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Old 14th September 2008, 08:33   #1231
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GTO,

Sorry but like I said, your arguments, cogent and compelling as they always are, still don't add up. Yes the palio is a lost case, but yes, correlation does not in any way imply any causation. The fact is that the 1.1 is a completely wrong product (sluggish/low FE) for the segment, offers little except by way of build quality. Ditto for MJD - zero thought like you say. Its decent, but the gold standard today is Swift, which it doesn't hold much against from an TCO perspective. Put ok ok products with inept marketing and we have the perfect failure. I've spent enough time in Tata-Fiat dealer in Gurgaon to say that enough average Joes with families have come, but been discouraged away from Fiat.

And you know what GTO, its all good on paper that GM launched a new brand, but you need to see the barely educated rich landed villager types that are rife in Gurgaon - they are also quite clear that its an upgraded matiz with better engine and superb VFM. They got the spares pricing bang on, won the FE shootouts, aggressive promotions and the result is there to see - despite the awareness! They say yes, its an cosmetic/engine upgrade but the basic car was good, decent FE and well engineered. This is where they selectively leverage memory and say that today Tavera/Optra/Aveo have given them a base load for service centers all over. So no worries. And the NCR sales (even of UVA) are a testimony.

Yes, the presence of flagship models helps (I'm sure that's the logic the duds at Fiat thought by launching the 500!), but the complete ineptness in marketing and continuing past ills (spares price/availability) is what ails Fiat. Its not that people have forgotten about Fiat - its just that their previous memory is reinforced. And the MJD has no advertising/branding about its virtues (good FE/lovely ride/highway behavior). That is the problem!!
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Old 14th September 2008, 12:35   #1232
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Waiting period now for spark. It seems spark has now gained ground. 15000 order already in hand .
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Old 15th September 2008, 13:08   #1233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Put ok ok products with inept marketing and we have the perfect failure.
Quote:
And the MJD has no advertising/branding about its virtues (good FE/lovely ride/highway behavior). That is the problem!!
Like I said, Fiat themselves realise that the Palio is now a lost cause and is saving itself the effort. Why throw good money after bad? Don't forget that the Palio slid at a time when it had very strong marketing support (2 - 4 years post-launch). So lets stop blaming the Palio's failure on the lack of marketing activities. Fiat has got the facts in order...it's about time that we do too. No amount of full page TOI ads and mileage drives are going to get the Palio anywhere.

And for all the virtues you speak about, consider that the Palio has been around since 8 years. Competition has caught up and surpassed the Palio product-to-product and value-to-value. The 1.1 is woefully underpowered, while the Vista MJD / Swift MJD are far more modern alternatives to the Palio MJD. I like the Palio's ride quality, but take a spin the Vista....it is as comfortable if not more. Do you think that the discerning Indian customer will spend their hard-earned money on the Palio when there are clearly better / more modern options from far more trustworthy brands? On a product that they have terrible memories with? Fat chance. The residual values say a lot of what the market thinks of the Palio. Marketing doesn't have an ounce of significance there.

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They say yes, its an cosmetic/engine upgrade but the basic car was good, decent FE and well engineered.
You left out a crucial aspect : Killer pricing. The Spark only really started taking off after their blow 'em away deals. Look up my initial review of the Spark where I mentioned that it was overpriced. The Spark is a thoroughtly refreshed product being marketed under an entirely different badge. You simply can't make a direct comparison with the Palio; too many different factors in play here.

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Originally Posted by bkm View Post
Waiting period now for spark. It seems spark has now gained ground. 15000 order already in hand .
Read between the lines : They mention 15,000 bookings in a "couple of weeks". The Spark is doing respectable numbers yes, but GM should not get carried away by the Thank you ads from Maruti.

Last edited by GTO : 15th September 2008 at 13:10.
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Old 16th September 2008, 15:03   #1234
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You would be able to see it, if only you cared to look beyond the NHC. LOL.

It can't happen with the SX4 because you can't duplicate the keys of an i-Cats enabled car like you would do for the NHC. While your NHC keys can be duplicated by the neighborhood key maker, its not possible for SX4. So to steal an SX4, a thief would need to have either one of the 2 keys that originally came with the car.
It can happen if the thief has access to a tow truck. Just lift the car and tow it away!!! If a thief is determined, he'll get the car one way or the other.
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Old 17th September 2008, 13:31   #1235
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OK, he will tow the car. And then ? Leave it in his garage?
He needs to be able to use it, right ? For which he would need the key, won't he ? Unless he took the trouble of towing it only to let it lie in his driveway.
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Old 17th September 2008, 20:24   #1236
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stupid question but why is Volvo not in this list ?
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Old 18th September 2008, 17:51   #1237
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stupid question but why is Volvo not in this list ?
Ditto for Audi! The numbers are probably too small to be reported?
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Old 18th September 2008, 17:57   #1238
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Ditto for Audi! The numbers are probably too small to be reported?
I see some single digit entries inthe report already. Are they smaller than that too, maybe negative/buy back?
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Old 19th September 2008, 12:38   #1239
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I have posted August 2008 sales figures here:
vasudeva - DOMESTIC SALES
Vasudeva, could we get a break-up between petrol and diesel sales for the respective cars,where applicable? Is information available at that level?
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Old 19th September 2008, 13:46   #1240
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Post Region wise sales YTD till July'08

city wise, model wise, month wise sales ytd til July'08, sorry for the delay and not updated, has to work this report manually so takes really a long time to update
Attached Files
File Type: xls Indian Car Sales YTD 2008.xls (2.60 MB, 638 views)
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Old 22nd September 2008, 09:26   #1241
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Originally Posted by pulsar7778 View Post
city wise, model wise, month wise sales ytd til July'08, sorry for the delay and not updated, has to work this report manually so takes really a long time to update
hey pulsar thanks for the report,
but there are no luxury care makers here.?

any particular reasons ?

cheers
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Old 25th September 2008, 15:52   #1242
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Looks like the Fiesta is not doing too well beause the new sharp looks are not to everyones liking.
Happy for Verna though, the car is finally deserving the attention she needs.
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Old 26th September 2008, 16:32   #1243
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Any update on CV (commercial vehicle industry)
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Old 27th September 2008, 15:26   #1244
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Pardon my ignorance, but aren't numbers for M800 and Alto published?
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Old 3rd October 2008, 10:45   #1245
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apparently the sales figures for all giants are good.
Maybe the festive season.

Guys can we have the figures please.

cheers,
jay
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