but that is another story altogether.

Contrary to many here, I somehow like the dashboard design but not the glovebox open/close lever. It looks out of place. The centrally mounted instruments reminds me of the ones on the Previa (Toyota's mini-van one level above the Innova) and I have always wanted the same on my car. While the Previa's instruments are all digital, the Etios is analogue.

The Etios is a no-nonsense car. Those looking for a medium to get from Point A to B will be the most delighted. Such people want a reliable mode of transport and dont give a damn about anything else. So two categories satisfied (cabbies too with the J). The Etios is certainly better than the Dzire but Im not sure if it can beat the Manza, leave alone Vento or Linea.

With that ground clearance on one of the photos, the Etios looks like a jacked up lowrider! What were Toyota thinking?

With respect to safety, the Etios cannot hold a candle to the Linea or the Vento (and several hatchbacks). Its light weight (does it have any metal in it?) and my speculation of recycling an old chassis go against it. Since the Etios will not make it to any country that presently come under Euro NCAP (or any other major test region), we might not get a realistic star rating. I can see a Toyota smiling here. They somehow got through this one.

What I would like to see now is the change in market dynamics. Nissan (V-platform sedan), Ford (new Fiesta sedan), GM (new Aveo/Sail) and many others (let's not forget the present contenders Maruti, Tata) will be watching with a lot of interest as their new cars get ready to battle it out in
2011.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Talking about safety so much. What's the euro NCAP rating of the Tata Manza, Honda ANHC and Maruti Dzire. That's the target market so let's compare apples to apples.
I can safely predict that the Swift's rating should hold good for the Dzire as well, which means a reliable 4-star rating (old Swift). Honda City and Manza are suspects though but since Tata intends to take the Manza to Europe, it should be good.

How are you so sure that the Etios is not based on the Echo? Apart from the fact that Echo is LHD?

Last edited by designersf : 2nd December 2010 at 14:35.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 14:27   #75
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Ooh this is interesting.

Will I buy one? No!

Will I recommend it to people? Yes!

This sedan at this price point makes excellent sense for non-enthusiasts. Toyota reliability and the safety package laden pack priced under 6 lacs is a great deal in my opinion. The turning radius would make it a decent city drive. If the ride is soft and plush at city speeds, even if it is a boat on the highway, this will sell big numbers.

Its a personal opinion, but this looks way better than the Dzire.

Good work Toyota!
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