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Old 1st March 2011, 21:29   #166
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

I see lot of messages with the opinion that Honda is at serious fault with regard to this recall.

I appeal to all T-BHPians to encourage it rather than the opposite way. Reason is simple -- it benefits us.

Recall sucks for the manufacturer because their reputation is at stake and lot of money as well as effort is also drained. So choice is theirs -- conviniently cover up a fault [or] own up the responsibility and fix it. We all would have seen how it works in India.

Clearly Honda is not Tata who has the history of selling lot of crap (initially for new models) and learn about major defects via customer feedback. Japanese has stringent quality norms. But theoretically, even they cannot guarantee 100% quality. For that matter, no mass manufactured car will be able to stake that claim. Reasons are obvious.

If Honda is recalling the car for part replacement, it sets a good precedence. I am more relaxed and happy now regarding my Honda than before. This is because I know that the car will be recalled if Honda realizes a fault.

I am sure Hyundai, Tata, Maruti and Fiat owners would prefer this to happen rather than continue living in fool's paradise and having fallible notions on quality.

How many times did other manufacture do this in India ? Now, does it mean that all those Marutis and Hyundais in Indian roads are totally defect free ? May be, those car owners are loosing in comparision !!

Last edited by B103 : 1st March 2011 at 21:35.
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Old 1st March 2011, 23:01   #167
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Recall sucks for the manufacturer because their reputation is at stake and lot of money as well as effort is also drained.

Clearly Honda is not Tata who has the history of selling lot of crap (initially for new models) and learn about major defects via customer feedback. Japanese has stringent quality norms. But theoretically, even they cannot guarantee 100% quality.

I am sure Hyundai, Tata, Maruti and Fiat owners would prefer this to happen rather than continue living in fool's paradise and having fallible notions on quality.

How many times did other manufacture do this in India ? Now, does it mean that all those Marutis and Hyundais in Indian roads are totally defect free ? May be, those car owners are loosing in comparision !!

A few points:-

If Honda sells trash in the name of quality, then their balance sheet and reputation deserve to go downhill.

This International recall from Honda is based on customer feedback abroad(like Tata did in India). HONDA DINT HAVE A CHOICE as a few engines had already stalled abroad.
Indian customers would have woken up sooner than later. So, lets refrain from bending over backwards to praise Honda.

I can well understand the pride we had in owning a Honda. Even I had an inflated HONDA EGO.
But, lets not cast aspersions on the quality of other manufacturers based on assumptions and presumptions.

Our Glass-house has begun to crack and pelting stones at onlookers is not the solution to the problem.
At this point of time, the "All cars have defects" philosophy sounds like a case of AN ATTEMPT AT RECONCILIATION BY A BRUISED EGO more than anythingelse.

The bottomline is - ITS OUR ANHC THAT HAS A DEFECTIVE ENGINE AND NOT THE TATA INDIGO.
And I hate to see my dream car turn into a Nightmare.

Disclaimer: I dont own a Tata vehicle nor do I have any affiliation to the Tata group

Last edited by INDIAN_VAGABOND : 1st March 2011 at 23:04.
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Old 1st March 2011, 23:57   #168
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
A few points:-

If Honda sells trash in the name of quality, then their balance sheet and reputation deserve to go downhill.

This International recall from Honda is based on customer feedback abroad(like Tata did in India). HONDA DINT HAVE A CHOICE as a few engines had already stalled abroad.
Indian customers would have woken up sooner than later. So, lets refrain from bending over backwards to praise Honda.

I can well understand the pride we had in owning a Honda. Even I had an inflated HONDA EGO.
But, lets not cast aspersions on the quality of other manufacturers based on assumptions and presumptions.

Our Glass-house has begun to crack and pelting stones at onlookers is not the solution to the problem.
At this point of time, the "All cars have defects" philosophy sounds like a case of AN ATTEMPT AT RECONCILIATION BY A BRUISED EGO more than anythingelse.

The bottomline is - ITS OUR ANHC THAT HAS A DEFECTIVE ENGINE AND NOT THE TATA INDIGO.
And I hate to see my dream car turn into a Nightmare.

Disclaimer: I dont own a Tata vehicle nor do I have any affiliation to the Tata group

nothing to get so psyched up about this. chill!
Have some faith on the company and get the faulty stuff replaced!

Globally, all manufacturers have done recalls. It is good Honda is following the same approach here in India.

India does not have any consumer protection law,( practically) which is used by many companies to brush things aside and not take responsibility. Honda could have done that if they had wished to!

My faith in the brand is not diminished at all, rather, it is reinforced.

Some of the comments here seem over dramatic and filmy
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Old 2nd March 2011, 10:13   #169
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post

My faith in the brand is not diminished at all, rather, it is reinforced.

Some of the comments here seem over dramatic and filmy
In all my posts on this subject over the past two weeks, I have time and again emphasised that more than the recall, its the delay and the manner in which the recall has been executed that has disillusioned me.

When some owners have literally fallen on Honda's feet thanking them for the recall, i thought it would be prudent to express my contrarian views with the same intensity

It sounded dramatic and filmy because the pun was intended.

Criticising other manufacturers when we have to deal with our own serious problems in the first place is something that I dont subscribe to ..

Last edited by INDIAN_VAGABOND : 2nd March 2011 at 10:24.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 12:22   #170
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
nothing to get so psyched up about this. chill!
Have some faith on the company and get the faulty stuff replaced!

Globally, all manufacturers have done recalls. It is good Honda is following the same approach here in India.

India does not have any consumer protection law,( practically) which is used by many companies to brush things aside and not take responsibility. Honda could have done that if they had wished to!

My faith in the brand is not diminished at all, rather, it is reinforced.

Some of the comments here seem over dramatic and filmy
+1 I agree some comments are really over the top and I doubt if they are coming from members even owning a City or any Honda vehicle. Lets keep this thread for the replacement procedure and experience not for honda bashing. Please vent your anger in some other threads like the monthly sales thread where this is a norm. On the positive side I can see majority of the owners happy with this recall and with the whole process. Which is a good sign. Not sure why some are not satisfied with the replacement process. It has to be done in a phase manner as we are talking of 50K vehicles here. Cant expect all 50K vehicles to be called for the replacement at the same time. That would be total chaos.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 12:52   #171
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
A few points:- If Honda sells trash in the name of quality, then their balance sheet and reputation deserve to go downhill.
Please let us know how may grave problems were reported in your ANHC after your purchase. A single recall might not be sufficent to brand a product as trash. There are others factors too -- the number of customer issues reported by different owners, overall customer satisfaction and history of manufacturer's penchant for quality and probably many more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
This International recall from Honda is based on customer feedback abroad(like Tata did in India). HONDA DINT HAVE A CHOICE as a few engines had already stalled abroad.
Do we have statistics on how many ANHC engines stalled in India alone ? Without that info, how can we insist that Honda recall these cars in India too ? Now if they had recalled the car globally, isn't that a responsible act ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
Indian customers would have woken up sooner than later. So, lets refrain from bending over backwards to praise Honda. can well understand the pride we had in owning a Honda. Even I had an inflated HONDA EGO.
Why was it concluded that ego and pride are the only reasons for me to make such a statement. Can it not be that, I wrote it based on prior experience ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
But, lets not cast aspersions on the quality of other manufacturers based on assumptions and presumptions.
I owned a Hyundai Getz (purchased new) before buying ANHC and have personal experience regarding the difference in quality between the two.

Again, my father owns the new Indica Vista and I am familair with the quality levels of that car too. Tata had replaced costly parts for him under warranty because it had problems. For many owners, those problems may appear after expiry of warranty period. Tatas recalled Nanos only when it severly affected Nano's business itself. Till then, they vehmently denied any defects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
Our Glass-house has begun to crack and pelting stones at onlookers is not the solution to the problem.
I am sorry, but mine is not broken. When I bought ANHC, Honda had not given any written commitments that the car is defect free and may never be recalled. In my experience, overall quality levels are very high in ANHC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
At this point of time, the "All cars have defects" philosophy sounds like a case of AN ATTEMPT AT RECONCILIATION BY A BRUISED EGO more than anything else.
This portal is for discussing subjects related to automobiles and that was precisely what was done here. Making judgements on behalf of others would be a sin more cardinal than the accusation made here
A good number of us has free minds and would like to retain it. Let us subjectively discuss about cars and only cars here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
The bottomline is - ITS OUR ANHC THAT HAS A DEFECTIVE ENGINE AND NOT THE TATA INDIGO. And I hate to see my dream car turn into a Nightmare. Disclaimer: I dont own a Tata vehicle nor do I have any affiliation to the Tata group
If an engine part is faulty, it can be replaced. The whole engine need not be termed as defective. If our ANHC was not recalled for this fault (as other manufactures typically do) nobody would have been unhappy and lost sleep.

Now, does that mean that ANHC has a defective engine and not Tata Indigo. Who knows !!

Last edited by n_aditya : 2nd March 2011 at 15:07. Reason: quote tags fixed
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Old 2nd March 2011, 12:55   #172
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Lets keep this thread for the replacement procedure and experience not for honda bashing. .
Well said Sir. Honda needs to be applauded for this effort.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 2nd March 2011 at 12:59.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 13:13   #173
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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+1 I agree some comments are really over the top and I doubt if they are coming from members even owning a City or any Honda vehicle. Lets keep this thread for the replacement procedure and experience not for honda bashing. Please vent your anger in some other threads like the monthly sales thread where this is a norm.

On the positive side I can see majority of the owners happy with this recall and with the whole process. Which is a good sign. Not sure why some are not satisfied with the replacement process. It has to be done in a phase manner as we are talking of 50K vehicles here. Cant expect all 50K vehicles to be called for the replacement at the same time. That would be total chaos.
I dont understand why we should talk about the recall in the monthly sales forum.

How am I bothered about how many ANHCs sell in a month when am stuck with a defective car !!

However I agree that it would be really great if members can post their replacement experiences.

I agree some negative comments may be coming from non-owners but an equal number of positive comments are also coming from them. Lets stop disrespecting and casting aspersions on the views of other car owners and learn to be pragmatic - in accepting both applause and criticism.


I have my own reasons why Iam disillusioned with this recall process. The warranty of my ANHC expired in Dec 10. Had Honda done this replacement even six months back in Jun 10 ( assuming the defective vehicles are from Nov 08 to Dec 09), I would have had six months under warranty to check out the efficacy of the repair work. And am sure am not the only one whos facing

Now, after seeing the quantum of work involved and my previous experience with the dealers on a different problem, am apprehensive about opening up my engine.

I hav still not received any reply to my mail to Honda asking answers for specific quetions.

I had sought expert advice from TBHPians regarding the long-term impact of opening up a sealed engine. No reply has come so far probably because they dont want to comment too early.

As owners we may be happy with the process but are we really sure that we want to open up the engine for a preventive replacement without ascertaining the long term consequences?



As a footnote, since monthly sales was brought up, is it without reason that the sales of ANHC dropped by a whopping 40% in the month of Feb 2011 as compared to Jan 2011.

Also, the resale value of ANHC has dropped between 10 to 20% since the past two weeks depending on the mileage of the car.

I know this for a fact since I was in the process of upgrading, but have put off my plans for now.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 15:14   #174
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

I feel way too much is being said here!

Let this thread be productive - owners whose ANHCs underwent the replacement can post their experiences and the difference they find in the vehicle, how it is necessary to get it done etc.

I am not saying Honda is a devil for not recalling the vehicles earlier; nor am I saying they are saints to admit the fault and recall. You have Toyota making recalls worldwide; it means manufacturers, despite their name and brand value are actually admitting the faults and trying to rectify them.

I am not saying we idolize Honda because they announced the recall; but at least let us wait till the replacement is complete and see how the change goes.

One has to admit, the moment they realize the problem, it is impossible to start recalling vehicles. There are so many logistics involved - finding how many vehicles were affected, mobilizing data, finding a replacement for the part, testing, ensuring it is compatible, having enough no. of parts etc. etc.

One day we call ANHC and Honda a gem and the next day Honda is being labelled a cheat and ANHC "trash". If that is the case, why buy a Honda product in the first place?! It is surprising how some people are calling ANHC a wonderful car in their Ownership reports and now suddenly the car has this problem and that niggle!

Agree, for someone who has invested 9 lakhs in a car, to find that something might be wrong in the engine is heart wrenching but everything can't be perfect! Now you know there is a replacement for the problem - get it done.

Honda owes an explanation - agreed; but we have to ensure that is productive. Ultimately that car is ours, so might as well do what is necessary.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 15:50   #175
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
This International recall from Honda is based on customer feedback abroad(like Tata did in India). HONDA DINT HAVE A CHOICE as a few engines had already stalled abroad.
Can you please provide source and country where the engine stalled. The only reason i ask is, the same engine used in FIT(Jazz) in USA is also being recalled and the number is almost double of what is recalled in India. Still as per various reports, no accident, no car stalled have been reported.

Its just for my info. Thanks
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Old 2nd March 2011, 22:45   #176
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

yesterday i got my Honda ANHC "recalled" and "updated", after the updation i was given a questionaire about whether the product updation solved the problem, which I refused to answer. the SA told that there were few incidences of engine stalling for which they were recalling. I am not finding the difference in the car.I had a look at the components being changed on other car while taking delivery of my car.
I had also panicked at the thought of a defective/deterioration of the engine due to defect.
On the whole i feel this is a good trend of admitting and updating, rather than keep quite or push under the carpet. I thought I had overreacted. In any machine, whenever any critical failures observed by company, should be admit and make things transperant.
In aircraft industry some failures can creep up or observed/noted after being in service and millions of flying,despite the highest quality standards.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 14:46   #177
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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* Car definitely feels quicker in 1st and 2nd gear. Earlier, car in 2nd gear was lethargic.
* engine felt a bit more eagar while driving in full automatic D mode without using the paddle shifters.
* noise I can't clarify, since it was raining outside and there was moderate traffic on ORR.
Yes, after 3-4 days of driving (I drove abt 200 KMs post the recall thing), I can surely say that car feels quicker/eager/freed up specifically in 2nd gear. It's not something like an over the top improvement, but it's very much noticeable. Also, the noise has come down a wee bit in 2nd gear. Earlier, I almost hated to use the 2nd gear. Now, that's not the case.

-Pratim
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Old 3rd March 2011, 16:13   #178
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Got he part replaced in my car too. they took two days. SA was mentioning about some careful calibration that needs to be done, so it looks like a skilled job (and human judgement/error etc).
I felt that engine is feeling smoother. There used to be an uneven sound during cold start/idling which seems very 'flat and even' now.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 16:59   #179
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Got he part replaced in my car too. they took two days. SA was mentioning about some careful calibration that needs to be done, so it looks like a skilled job (and human judgement/error etc).
I felt that engine is feeling smoother. There used to be an uneven sound during cold start/idling which seems very 'flat and even' now.
Which dealer? 2 days seem to be a long time.

Only thing I heard was engine need to get cool, before they do TAPIT settings (hope I spelled it correctly) else there won't be any delay.

It started at 9:30 AM in the morning and the car was delivered to me by 3:30 PM. I drove very few kms after the replacement and so far didn't find anything changed,
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Old 3rd March 2011, 17:06   #180
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Its a good move by Honda. They could have chose to remain ignorant and later fleece the customers when they come-in for repairs, like many others do. But they have taken a pro-active step and made a recall. This defenitely boosts the confidence. One can be rest assured that in case of future faults, which are inevitable, the manufacturer will pro-actively replace the parts at fault.
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