Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st January 2011, 14:37   #31
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

I call such people keyboard monkeys.
The entire green cover around Delhi(Aravalies), has been destroyed by mining, and keyboard monkeys are wondering if a few thousand more diesel cars are to blame for the rising pollution.

It also suits the political class. The middle class overall is dimwitted.
For example you tell a middle class guy, "so and so ate 1000 crores, he is a bad man, but you saved 1000 INR by illegal tax evasion, and you are responsible for loss to country, you are the reason of corruption".. there is 99% chance that the middle class guy will believe that and go into depression, and come to the conclusion the he needs to pay back 1000rs to get the country back on track.
Similar case here. If cars cause 1% of pollution, and 99% of pollution is due to other activities, you just tell the dimwit that his car driving is the cause of pollution and environmental degradation. This way you will have atleast a class of people not bothering when you give permission to cut a million trees.

So either this author is part of the dimwit clan, or the other clan who wants to move the focus from the real problem to the minor problem.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 14:43   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
n.devdath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,960
Thanked: 1,714 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Coming to the cost and "diesel subsidy misused" factor, all of us know where these subsidies are actually diverted to and how.
In fact, there was a nice article in the TOI a few days ago which said that though oil prices are back to 2008 levels, fuels are 40% costlier in India.

And these so called activists and oil Cos lament their so called losses loud.
n.devdath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 15:05   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,954
Thanked: 1,591 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Can we focus on comparing the polluting effects of diesel and petrol instead of jumping up and down over everything else under the sun?
amitoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 15:05   #34
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,162
Thanked: 3,757 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by kala View Post
Social activist Sunita Narain in todays TOI :

(Speaking about diesel being more polluting and diesel car owners benefitting from the subsidized price of diesel)

Paying for diesel in subsidy and health - The Times of India

Comments ?
She is the one who led the (some say) Maruti lobby against (Tata) Indica ages ago, and got goo on her face from the SCI. Also,she got mud on her face for false reporting of the Pesticides in soft drinks.

She deserves credit for introducing CNG public transport. Activism is fine, but be fully informed about what you speak on. She is obviously not.

Remove all subsidies on all petroleum products - kerosene, LPG, Diesel. I have never seen any of the environmental lobby (incl. her) ranting against kerosene adulteration of diesel!! Why??
sgiitk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 15:06   #35
BHPian
 
Daewood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 943
Thanked: 223 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
In fact, there was a nice article in the TOI a few days ago which said that though oil prices are back to 2008 levels, fuels are 40% costlier in India.
I too read that article. They missed the crucial point, i.e in 2008 petrol prices were not decontrolled, so price was less.
At one point of time crude price was $160 per barrel!!!
Yet we were paying only Rs.50, which would be the correct price if crude was around $60.

The latest buzz is Hero Honda is planning to launch diesel bikes.

The best solution to this Diesel vs Petrol price disparity is to stop making petrol vehicles.
Then nobody will have to debate or complain or feel overcharged.

Last edited by Daewood : 21st January 2011 at 15:11.
Daewood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 15:11   #36
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 173
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Remove all subsidies on all petroleum products - kerosene, LPG, Diesel. I have never seen any of the environmental lobby (incl. her) ranting against kerosene adulteration of diesel!! Why??
This is a Superb point.One look at some of the two wheelers(Especially the old scooters) and the notorious Auto wallas,you know what adulteration is all about.It can suffocate you to death if you get stuck in between 2 such autos.
hallik9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 15:24   #37
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 97
Thanked: 20 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post

then by the same logic, the least polluting vehicles ought to be given a 90% subsidy and zero import duties. Let us see this happening to electric vehicles like the Reva, or hybrids like the Prius.

!
Hybrids like Prius is not that environmentally good as it portraited to be.

Please refer Toyota Prius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - life cycle energy usage.
The report comes out with a conclusion that
"Hybrids Consume More Energy in Lifetime Than Chevrolet’s Tahoe SUV"
Lifetime Energy includes the energy required to produce, run, dispose a vehicle.
We, users, are only involved in the running of the vehicle.

All said, Govt would not bite the bullet by decontrolling diesel. It is already paralyzed with skyrocketing Inflation, particularly in food.

Any report, villianising SUV and Premium sedan owners, would be a great feed to media.

Last edited by KumaravelS : 21st January 2011 at 15:27. Reason: Punctuations for readability
KumaravelS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 15:40   #38
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Chetan_Rao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,927
Thanked: 3,434 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

If you consider a vehicle's carbon footprint, hybrids (in their current form), are possibly worse than the worst fuel guzzler you can find.
Chetan_Rao is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 15:46   #39
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 139
Thanked: 10 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

the article uses wrong tools but i feel suggests right solution!!

i am not aware of 'who' this activist is but i certainly feel the differential pricing on fuels (petrol vs diesel vs auto-lpg) used for 'personal' transport vehicles should be aborted.

we can not simply increase the diesel price as everybody is aware of the of the effect it can have on already soaring inflation. this can only be achieved gradually over a period of long time. till then to compensate the diesel subsidy they can tax the diesel vehicles more and pass this to the state owned oil companies.

where as the price control for Auto-Lpg is can be fairly direct (discounting illegal usage of domestic lpg). this should be done immediately.


as far as the alternative fuel/power sources - there are none that are practical as of now.
somspaple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 16:16   #40
BHPian
 
Screwdriva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London/ Bombay
Posts: 496
Thanked: 348 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

I hate to say this, but this article is spot on.

1) Despite advances in diesel technology, Indian diesel cars do NOT match their foreign counterparts in emissions ratings. This is because Indian diesel is not ultra low sulphur, which prevents the use of particulate traps/ filters.

2) While driving a Audi Q7 3.0 TDI is better than driving an Audi Q7 4.2 FSI, it doesn't make it cleaner than driving something more environmentally friendly like a Skoda Yeti.

3) Instead of focussing on Diesel, I believe the Indian government should tax ALL guzzlers and use the funds to subsidize environmentally friendly fuels like CNG/ Electric cars

4) Indian Diesel has a VERY low Bio Diesel component. This negates one of the biggest benefits of diesel fuel - its ability to burn almost anything.
Screwdriva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 16:59   #41
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 97
Thanked: 20 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by somspaple View Post

where as the price control for Auto-Lpg is can be fairly direct (discounting illegal usage of domestic lpg). this should be done immediately.
Auto-LPG is already decontrolled. In fact, Auto-LPG was hiked a week before Petrol hike.
KumaravelS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 17:20   #42
BHPian
 
burnt.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 247
Thanked: Once
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Can we focus on comparing the polluting effects of diesel and petrol instead of jumping up and down over everything else under the sun?
Precisely. People are missing the whole point here.

The crux of the report is that diesel is more polluting. The present pricing policy is encouraging people to make a choice that is more polluting.

And with the exponential increase in vehicles, I'm sure their contribution to the rediction in air quality is substatial. In Bangalore, you can immediately feel that difference when you step out to the less congested areas.

PS: I know of a policeman who developed chronic respiratory problems within 5 years of shifting to traffic dept. That was in Trivandrum. Imagine what the situation is in our big cities.
burnt. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 17:43   #43
BHPian
 
Yeldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kochi
Posts: 719
Thanked: 644 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwdriva View Post
I hate to say this, but this article is spot on.

1) Despite advances in diesel technology, Indian diesel cars do NOT match their foreign counterparts in emissions ratings. This is because Indian diesel is not ultra low sulphur, which prevents the use of particulate traps/ filters.

2) While driving a Audi Q7 3.0 TDI is better than driving an Audi Q7 4.2 FSI, it doesn't make it cleaner than driving something more environmentally friendly like a Skoda Yeti.

3) Instead of focussing on Diesel, I believe the Indian government should tax ALL guzzlers and use the funds to subsidize environmentally friendly fuels like CNG/ Electric cars

4) Indian Diesel has a VERY low Bio Diesel component. This negates one of the biggest benefits of diesel fuel - its ability to burn almost anything.
1) Who is to blame for the poor quality Diesel? Vehicle manufacturers? Owners? Why can't the oil companies stop using the batch plugs?

2) Frugality is always welcome. But what about taking the new low floor buses, or car pooling? These would be even better than the Yeti.

3) Higher taxes based on FE is a good suggestion. Something similar to the "Gas Guzzler Tax". But then wouldn't it be fair to demand a tax (fine) on rash drivers who burn fuel irresponsibly even in econo- box sedans? Or even better, penalize drivers who take out cars for purposes other than "necessary" or "deemed necessary"?

4) Bio Diesel? What about apprehensions on the price rise of food grains etc., if large stock is diverted to Bio Diesel production?

Last edited by Yeldo : 21st January 2011 at 17:48.
Yeldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 17:48   #44
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Currently, New Delhi
Posts: 423
Thanked: 92 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

Every car is polluting, one way or the other & there should be no disparity whether it's diesel or petrol the engine is running on.

SAAB demonstrated in the 9-5 (?) that the gases which were expelled out of the car in London traffic, were actually cleaner than the gases which were going in the air intake. Modern diesels, especially the European ones, with much stricter norms, don't pollute as much as your very own abused Indicab/Taxicab.

The existence of humans itself is detrimental to nature in an indirect way & rather than shifting the blame to cars (which can't speak for themselves), we must make it a point to plant some saplings in our locality for every vehicle we buy/have bought.
JustCause is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2011, 17:59   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,306
Thanked: 2,188 Times
Default Re: Social activist speaks out against diesel cars

She should mingrate to Lebanon where diesel vehicles are banned and be happy. If the oil companies can't come up with low sulphur diesel, Car companies can't meet the European norms.. ITS NOT OUR fault.

People like these just need attention.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My White Stallion - BMW X3 20D xDrive. A Q3 owner speaks araje Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 81 1st September 2017 11:51
Social Media for Cars bigautobuff The Indian Car Scene 19 12th November 2015 19:26
An XUV500 speaks: Kochi to Vizag through the hinterlands dhanushmenon Travelogues 31 26th April 2015 23:00
Indian National in Pakistani death cell for 35 long years - Comes back and speaks out bigman Shifting gears 46 8th March 2008 03:15
The hidden social cost of vehicles msdivy The Indian Car Scene 33 29th March 2007 16:33


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:02.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks