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Old 21st January 2011, 13:45   #16
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

I think manufacturers get better margins and make more money by selling Petrols variants. Diesel variants get introduced because they are forced to do because of competetion and market pressure. Manufacturers know that a customer who wants to buy a diesel will still buy it. So lets create a disparity between Petrol and Diesel so that those who are indecisive about Petrol/Diesel get attracted towards Petrol because of additional features for lesser cost.
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Old 21st January 2011, 13:48   #17
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

What is the cost of diesel engine vis a vis petrol?
If its 70K then there should not be any removal of features and people still perceive that diesel costs 70k more than petrol.
If its say 1.25 lakhs, then to have a difference of 70k, the mfg guys need to cut down on the various features.
Also for petrol only brand, perhaps ABS of diesel needs to be re designed for heavier loads and what not.


And with such policies, there will be more step m treatments...
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...esel-cars.html (Social activist speaks out against diesel cars)

Last edited by subscrive : 21st January 2011 at 13:50.
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Old 21st January 2011, 14:20   #18
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Tell me about it GTO. A relative was contemplating on buying the Ritz Diesel VDi with ABS. The car costs somewhere upwards of Rs. 6,00,000/- with ABS. Team-bhpain Amey picked up a Ritz Petrol ZXi for around Rs. 5,32,xxx/- sometime in December (with discount).

The Ritz Petrol ZXi (K12) has:

1) ABS + Airbags
2) Stereo
3) Keyless entry
4) Alloy wheels
5) Rear defogger
6) Rear wiper + washer
7) Steering mounted audio controls
8) Tilt adjustable steering
9) Height adjustable drivers seat
10) Parcel tray
11) Cigarette lighter


The Ritz diesel (ABS) misses all of the above and costs roughly a lakh more!

Last edited by moralfibre : 21st January 2011 at 14:28.
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Old 21st January 2011, 14:23   #19
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

One thing that I can decipher from the GTOs observation.

Its only the Japs who are doing the differentiation, US and Euro car makers are not giving the step motherly treatment.

But I guess, thats because unlike the Japs - they have too many cars which overlap between themselves. But the US and Euro car makers are having the luxury of not hvaing overlapping models.
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Old 21st January 2011, 14:34   #20
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The only diesel automatics under 20L happen to be Scorpio, Cruze and Endeavour 4x4, and that is only because they don't have petrol variant.
You forget the best gearbox technology; the VW & Skoda DSGs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theragingbull View Post
With the Skoda Laura it's exactly opposite. The 1.8 TSi is devoid of all feature comforts and comes in just one base variant. While the 2.0TDI gets auto transmission and what not!
LOL! Good point, Skoda must be the only one who's giving a petrol engine the cold shoulder. A fully loaded Laura 1.8 TSI + DSG will definitely have its own fan following.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
But slowly this should change as more and more diesel variants come into the market. Eventually you will have diesels spec'd out like petrols and mfg's making do with lower margins
I hope so. At the end of the day, the only one thing that can straighten out errant manufacturers is competition. Look at Maruti! One would find it hard to believe that Maruti was anti-diesel just 10 years back, and was fighting tooth & nail to restrict the sales of diesel passenger cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by issigonis View Post
But you have the Europeans as referred to by GTO (Fiat, VW et. al) who think differently. I also think that the Japanese ( all cars refereed to by GTO by a strange coincidence happen to be Japanese) are not as confident about their diesel engine technology as the Europeans and hence tend to focus less on them
Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Its only the Japs who are doing the differentiation, US and Euro car makers are not giving the step motherly treatment.
Good point! It's indeed the Japs & Koreans who are giving diesels step-motherly treatment. None of the Europeans do. Perhaps, there is a cultural side to that? After all, diesel is huge in Europe, and really what European manufacturers do best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Tell me about it GTO. A relative was contemplating on buying the Ritz Diesel VDi with ABS. The car costs somewhere upwards of Rs. 6,00,000/- with ABS. Team-bhpain Amey picked up a Ritz Petrol ZXi for around Rs. 5,32,xxx/- sometime in December (with discount).

The Ritz Petrol (K12) has:

1) ABS + Airbags
2) Stereo
3) Keyless entry
4) Alloy wheels
5) Rear defogger
6) Rear wiper + washer

The Ritz diesel (ABS) misses all of the above and costs roughly a lakh more!
Thanks for sharing. The Ritz is yet another example.
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Old 21st January 2011, 14:42   #21
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Tell me about it GTO. A relative was contemplating on buying the Ritz Diesel VDi with ABS. The car costs somewhere upwards of Rs. 6,00,000/- with ABS. Team-bhpain Amey picked up a Ritz Petrol ZXi for around Rs. 5,32,xxx/- sometime in December (with discount).

The Ritz Petrol ZXi (K12) has:

1) ABS + Airbags
2) Stereo
3) Keyless entry
4) Alloy wheels
5) Rear defogger
6) Rear wiper + washer
7) Steering mounted audio controls
8) Tilt adjustable steering
9) Height adjustable drivers seat
10) Parcel tray
11) Cigarette lighter


The Ritz diesel (ABS) misses all of the above and costs roughly a lakh more!

This is exactly what i went through some months back. I did not want to give up on so many features just to get a diesel. Ended up buying Ritz Zxi.
Infact, we have Swift Zxi also. Same logic applied there as well.

I think Ritz and Swift ZDi have enormous potential in the current environment. But Maruti does not see it somehow!
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Old 21st January 2011, 14:49   #22
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by naveenvenkatesh View Post
This is exactly what i went through some months back. I did not want to give up on so many features just to get a diesel. Ended up buying Ritz Zxi.
Infact, we have Swift Zxi also. Same logic applied there as well.

I think Ritz and Swift ZDi have enormous potential in the current environment. But Maruti does not see it somehow!
Think about this. DZire has a ZDi variant but not Swift and Ritz. Why is it so hard for Maruti to understand the market requirements? There isn't even a defogger on the VDi Swift & Ritz. It would be a shocker if the new Swift will have a ZDi. I hope it does but knowing Maruti, it might not.

Obviously, no one at Maruti goes through T-BHP forums.

Last edited by fuel_addict : 21st January 2011 at 14:50.
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Old 21st January 2011, 15:01   #23
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

True many diesel owners want fully loaded cars and they are unable to find one with all the bells and whistles. the equipment list is pathetic in swift and ritz diesels and is better in i20 and punto

The Dzire has Zdi trim, with an 8 months waiting period of course, which doesnt make sense.

The diesels with their higher average monthly running would be a place where most of drivers will spend a lot of time in, some creature comforts are highly appreciated. May be the manufactures think that they want to keep a perception of a low cost car and highest diesel trim levels may not be suitable for a VFM proposition.
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Old 21st January 2011, 15:06   #24
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

I would like to think why not make ABS and Airbags compulsory for all the cars or may be at least offered by car manufacturers as optional if they cannot be incorporated as standard with all the cars.

I am not sure whether this would be possible here but it would be great if a law or legislation is passed stating that ABS and airbags to be provided optional by all car manufacturers for all variants.
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Old 21st January 2011, 15:20   #25
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Well the optimist thinks, the car mfg's kit the petrol to make it a lot attractive than its diesel.

I have made a decision, not to buy a car without ABS/Airbags. So if I were to choose the Swift all over again, my only choice would be the Zxi or something else.
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Old 21st January 2011, 15:24   #26
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

For the simple reason that Indian customer is unnecessarily brand loyal, especially when it comes to the Japanese car companies.

A typical Indian customer will buy a Maruti/Honda/Toyota blindfolded, even if it is overpriced and/or cramped and/or featureless, even when a cheaper and/or practical and/or feature rich model is available from other car maker.

As long as the customer doesn't abandon the brand which continues to dish out featureless variants, the car company could care less about the needs of the customer.

Rohan
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Old 21st January 2011, 15:25   #27
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theragingbull View Post
With the Skoda Laura it's exactly opposite. The 1.8 TSi is devoid of all feature comforts and comes in just one base variant. While the 2.0TDI gets auto transmission and what not!
IIRC when the Octavia was launched the price of the Diesel and Petrol versions was exactly the same. Obviously most people went for the Diesel Variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet.fever View Post
I would like to think why not make ABS and Airbags compulsory for all the cars or may be at least offered by car manufacturers as optional if they cannot be incorporated as standard with all the cars.
I am not sure whether this would be possible here but it would be great if a law or legislation is passed stating that ABS and airbags to be provided optional by all car manufacturers for all variants.
I doubt that will happen. Manufacturers will only provide all features on Diesel Variants if people refuse to buy the lower spec diesels. This again is unlikely to happen.
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Old 21st January 2011, 20:26   #28
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Quote:
the Octavia was launched the price of the Diesel and Petrol versions was exactly the same
that is correct but the diesel variant had a few features knocked off, one of them being rear disc brakes if i am not wrong.

the companies know that if they put a frugal diesel motor in a tin can it would probably sell itself while a petrol car has to cash in on the long list of goodies to roll off the showroom floor.
all thanks to the difference between the price of petrol and diesel.
and to majority of car buyers the running costs are more important than features.

that is what maruti is doing with the diesel variants of the swift and the ritz and both of these have set the sales charts on fire using diesel.

Last edited by superboy44 : 21st January 2011 at 20:32.
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Old 21st January 2011, 20:51   #29
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Exactly true. I recently bought a Ritz ZXI for my grandfather as he needs a tall car for ease of ingress and egress. I do about 2000kms per month and a diesel car is best suited for my kind of running. However for me safety features such as ABS and Airbags was a must and thats the reason for which i opted for a petrol car and not the diesel Ritz.

Moreover I live in a Taluka Place of Gulbarga district of Karnataka and here it is very difficult to sell a used petrol car. More than 95% of cars in and around my place are diesel driven and nobody buys petrol cars here. The persons buying a petrol car here is considered insane.

Last year I also bought one of the first i20 diesel. I bought the top end Asta Option with Sunroof. Now the top end i20 diesel does not come with the rear disc brakes, sunroof and side and curtain airbags. In fact the diesel i20 is more powerful than the petrol one and needs all the safety features or more than the petrol variant.

Very strange and difficult to understand the mentality of the Indian car buyer and car manufacturer.
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Old 21st January 2011, 20:53   #30
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Absolutely agree. To add insult to injury these manufacturers even call the models the same (vague letters like Z, V and the like). It's only natural that a buyer assumes they have the same trim levels, only to get a nasty shock! And ironically the features everyone seems to compromise on all have to do with safety. Not acceptable.
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