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Old 19th February 2011, 13:54   #76
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Can someone clarify what are the symptoms of the issue - related to this recall?

Read somewhere engine stalling, louder engine noise etc. Anyone whose car is due for replacement part of this recall as specified by Honda has observed any of those in their car?

AND I personally see this as a positive, brave and customer friendly move from Honda. It is not easy to accept a mistake in such a large scale public way. Even though we might not like our cars facing such issues, and also the brand image/value of such cars could take a hit possibly (during resale etc). Just my thoughts
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Old 19th February 2011, 18:30   #77
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post
Guys.,

It seems the very correct thing for a ANHC owner to do now is to take the moral high ground regarding this faulty engine part recall and say "Kudos to Honda for makng the recall" .
This is because we are ashamed of publicly accepting the fact that we have been shortchanged by a manufacturer who charges a premium ( and quite lots of it) in the name of reliabilty.

What Honda deserves now is Brickbats and not Kudos - and let ANHC owners like us come out of the closet and be frank about it ...
I dint shell out a premium of 2 lakhs on my sedan to have quality and reliability related issues so soon.

Am heading to the showroom for replacement .. and the grapevine is that the replacement may not just be a permanent solution to the problem, which may have larger engine-reliability linked issues.

I seriously hope this is not a feel good exercise from Honda to cover up some larger issues with the engine ..

Best of luck to the 58000 owners of which am one ...

IVB

Gentlemen.,,

This recall somehow doesnt really cut ice with my sensibilities like it does to many other owners of ANHC ..

First of all why do we Indians prefer brands like Honda and Toyota and shell out almost 20% premium to buy their cars ?

The answer lies in RELIABILITY and CREDIBILITY.

Lets address RELIABILITY first since it has taken a severe beating in this episode.

In my honest opinion, if a manufacuter is charging a 20% premium, I assume that he has put in that 20% of extra effort in Quality Control and Technology that is state-of-the-art.
What is the point in giving a superior technology if it is not reliable ?

Engine is supposed to be the heart of the car. Its like the best hospital in India telling a patient that "Inspite of the premium treatment that you paid for, we have probably buggered up with your heart and there is a 1% chance that you might have an unannounced heart failure! But dont worry, we will do an open-heart surgery free of cost as a precautionary measure!!" . And the patient is so pleased with the hospital for this free of cost treatment and forgets that it was the same hospital that messed up his heart in the first place. Not only that , he even sings praises for the hospital for offering him a free of cost remedial surgery.

WEIRD , isnt it ?



Lets come to the second issue of CREDIBILITY..

The so-called problem is only in cars manufactured from Nov 2008 to Apr 2010. So what happened after Apr 2010??

DID THE DEFECT IN THE ENGINE AUTOCORRECT ?

The answer in all probabilities is NO.

That would mean Honda deliberately kept this under wraps for one full year, just to boost up their sales numbers at the cost of unsuspecting previous owners !!
Thats CRIMINAL Gentlemen.

HONDA DESERVES TO BE TAKEN TO COURT OVER THIS DELIBERATE SUPPRESSION OF FACTS FOR ONE FULL YEAR.

The question is do we have the guts to do it?

On the other hand, Giving manufacturers the benefit of doubt and assuming that Honda themselves came to know of the problem only now and immediately effected a recall, it would imply that all the cars that were manufactured from Jan 2010 till Jan 2011 would also have the same manufacuring defect and that prospect is equally scary!!

Credibility is when someone tells us the entire truth and in my opinion, Honda is certainly not coming out with the full facts.
So, there goes the Honda credibility for a toss.


Finally, lets take the issue of recall itself thats being handled so shoddily.
Honda and the dealers seem completely out of sync and they better get their house in order asap to make the process devoid of complications to the already disillusioned owners of ANHC like me.

I rest my case Gentlemen.

IVB
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Old 19th February 2011, 19:09   #78
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Hi IVB

I understand your point, I myself am an ANHC owner and my car needs the part replacement too. One important thing you need to respect is the fact that they openly admit it. There are many occasions where dealer/manufacture patch up things with out giving the bigger picture/actual reason.

Remember none of us faced any issues so far expected with this part did we??

Coming back to 1 year delay, can be two folded

One: it takes certain amount of diagnosis which everyone takes and this what would also be the case with the Honda (replace the vendor and assess the situation).

For catastrophic accidents which happens in flights (caused by engines or parts) takes a whole lot of time than 1 year

Two: After a complete anlaysis of the all the parts used so far, Honda identifies the batch and year. It might not mean that they identified the problem a year ago. Iam sure if they had they would have not wait so long

As a ANHC owner, Iam more happy for this bold move from Honda in rectifying the issue even before we faced one. It would have been a nightmare if the car stalled during my long drives especially when family aboard.

Iam only concerned on the way the dealer would handles this.

Last edited by raghu230506 : 19th February 2011 at 19:35.
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Old 19th February 2011, 19:26   #79
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post

HONDA DESERVES TO BE TAKEN TO COURT OVER THIS DELIBERATE SUPPRESSION OF FACTS FOR ONE FULL YEAR.
Hi INDIAN_VAGABOND, I understand your feelings. It is always disheartening to know that our dream car is from defective batch.

But the point to consider is that it is not necessary that all 57K units must have defect. Remember this is a preventive part replacement program, you need not to worry that much. Instead we should be happy that the company is admitting their mistake and they are at least doing the correct thing sooner or later.

Last edited by bluevolt : 19th February 2011 at 19:27.
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Old 19th February 2011, 19:48   #80
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

honda worldwide has actually announced a recall of 7,00,000 card. 57K is only in India
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Old 20th February 2011, 19:10   #81
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

After the components change the engine would no longer be a sealed engine . The owners of the cars must be given something more than just the replacement .
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Old 21st February 2011, 10:51   #82
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Guys,

Being a owner myself, yes, I am bit concerned until this replacement is done for my car. For, though the car is running fine, I dont know when my luck runs out. But, I feel that there's no reason to be overtly anxious and angry. Let's see how Honda handles this parts recall. Being a mature company I expect them to handle this quickly and effciently.

May be too early to ask, but can any of the ANHC owners confirm if his/her car has been part of this recall? If so, how was the whole experience?

-Pratim
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Old 21st February 2011, 15:06   #83
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIAN_VAGABOND View Post

Honda and the dealers seem completely out of sync and they better get their house in order asap to make the process devoid of complications to the already disillusioned owners of ANHC like me.


IVB
Dear ANHC owners.

My car is due for the recall and I havent received any intimation from either Honda or my dealer about it. I had taken my car to the dealer but they said Honda will promulgate the schedfule.

Guys, somehow I still don’t fully understand why the recall is happening one full year after Honda realised that there is a problem.

If Honda had realised as early as Jan 2010 that there is a problem with the engine, they should have immediately brought it to the notice of ANHC owners, irrespective of whether they have found the solution to the defect or not.
They cannot hide behind the fig leaf that engine-stalling has occurred only in 1% of cars and hence the defect is not a cause of great concern.

The decision on whether to contiune running the car with a defective engine should have been left to the owner of the car because as I understand the defect is common to all cars whereas only in few cars the engine-stalling has physically happened. Is this a kind of lottery that I hope like hell that the engine of my premium sedan doesn’t stall midway when am on a long drive with my family?

That’s RIDICULOUS to put it mildly.

That is the prime reason why Iam feeling cheated and assuming that Honda deliberately kept this under wraps for one full year, only to jack up their sales, at the cost of unsuspecting previous owners.

Even in these testing times, it is we owners who are fiercely defending the manufacturer!

Honda has still not offered a satisfactory explanation or an official communication clarifying the huge time delay of one year in letting the car owners know of the problem and effecting the recall.

Are we 200% sure that continued running with this defect has not caused any other consequential defects to our ANHC engine, that might manifest itself in a catastrophic failure few years down the line?

Can Honda vouch for the success of repairs during recall and say that there wont be any consequential defects to the ANHC engine in the future since we were using a defective spare in the past ?

Now that most of our cars that are subject to this problem are already out of warranty or would run out of warranty in this year, will Honda consider extending the warranty on the engine by another 2 years, after the car has been recalled and the defect presumably rectified?

One more point for us ANHC owners to ponder is, let us not be magnanimous and compare other run-of-the-mill brands with HONDA. These things are not expected from Honda, that’s the reason why we chose ANHC in the first place over other cheaper alternatives. Isnt it ?

And what do we get in return after paying almost a 20% premium?
A DEFECTIVE MASTERPIECE !!
Don’t we have every reason to feel ANGRY and CHEATED?

I can never be as charitable as most of us are in this case. As I said, it is not just because the defect has occurred. It has also to do with the suppression of information from previous owners like me for one full year. If they can do this to us today, they can do it to everyone else tommorrow. Because, for them what matters is sales numbers!!
That is why I am seriously contemplating a court-case to claim damages.

I don’t want to associate credibility and realibility with HONDA anymore!!
GENEROSITY – probably yes; because they attending to this defect and recall free of cost.

We are now at the mercy of our most generous manufacturer gentlemen. Therefore, I have serious apprehensions as to how the dealership is going to handle this recall too.

Last but not the least, think of what this defect and recall has done to the resale value of our ANHC.
Nothing can now stop the drastic drop in the resale value of ANHC. Who would want to buy a car with a known defect in the engine at a premium in second-hand market??

We dont have an alternative but to hope that our generous manufacturer handles this recall well and pray that our ANHC engine remains defect-free in the future!!

IVB

Last edited by INDIAN_VAGABOND : 21st February 2011 at 15:17.
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Old 21st February 2011, 15:58   #84
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

I have a Honda City S-AT and need the part replacement. Off-late, the engine sounds a little different in first gear (This was prior to the recall anouncement). I don't know if the said part is responsible or not.

However, insofar as the part replacement is concerned, my main worry is how intrusive the replacement process actually is vis-a-vis the engine. For example, if the engine or any part thereof needs to be opened for the replacement, I am not ok with it. Someone had commented that the engine would no longer be sealed. If that be the case, they might as well take the car back. Request someone familiar with the process to kindly clarify on this issue.

As far as taking Honda to court is concerned, I am more than game for that. I offer my legal services to any person who is living in Delhi and has purchased and is using the car in Delhi. The litigation will be pro bono.

Regards,
MM
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Old 21st February 2011, 17:35   #85
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by mysticmonkey View Post

However, insofar as the part replacement is concerned, my main worry is how intrusive the replacement process actually is vis-a-vis the engine. For example, if the engine or any part thereof needs to be opened for the replacement, I am not ok with it. Someone had commented that the engine would no longer be sealed. If that be the case, they might as well take the car back. Request someone familiar with the process to kindly clarify on this issue.
The lost motion spring is located in the head, so i think that will involve only opening of engine cover and not dismantling the complete engine.

Quoting bhpian pranavt's comment on this " Situated in the head. Can be replaced by removing the valve cover and unbolting the rocker assembly. Should be a 30-60 minute job for a Honda mechanic with the right tools"
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Old 21st February 2011, 17:45   #86
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

@INDIAN_VAGABOND If Honda had done this an year back they would have saved much more money. You know how much its going to cost them to do this recall. I dont think this was deliberate. And also I dont understand where this 20% extra for reliability and credibility come from. Does Honda or Toyota advertise that pay 20% more for reliability and credibility? I am also an ANHC owner and I know how you feel but I think we are blowing this out of proportion IMHO. If the defect was so serious I dont think cars could have done 30K without any issues. I am more worried about how the dealers will handle this. Keep in mind its 50k odd vehicles so I expect it to take some time. Lets be patient
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Old 21st February 2011, 19:39   #87
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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@INDIAN_VAGABOND If Honda had done this an year back they would have saved much more money. You know how much its going to cost them to do this recall. I dont think this was deliberate. And also I dont understand where this 20% extra for reliability and credibility come from. Does Honda or Toyota advertise that pay 20% more for reliability and credibility? I am also an ANHC owner and I know how you feel but I think we are blowing this out of proportion IMHO. If the defect was so serious I dont think cars could have done 30K without any issues. I am more worried about how the dealers will handle this. Keep in mind its 50k odd vehicles so I expect it to take some time. Lets be patient
Why does one choose Honda or Toyota when similar alternatives from other manufacurers are available at cheaper rates ?
Agreed that Honda doesnt advertise for their Credibility and Reliablity. But dont we expect that from them when we pay a premium ?
Well, after this episode they might as well remove Reliability from their dictionary.

In my view, Honda would have lost out more in terms of ANHC sales in 2010 had they announced in Feb 2010 that ANHCs from Nov 2008 to Jan 2010 were having a defective engine. My conventional wisdom tells me that.

CHECK OUT THE SALES NUMBERS OF ANHC IN 2010 AND YOU WILL HAVE THE ANSWER!!


IMHO, we guys are plain lucky that we have clocked 30k + sans any engine problem.
WE COULD HAVE WELL BEEN ON THE OTHER SIDE WITH A STALLED ENGINE IF THE LOTTERY WAS ON OUR NAME

Last edited by INDIAN_VAGABOND : 21st February 2011 at 19:41.
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Old 21st February 2011, 22:44   #88
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

If this is the kind of reaction a auto company is going to get for coming out clean on a "Possible" defect then no one is going to do with it in future. We have to accept no product is going to be 100% full proof. I thought members on a forum like this would be more supportive of such a move but I guess I am wrong. Has any member actually experienced this engine stalling
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Old 21st February 2011, 23:07   #89
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

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Originally Posted by crazyro View Post
If this is the kind of reaction a auto company is going to get for coming out clean on a "Possible" defect then no one is going to do with it in future. We have to accept no product is going to be 100% full proof. I thought members on a forum like this would be more supportive of such a move but I guess I am wrong.
+1,

Even Honda is run my human beings and they make mistake. I expect people to express their woes towards the company only if the replacement program is not smooth. I have searched various national/international forums on Honda's recall and almost all owners are happy with this step.

We all should again consider this point that this is "PREVENTIVE" replacement program.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 10:31   #90
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Default Re: Honda Siel to recall 57,853 'City' sedans

My ANHC is a June '10 manufactured. Just checked, not part of the recall.

Has anyone whose car required the update done it yet? What exactly was replaced?
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