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Old 28th January 2011, 08:57   #91
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Default Another line of thought!!

Why can't we order the trim in which we wish the Car to buy?

I want rear defogger/wash wipe, air-bag, ABS.

Rest I can very well fit in after market depending on my whim and fancy, yes am willing to wait for 2 months.

Is somebody listening?
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Old 28th January 2011, 09:10   #92
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
When i20 CRDi was launched, ALL the Diesel variants had rear discs + ABS. Magna was the lowest Diesel variant, and it came with all four disc brakes - this was chopped to add a chrome lip, FATC, 6-speed gear box and blue lighting in the control panels for the 2010 variant.

Its true that i20 at least has an option of having ABS in the higher Asta variant - but then, Hyundai did do away with sunroof and a few others from the top end for Diesel variant.
True,the BS3 i20 magna came with 4 discs+ABS EBD combo.But the BS4 magna doesnt have a FATC.BS4 magna variant just has the bare bone basic features.

the top end ASTA diesel was stripped of sunroof and 4 additional airbags.Wonder what made them do so.Infact the BS4 ASTA version was cheaper by 5K compared to BS3 at 8,40,000 On road in bangy even though it had more goodies.The diesel ASTA(O) which comes with sunroof and curtain airbags which was available only in BS3 was priced at 8,88,000 on road
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Old 28th January 2011, 09:37   #93
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

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Originally Posted by veyron_head View Post
I am not too sure, but I guess it has something to do with the 'Price Perception'.

What I mean is, Maruti has made every effort to maintain the price of all its hatch backs around or below 6 lacs, making it look at bit of value for money when compared to other premium hatches like Jazz. If they were to offer a ZDI on the swift, it could go well beyond 7 lacs (atleast in a place like B'lore) . Now this would not only beat the price/value perception created by Maruti, but also encourage the customer to think of other segments, say a sedan or an SUV, when they make a buying decision.
That logic makes sense when you just launch a car and are trying to gauge the market reaction. With the Swift Diesel which is selling in huge numbers & 3+ years after it was launched, Maruti can definitely look at the ZDi version for those willing to spend more for the added features. Their current attitude is due to the fact that the car is selling well.
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Old 28th January 2011, 09:38   #94
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Default Re: Another line of thought!!

frankly my friend there are quite a number of us who feel this way
but no manufacturer apparently has EARS or they are simply and conveniently pretending to be DEAF!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Why can't we order the trim in which we wish the Car to buy?

I want rear defogger/wash wipe, air-bag, ABS.

Rest I can very well fit in after market depending on my whim and fancy, yes am willing to wait for 2 months.

Is somebody listening?
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Old 28th January 2011, 11:45   #95
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
I think there should a rule / regulation making the essential security features mandatory.
I am afraid, making airbags mandatory on passenger cars (including cabs, which are almost always diesel) will cause more deaths on the road! How many cabbies drive with seatbelts on? When they are involved in a collision that makes the airbags go off, we all know what is going to happen!
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Old 28th January 2011, 12:09   #96
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Smile Re: Another line of thought!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Why can't we order the trim in which we wish the Car to buy?

I want rear defogger/wash wipe, air-bag, ABS.

Rest I can very well fit in after market depending on my whim and fancy, yes am willing to wait for 2 months.

Is somebody listening?
Cars are usually manufactured using mass production methods, and hence they have a limit to which variations may be allowed, else overheads will hit the roof.
Unless manufacturers design critical components as plug and play (something like the components of an assembled PC), anything custom made would translate to higher costs and this will not include just the price of the accessories. There are machine setup costs and labour involved as well. These costs would render the project useless. Would you buy a custom made swift VDI at Rs 10 lakh?

If there was sufficient idle capacity, such custom made options could be considered. But they are running at more than full capacity now, so this option is out of question.

My 2 cents.
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Old 28th January 2011, 12:10   #97
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

I think it should be the cost factor. Mostly Electronics is going to be common for both petrol & diesels (except the ECM & other specific stuffs) Definitely the features would roughly increase the cost by 5 to 10%. But manufacturers should give an option to the buyer if he/she is ready to spend that extra.
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Old 28th January 2011, 13:06   #98
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Irrespective of the statements made in interviews about social responsibilities, there are a very few companies who truly care about it. Most of them are here to just make profits. Most companies listed by GTO who overcharge for the diesel models like Maruti, Hyundai, etcetera have better levels of service and network than the ones who don't - Fiat, Ford and the rest. While the 1st category makes money by overcharging for a diesel product, the 2nd does so by minimizing cost on service. Nissan wants to do both - Micra has a pathetic petrol engine and a stripped down yet overpriced diesel accompanied by poor levels of service. Most bhpians (including me) are all for the 2nd category but till the gap on service quality does not close in substantially, they're all set to lose in the long-run (I drive a Punto and I am pretty sure that I won't be buying a Fiat again). Tata will be an exception because its commands a big share of the commercial market and will continue to do so. A lot depends on how Toyota and Honda treat the mass segment. "Game Changers"?? - I hope so!
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Old 28th January 2011, 18:16   #99
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

When speaking about the japs and the euros.I guess its also the mindset of the people. People associate euro brands like vw and skoda with their diesels. Infact a petrol car from these stables also translates to lesser resale value at the time of selling. I guess its for this reason that the euros do not give a step motherly treatment to their diesel offerings and infact work the other way round cutting goodies off their petrol variants. Anyhow its about time the govt stepped in with some regulations regarding safety systems. A positive move like this will force manufacturers to offer a certain amount of safety kit compulsarily whether they like it our not.
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Old 28th January 2011, 18:38   #100
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Do Auto companies pay some sort of money towards providing subsidy to the Diesel fuel?
Or does the Govt impose any tax?

Kudos to Ford Figo - same trim on Petrol and Diesel.
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Old 28th January 2011, 18:57   #101
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

usually the diesel varaint are always expensive than petrol cars,i think this is done to keep the costs down so that companies can attract potential customers. Many times people avoid buying diesel because of the extra initial cost so to counter this effect companies don't offer ABS, airbags even as option, disappointingly large majority still consider ABS, airbags as mere add ons. Once the majority recognize the importance of this features, car manufacturers eventually have to incorporate these features in diesel variants also.
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Old 28th January 2011, 21:16   #102
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

I might be late but still my comment is on the SWIFT VDI

Maruti doesnt even provide a 6L car with Electric ORVM which is pathetic.Even wagon R ,a 4L car has this feature
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Old 28th January 2011, 23:51   #103
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

Great discussion this.

What would happen if the Govt would actually make ABS and airbags as standard equipment for cetain category of cars, say > 1.3 cc or >75 bhp?

1. Consumers will be forced to buy cars with safety equipment. If you don't have the dosh, tough luck, buy the lower version with no ACC and no rear power windows.
2. Production lines will be geared up for the larger percentage of cars with safety equipment rather than the other way around. Some cars will have ABS airbags in all models. Not sure how much this will help in production process efficiencies
3. Some reduction in per unit cost of the ABS airbags due to economies of scale
4. Last but not the least - safer cars on the road!

Additional steps the Govt can do:
1. Lower/ waive off all duties on ABS and airbag systems.
2. Higher insurance premium for cars without safety equipment

My 2 paisa
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Old 29th January 2011, 10:40   #104
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

@jogidada. I definately agree with the additional steps the govt can take as you mentioned. Auto makers are more than happy to rake in the extra moolah and shortchange diesel vehicle buyers. Competition in the market will force more manufacturers to offer better safety systems, but the choice to do so still remains with them. If the govt puts in place certain norms the manufacturers will have no choice but to comply
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Old 29th January 2011, 12:21   #105
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Default Re: Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers?

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Originally Posted by jogidada View Post
Great discussion this.

What would happen if the Govt would actually make ABS and airbags as standard equipment for cetain category of cars, say > 1.3 cc or >75 bhp?
To my recollection, this is what the UK government did in early 90's (I think law introduced in 1992 for 1993 enforcement).

They made it compulsory for all cars registered on or after 1st Jan 1993 to be equipped with drivers airbag (Remembering an old Autocar article).

(Please correct me if there is any error in my recollection).
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