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Old 26th February 2011, 07:25   #151
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Pratim thanks for sharing your experience. Good to hear things worked better way in your
case. Keep us updated with further observations you would have.

Mine is scheduled for tomorrow, I would try to be there in person to see what they do, only if they agree to this but would try to insist.
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Old 26th February 2011, 11:15   #152
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

I was informed that a special training was held for this operation. Also, as per the service manual, they are supposed to use 2 tools (Tool A and B) for this purpose.
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Old 26th February 2011, 12:55   #153
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Along with yellow paint mark on the passenger side door there is the 5LT stamp on the service manual. Post replacement yet to find any noticeable changes though engine seems to be more free-revving (could also be the effect of oil change)
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Old 26th February 2011, 14:23   #154
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Hello All,

I had registered on the Honda website earlier this week to get my car serviced for spring replacement . Had requested the job to be done at Solitaire Honda ( Andheri W - Mumbai ) workshop

I was also due for a routine service this week . I got a call from solitaire asking if i could get in my car for the part replacement. Since i was anyway giving the car for service on 25/02 i said they can do it then.

I have got the car back today . It did not feel much different from before , maybe because my vehicle has just run about 4.5K Kms so is relatively new .

I even got call from Honda delhi office asking if solitaire has concluded my work . I have asked them to take my feedback on the job next week.

The service advisor at solitaire told me that adequate stocks of the springs have come from Honda to do this maintenance.
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Old 26th February 2011, 14:34   #155
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Originally Posted by bhaani View Post
Along with yellow paint mark on the passenger side door there is the 5LT stamp on the service manual. Post replacement yet to find any noticeable changes though engine seems to be more free-revving (could also be the effect of oil change)
Hi bhaani

Was the engine oil change part of your regular service or as part of replacement?
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Old 27th February 2011, 11:46   #156
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Default Part Replacement procedure

Hi All,

Was at Dealer this morning for the replacement, SA explained me the procedure. I insisted to show the parts to be removed, which he promptly did. Asked him to show till what level the parts would be removed, he visually pointed till what level it would be removed. This actually inclined me to stay and check the procedure.

Top part of the engine is completely removed, one can see the crank shaft. I would let pics talk the rest.

Only thing that concerned me was the bay in which they were handling these upgrades, I was worried about dust which can go in to the engine. Asked the same SA said nothing to worry

Pics:

Top portion removed

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00414201102271018.jpg

Rocker Arm Removal
Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00415201102271019.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00416201102271019.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00418201102271019.jpg

Replacement of Springs

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00419201102271022.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00421201102271022.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00422201102271023.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00423201102271023.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00425201102271024.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00426201102271026.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00427201102271026.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00428201102271026.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00429201102271036.jpg

Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans-img00430201102271039.jpg

Then,

> Rocker arm would be replaced
> TAP adjustments would be carried out (would be done only when engine is cool)
> Engine oil level would be checked and if required would be topped free.

I had some work hence need to leave else would have been there for complete procedure.

Last edited by raghu230506 : 27th February 2011 at 11:55. Reason: typo
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Old 27th February 2011, 16:15   #157
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Thanks Raghu for detailed pics and sharing them.

This is like an open heart surgery for sure.

We must wait and watch how dealerships are able to manage this and how competent / experienced the technicians are to do this kind of job at dealerships. Which I assume they are, but I am not sure 100%.

PS: My SA at Dakshin Honda had earlier claimed that they dont 'touch' the engine at dealerships - when he was explaining 'great honda engine saaar'
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Old 28th February 2011, 14:58   #158
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by narayanang76 View Post
Thanks Raghu for detailed pics and sharing them.

This is like an open heart surgery for sure.

We must wait and watch how dealerships are able to manage this and how competent / experienced the technicians are to do this kind of job at dealerships. Which I assume they are, but I am not sure 100%.

PS: My SA at Dakshin Honda had earlier claimed that they dont 'touch' the engine at dealerships - when he was explaining 'great honda engine saaar'
Thanks guys for making things quite explicit. As expected, this is quite an operation requiring special tools and training with the great HONDA engine open heart surgery done in indian dealership. Till this Japanese "jugaad" done with indian "finesse" is over, I will have my fingers crossed. Tomorrow is my car due for this surgery, but i cant be there during this operation.
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Old 28th February 2011, 16:35   #159
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by bullock-Car View Post
Thanks guys for making things quite explicit. As expected, this is quite an operation requiring special tools and training with the great HONDA engine open heart surgery done in indian dealership. Till this Japanese "jugaad" done with indian "finesse" is over, I will have my fingers crossed. Tomorrow is my car due for this surgery, but i cant be there during this operation.
Guys,

I have worked in an automobile service centre after my engineering, and would be happy to admit that not withstanding my degree in automobile engineering, there are far far more knowledgeable persons in team-bhp itself about cars and engines.

In my humble, but firm opinion, the removal of the rocker springs is a pretty straight forward exercise, and not something that can exactly be termed an open heart surgery. For the sake of analogy, it would more resemble a non-invasive stenting, at the max.

so, chill would be take.
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Old 28th February 2011, 21:12   #160
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
Gentlemen.,,

This recall somehow doesnt really cut ice with my sensibilities like it does to many other owners of ANHC ..

First of all why do we Indians prefer brands like Honda and Toyota and shell out almost 20% premium to buy their cars ?

The answer lies in RELIABILITY and CREDIBILITY.

Lets address RELIABILITY first since it has taken a severe beating in this episode.

In my honest opinion, if a manufacuter is charging a 20% premium, I assume that he has put in that 20% of extra effort in Quality Control and Technology that is state-of-the-art.
What is the point in giving a superior technology if it is not reliable ?

Engine is supposed to be the heart of the car. Its like the best hospital in India telling a patient that "Inspite of the premium treatment that you paid for, we have probably buggered up with your heart and there is a 1% chance that you might have an unannounced heart failure! But dont worry, we will do an open-heart surgery free of cost as a precautionary measure!!" . And the patient is so pleased with the hospital for this free of cost treatment and forgets that it was the same hospital that messed up his heart in the first place. Not only that , he even sings praises for the hospital for offering him a free of cost remedial surgery.

WEIRD , isnt it ?



Lets come to the second issue of CREDIBILITY..

The so-called problem is only in cars manufactured from Nov 2008 to Apr 2010. So what happened after Apr 2010??

DID THE DEFECT IN THE ENGINE AUTOCORRECT ?

The answer in all probabilities is NO.

That would mean Honda deliberately kept this under wraps for one full year, just to boost up their sales numbers at the cost of unsuspecting previous owners !!
Thats CRIMINAL Gentlemen.

HONDA DESERVES TO BE TAKEN TO COURT OVER THIS DELIBERATE SUPPRESSION OF FACTS FOR ONE FULL YEAR.

The question is do we have the guts to do it?

On the other hand, Giving manufacturers the benefit of doubt and assuming that Honda themselves came to know of the problem only now and immediately effected a recall, it would imply that all the cars that were manufactured from Jan 2010 till Jan 2011 would also have the same manufacuring defect and that prospect is equally scary!!

Credibility is when someone tells us the entire truth and in my opinion, Honda is certainly not coming out with the full facts.
So, there goes the Honda credibility for a toss.


Finally, lets take the issue of recall itself thats being handled so shoddily.
Honda and the dealers seem completely out of sync and they better get their house in order asap to make the process devoid of complications to the already disillusioned owners of ANHC like me.

I rest my case Gentlemen.

IVB
Seems like premonition now.

Somehow I had a weird feeling the day Honda announced this recall that it would be akin to an open-heart surgery.

Inspite of the numerous other glitches, thankfully my car doesnt have an engine problem till now.

After seeing the pictures am not so comfortable about the Indian surgery to the Japanese heart.

I remember my SA telling me that the ANHC engine is state-of-the-art and would be trouble-free for life. He even said something of the sort that Honda has only trained a select few on this engine because it is considered so reliable !!! This was a couple of months back during the 2nd year servicing when the warranty expired..

Iam apprehensive that this preventive replacement might do more harm than good to the engine !!!

Will it be OK if I dont go ahead with this replacement of springs and retain the sealed condition of the engine?

Would appreciate expert advice from TBHPians..

Last edited by INDIAN_VAGABOND : 28th February 2011 at 21:23.
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Old 1st March 2011, 12:02   #161
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Default Re: Part Replacement procedure

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Originally Posted by RajaTaurus View Post
That sounds serious. If Honda is saying that they don't have to dismantle the engine, I have to believe their words. But someone must have a personal check of how they do it. AFAIK, they need to at least remove the cam rod assembly to reach to the tappet springs. Please check out this link for more details.
What/Where are Lost Motion Assemblies? - HondaSwap Forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu230506 View Post
Hi All,
Was at Dealer this morning for the replacement, SA explained me the procedure....
I had some work hence need to leave else would have been there for complete procedure.
Thanks for sharing this and this is what I expected. They should have said it clear that the head and rocker assembly have to be removed, which in itself is opening up the engine. Not necessarily it doesn't have to be stripped apart until the last washer, yet, the head and cam assembly removal is some dismantling there.
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Old 1st March 2011, 13:13   #162
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
Seems like premonition now.

Somehow I had a weird feeling the day Honda announced this recall that it would be akin to an open-heart surgery.

Inspite of the numerous other glitches, thankfully my car doesnt have an engine problem till now.

After seeing the pictures am not so comfortable about the Indian surgery to the Japanese heart.

I remember my SA telling me that the ANHC engine is state-of-the-art and would be trouble-free for life. He even said something of the sort that Honda has only trained a select few on this engine because it is considered so reliable !!! This was a couple of months back during the 2nd year servicing when the warranty expired..

Iam apprehensive that this preventive replacement might do more harm than good to the engine !!!

Will it be OK if I dont go ahead with this replacement of springs and retain the sealed condition of the engine?

Would appreciate expert advice from TBHPians..
I would recommend going for the update and have some faith in the service engineers. We have already seen reports of successful upgradation carried out.
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Old 1st March 2011, 13:13   #163
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
Seems like premonition now.

Would appreciate expert advice from TBHPians..
I fully agree with you INDIAN_VAGABOND.
Quite strange hardly any experts (be it mods, distinguished or senior BHPians) who possesses quite a high level of technical understanding have made any comment on this.

Are we seeing Honda bias here too , like the way few magazines have towards certain cars? Hope not, since T-BHP is way beyond all those.

Had posted in this thread earlier also to help us guys about the changes that will undergo and the impact, if any ,due to the same to be shared with people like us who are not very sound in the mechanics of car.
Seems to have fallen in deaf ears or kind of ignored it completely.
It's OK, we all know that you guys are also busy with work in addition to T-BHP activities.

Best Regards,
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Old 1st March 2011, 20:37   #164
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

My City V AT was manufactured in Jan 2010 but still fell in the list of would-be recalled cars. The procedure was done last Monday (28/Feb).

I dropped the car at Whitefield Honda with the cult service advisor Manjunath KV, on the way to work and picked up the car in the evening. My car had been given a free wash plus a box of tissue. I could not wait like Raghu whole day to see the replacement procedure.

Did not feel any palpable difference in driving experience after the replacement. So far so good.

Last edited by B103 : 1st March 2011 at 20:39.
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Old 1st March 2011, 20:49   #165
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

All things apart, i do not think that coming out so openly and with such high visibility on this issue, honda will not do enough to ensure that this is the right thing to do. I dont think owners should consider NOT going for it and doubt if the way things are being done are proper or not. Overall, this apart, india is still far far behind global standards when it comes to consumer protection etc, people buy lacs of worth of houses, and still get shortchanged. I hope all folks who are going for the recall, get what they paid for initially-quality and reliability
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