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Old 12th April 2012, 10:09   #46
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
After losing its crown to BMW in 2009, Mercedes slips down to # 3 position in the Indian luxury car segment.

Article link.

This was expected as the newer Mercedes line fails to impress buyers when compared to competition. But, as per a post by Ajmat (somewhere on the forum), the profit margins earned by Mercedes per model does keep it in the lead.
Audi is number one in China, and they are trying hard to do that in India. If only BMW let go of the RFT and have an option for tubeless with a spare, they will forge far ahead, as the rest of the package is excellent.
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Old 12th April 2012, 10:19   #47
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

And once Q3 is released, Audi should take the pole position in Indian Luxury brands. I don't have numbers but a fair share of BMW sales should be X1, and Q3 will go directly against it - and even probably be the winner there.

Good going VW!
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Old 12th April 2012, 10:36   #48
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

Audi coming number 1 is possible with the correct pricing for Q3 (Its a CBU & that could be a damper) . The only thing i dont like about Audi is that all thier cars/SUVlook exactly the same. Absolutely no difference! Thats the reason VW also seems to be going the same way in maintaining the family look.

BMW is much better & from the reactions of the new 3 Series, i guess the A4 & C is going to face the heat in 2012. The X1 sales are shocking since it looks like an overgrown hatch and downright ugly in my personal opinion. Guess the snob value is the reason for its stupendous success.

That way Merc is the best of the lot where each series have a different family look! Still absence of a entry level luxury car is going to cost them thier second position in 2012. The interiors too look dated.

Somehow my favorite in this segment is the Jag. It absolutely looks gorgeous and even when standing still looks like its on the move. With correct pricing & more cars on the road, i am hoping it joins this elite group too. The Evoque unfortunetely has a waiting list across the world and if at all they manage to bring it as CKD, it should help them make more inroads in india.
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Old 12th April 2012, 10:56   #49
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Audi is number one in China, and they are trying hard to do that in India. If only BMW let go of the RFT and have an option for tubeless with a spare, they will forge far ahead, as the rest of the package is excellent.
To my knowledge its BMW, Audi and then followed by Merc.
In fact this is the over all order including US, China etc.
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Old 12th April 2012, 13:37   #50
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

I am happy Merc is lowest in tally. They well deserve it. I just completed my purchase of entry level luxury sedan and happily ended up with BMW 320d exclusive edition (yes, ownership thread is due as soon as I register the car).

Merc dealership's (T&T Motors, Worst Merc dealer in country) attitude was pathetic. I had to follow up several times to get a test drive, that also after escalating to Merc India. And after that they lied on their offer which left a bad taste.

Audi can definitely do better, they need to get rid of CVT gearbox from A4 2.0 TDI and also tweak power beyond 140ish. And yes, Q3 pricing would definitely a game changer for them.

BMW is rocking, they will continue this feat with new 3-series launch and new features on F-10 5 series, again they cant demand a premium at this time so pricing will be crucial for new 3.

Last edited by rishi_kapoor : 12th April 2012 at 13:40. Reason: grammer
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Old 12th April 2012, 19:40   #51
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

While this article is about real numbers it's only temporary, and a lot of scenarios are not well put, and while it's good to brag about positions do remember this is only Q1, and yes maybe this year Audi might just get to number 2 over all with the launch of new Q3 and facelifted A4, MB has no new product in the volume segment this year besides the B which is far late into the year, but for Audi to over take BMW is quite difficult at least in the next few years, Also for Audi to over take MB was easy, They have the newest product lineup in terms of A4/A6/A8 and Q5 against which MB has no product as the GLK is not made in RHD, but yes it is at #2 and I believe it will stay at that place until perhaps 2014 when the new Mercedes C, A, BLK, etc make their Indian debuts,

Coming to the real point of overtaking BMW, Its close to impossible as BMW soon will begin it's offensive with the new 3, and a lot is being done to get huge volumes out of it, you will also soon see the X1 facelift on our shores, and yes while the X1 is not exactly beautiful, nor is the Q3 and the way I see the cars in this segment is they are glorified hatches and the word SUV should truly not be associated with them, but yes Q3 should be able to beat the X1 if Audi gets aggressive enough to launch it at highly competitive prices and also at a later point add business editions etc.

The new 3 is going to be ruling the segment, and just like the 5 will be the king of its class, in terms of quality etc. I know a lot here think Audi's Interiors are better quality, but do understand some of us also think they are just over done, see the BMW 5, has the back of it's head rests stitched in leather so is the centre console which is only plastic in Audi, anyways don't want to get into this debate what I am saying is BMW is equally good in terms of it's interior quality in their class,

Also up coming are BMW 1, 3GT, 5 with its yearly updates keeps the lead, face lifted 7 which MIGHT finally go into the CKD route, and then the Z4 facelift,

For Audi we have the Q3, A4 Facelift, A3 sometime in 2013, Q5 facelift, and later the new Q7 again in 2013 only, by then we will also in months have the BMW X5 all new model.

Mercedes will take some time but I believe they will be back with a bang once their new A, C, S, ML, GL, BLK, CLC, etc. come in,

Trust me we might see positions swap only based on model launches or else I believe these 3 are going to go head to head for a while and only the right product at the right time will decide the position for that year, but Mercedes-Benz will be back with a bang in the next 24 months, wait for the S, it will be nothing the competition can match, 7 is going to major tech changes for it's ride and features to try counter the S.

Now Globally, yes Audi is Number 1 in China, but they were early in that market and BMW and MB are catching up a lot faster than Audi is catching them up in the USA, and I believe MB globally too will be a huge star once their entire last decade of rubbish product mix is completely overhauled.

Lastly, do remember these car makers have a very small gap between 1 2 and 3, so its just that at a point when a car maker has a new product they get the lead, only few times when they goof up a product it does not help much, Mercedes R-Class for example, we finally will see it being discontinued globally in a phased manner. At the end of the day their fight for position 1 will only help us get better products as each push the limits.

Regards,
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Old 12th April 2012, 20:10   #52
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

I completely agree with the point around the Q3 and facelifted A4 followed by A3 should be game changers for Audi (As long as they are priced appropriately) and my personl experience when i recently had been to Mercedes to enquire about the C class was that while the Customer Service and Sales was the Best amongst all three i visited, their product really was not worth the cost they have put it at.

simple example of the LED that's installed on the Merc outside just like foglamps looks cheap IMHO and the desperation to sell the car was completely evident in their pitch as they were ready to give the new 2012 Launched car at a discounted price or the prior model with Front grille changed to the new one at an even more discounted price with warranty, freebees etc.

While the deal was absolutely mind blowing, the product was sad, no space to comfortably sit, For the Auto hold one needs to press the break in a certain way were some of the many issues i encountered with it.

Mercedes may be coming up with an upgrade in models in 2014, however for now they definitely seem to be behind and their cars look dated in my personal opinion which means they need some serious design changes.
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Old 13th April 2012, 00:15   #53
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

I found this statement by Debasis Mitra, sales & marketing director of Mercedes Benz India rather high headed, 'We are not selling commodity but luxury. Numbers are not the prime focus today.'

If it was a Jaguar representative making that statement, I would still understand, but is Mercedes thinking that they are far superior in the segment as compared to a BMW and Audi? Granted that the BMW Corporate Edition loses out on a few features but it's still got oodles of class and luxury, example, the rain and light sensor package, electric sunblinds, PDC, runflat tyres etc. Overall, an excellent value for money package in the segment without compromise on luxury.
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Old 13th April 2012, 07:32   #54
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BMW has reported their best quarter in history with highest worldwide sales. Around 450,000 vehicles IIRC.

Source - BBC News
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Old 13th April 2012, 09:26   #55
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Default re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
This was expected as the newer Mercedes line fails to impress buyers when compared to competition. But, as per a post by Ajmat (somewhere on the forum), the profit margins earned by Mercedes per model does keep it in the lead.

I just want to add, that Mercedes assemble their engines in India and therefore there margins must be pretty good. BMW and Audi have not begun this - correct me if I am wrong. The increased duties have not been passed on to the customer.

Consider this and the aggressive discounts given by BMW and Audi signifies that they have been going after volume. The new Audi A6 is offered at a discount already. Mercedes only recently have started offering discounts

What is hampering Mercedes is that some dealers are 'old school" but that is changing with more aggressive internal competition. More than 1 dealer in big cities.

Another aspect is that Mercedes focus is not just on cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
, Also for Audi to over take MB was easy, They have the newest product lineup in terms of A4/A6/A8 and Q5 against which MB has no product as the GLK is not made in RHD, but yes it is at #2 and I believe it will stay at that place until perhaps 2014 when the new Mercedes C, A, BLK, etc make their Indian debuts,

Coming to the real point of overtaking BMW, Its close to impossible as BMW soon will begin it's offensive with the new 3, .... the word SUV should truly not be associated with them, but yes Q3 should be able to beat the X1 if Audi gets aggressive enough to launch it at highly competitive prices and also at a later point add business editions etc.

The new 3 is going to be ruling the segment, and just like the 5 will be the king of its class, in terms of quality etc. Also up coming are BMW 1, 3GT, 5 with its yearly updates keeps the lead, face lifted 7 which MIGHT finally go into the CKD route, and then the Z4 facelift,

For Audi we have the Q3, A4 Facelift, A3 sometime in 2013, Q5 facelift, and later the new Q7 again in 2013 only, by then we will also in months have the BMW X5 all new model.

Mercedes will take some time but I believe they will be back with a bang once their new A, C, S, ML, GL, BLK, CLC, etc. come in,

,

Mercedes have screwed up big time in the lower segment product planning and it will cost them. The E and S and forthcoming SUV's are the only competitive models. The C is going to be outclasssed by the 3 but I wonder whether a lot of 520d prospects will be conquered by the 320d!


Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianGuardian View Post
I found this statement by Debasis Mitra, sales & marketing director of Mercedes Benz India rather high headed, 'We are not selling commodity but luxury. Numbers are not the prime focus today.'

.
In other words, we are not offering cheap variants and discountign heavily - typical in a commodity situation
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Old 13th April 2012, 10:58   #56
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Default Re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

In fact do look at the new A-Class, Goes on sale world wide in 2nd Half of 2012 it is the best looking in it's segment and it will create a huge stir and the new B-Class, which I am not fond of is already doing huge numbers do see Daimler's press release,

SUV's again has taken them to a new heights with the new ML / GL and G and the Facelifted GLK, but here's the problem ML will be out sold with the next X5 as the ML has not taken a huge leap in design and besides interior quality little that can be liked about it, but GL is excellent.

New SL, is a star product, while people will take time to get used to it's looks it's ride quality is being compared to Rolls etc.

S-Class will always be undisputed, gets its global launch in June - July,

C-Class will be outsold by the 3 until the end of 2013 but then the upcoming C is going to be one hell of a fighter, and with Mercedes's weight loss it should be equally dynamic and still be comfortable.

Yes MB messed up the last decade but to say they have "screwed up big time" in the lower segment is a huge error in judgement. A and B are just the start, it's variants BLK, A roadster, A sedan etc will add a lot of boost, so will the new CLC, No one has done as much as MB is doing to get back and the future has never looked better for MB and it's fans.

Do take a look at the A-Class below :

New A-Class

Also on a side note, Mercedes-India has massively raised their car prices, some CBU models now are as expensive as they were On-Road earlier before the budget,

Mercedes-Benz India Pricelists

Regards,

P.S : Debasis Mitra is someone whose words should always be taken with a pinch of salt, for him to claim that is the most absurd reason, because in the real world MB has it's lower priced products too, in the C, E, S and the ML Corp. Ed. and in terms of discounting also they do a lot more then BMW for it's E and C. He just has no clue about Mercedes and it's current issues, it's been a while he is here from Toyota but looks like he still has not understood Mercedes is at the final leg of few of it's bad products which is costing them and do look at the numbers it's marginal between 1, 2 and 3!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Mercedes have screwed up big time in the lower segment product planning and it will cost them. The E and S and forthcoming SUV's are the only competitive models. The C is going to be outclasssed by the 3 but I wonder whether a lot of 520d prospects will be conquered by the 320d!

Last edited by S350L-E240 : 13th April 2012 at 11:20.
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Old 13th April 2012, 11:05   #57
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Default Re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

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Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
In face do look at the new A-Class, Goes on sale world wide in 2nd Half of 2012 it is the best looking in it's segment and it will create a huge stir and the new B-Class, which I am not fond of is already doing huge numbers do see Daimler's press release,,
I agree, was referring to the past. The old A class, though innovative was a bag of trouble reliability wise
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Old 13th April 2012, 11:35   #58
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Default Re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

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Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
In fact do look at the new A-Class, Goes on sale world wide in 2nd Half of 2012 it is the best looking in it's segment and it will create a huge stir
I don't think the A-class is the best looking in its segment. I think the Volvo V40 (also introduced at the Geneva motor show) looks much better. Also, the Golf 7 will be introduced at the Paris motor show this year and I keep hearing good rumours about it.
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Old 13th April 2012, 11:52   #59
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Default Re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

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Originally Posted by IndianGuardian View Post
I found this statement by Debasis Mitra, sales & marketing director of Mercedes Benz India rather high headed, 'We are not selling commodity but luxury. Numbers are not the prime focus today.'

If it was a Jaguar representative making that statement, I would still understand, but is Mercedes thinking that they are far superior in the segment as compared to a BMW and Audi? Granted that the BMW Corporate Edition loses out on a few features but it's still got oodles of class and luxury, example, the rain and light sensor package, electric sunblinds, PDC, runflat tyres etc. Overall, an excellent value for money package in the segment without compromise on luxury.
I think that he is trying to say that sacrificing margins will impact the brand perception in the long run. Benz has enviable level of brand recognition as a rich man's car. The corporate edition variants might get the numbers but diluting the luxury image will be a disaster, because if its space and features you want, the Superb is a better buy than the E.

A Jaguar representative making that statement will be out of his mind, Jag is nowhere in the league of BMW or Merc in terms of technology, their engines are outsourced and the platforms are quite old, they are more like the volume Maseratis. Merc has plenty of problems in its lineup which disappoint potential customers(some of them are on this thread ), but they seem to have decided on margins/exclusivity. BMW has managed to take on Benz in the sedan space with aggressive marketing and their service package options everyone raves about. The C class needs a CE which looks a lot better than the old Corsa interiors, the Classic/basic whatever looks terrible even in the glossy photos available on their website.
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Old 13th April 2012, 11:55   #60
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Default Re: BMW India maintains its lead over Mercedes: EDIT- Now Audi overtakes as well

Is MB hampered by non-availability of a crossover in the lower segments? They have to do completely with sedans while BMW and Audi dont.
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