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Old 3rd March 2011, 12:47   #121
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
On the other hand, GM, FORD have shown true efforts to capture the segments. The improvement is visible in their case where as with Fiat it is not visible. We dont even see promos for Linea now a days. Few Punto promos are aired.
If tata can sell Nano, it does not require rocket science to sell Linea and Punto
Lets accept the facts and move on and let Fiat show the commitment in action than words.
Very aptly put, There are companies who were down and out but still fought back hard, take GM and Ford for example who, though still not beating maruti on its game but still who knows what happens tomm.

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Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
Would I ever put my hard earned money on Fiat, no brownie points for guessing the answer. Even if Alfa is sold at 1.5 million INR, I will still prefer buying similar price bracket Chevy / FORD / MARUTI / Hyundai
Exactly my thoughts. Car companies need to understand that they are not in business of PRODUCT SALES (which is what many companies believe they are in), Instead they should know they are in business of SERVICE for "Customer Experience, satisfaction and ownership of cars"

I am sure for Fiat it doesn't matter what ownership and satisfaction means to customer or else they would have tweaked their TATA-FIAT agreement to accomodate Fiat owned dealership and service centres.

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Originally Posted by Fornax View Post
Question is are they willing to bite the bullet and take the redpill. However time-and-again, they have avoided doing it the hard way.
Looks true on hindsight.
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Originally Posted by Fornax View Post
Take our beauty queens, and groom them at Rs.20 a cut barber shop. That's what Fiat is asking Indian consumers to live with.
I could not have put this so aptly. Amazing you came up with that Exact Comparison.

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Originally Posted by invidious View Post
What if Fiat stops supplying its diesel engine to the likes of Suzuki? That would surely set the cat amongst the pigeons.
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Originally Posted by avishar View Post
Suzuki has its own diesel engine plant which manufactures the 1.3 diesel.Fiat plays no part in it.Except ofcourse i think there just a royalty payment.
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Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
I agree. Fiat is surviving thanks to its engines working wonders on cars of MSIL and Tata. Left to its own, FIAT would have not even made the kind of money it is making from Licensing its engines to other companies.
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Originally Posted by Maverick79 View Post
Fiat is right now getting profit only from its Powertrain I guess.
You guessed it all, Not rightly though. Fiat in India won't get these royalties hence no question of surviving in india with Royalty earnings

Its the FIAT Italy who gets this royalty, so it doesnt matter if Fiat is operating in India or Not. Fiat India is not profitable anyways and if i am correct it has lost many a crores last year.

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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
That would be Harakiri. Fiat makes money on each power-train sale via royalty.
OTOH, VW is partial owner of Suzuki. It can start supplying engines for cars and start earning loyalty. So Fiat does not gain any advantage but would lose on revenue.
Well not likely, Don't think in the Technology transfer agreements Fiat would allow Suzuki to sell these engines to any third party.

At the end, i would just like to echo this sentiment of firebird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
Even if Alfa is sold at 1.5 million INR, I will still prefer buying similar price bracket Chevy / FORD / MARUTI / Hyundai
I will let Fiat-India show some intent first before I ever shop or reccomend it to anyone.

Last edited by anu21v : 3rd March 2011 at 12:54.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 12:53   #122
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by anu21v View Post
Well not likely, Don't think in the Technology transfer agreements Fiat would allow Suzuki to sell these engines to any third party.
Fiat does not come into this picture. VW has diesel powertrain and it can supply that to Suzuki.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 13:25   #123
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

Good to see VW sales picking up slowly but steadily. After the new Passat and Jetta, it will have the most complete and balanced line up and things can get only better. They have to take care of the after-sales though and bring out something very special. Very difficult to take a pick even among so many manufacturers here. Something I don't understand.

Honda should have seen this coming. The sales of the City have been high primarily because of the image left by the first 2 models in India coupled with lack of genuine options and not because it makes a car that justifies the price-tag. It is one brand which shows how much reputation matters. With Skoda's new line-up, things began to change. It's been a while since Skoda has dethroned the Civic and Accord. It takes two to tango and with the VW, tango it is!

Fiat seems to be in a very difficult spot. Amazing products with a poor marketing department and worse after-sales. Multiple problems for them. Would be interesting to see if they can get out of it. To start-off, they need to get out of the tata alliance..and get out fast!

Volvo is another example of superb product line-up with a poor sales network. Would like to know about their plans in idea with respect to the network. Can someone throw some light?

The next 2 years will redefine the Indian automobile market. My picks - BMW, Hyundai and VW. Peugeot and Renault could pack a surprise.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 13:36   #124
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
Sounds strange. Why would any one buy a car if not needed unless it is given for free. I don't think they can or will make it mandatory. They can only offer a better deal and entice their employees. Please clarify?
My cousin who is a vendor for TATA MOTORS (Truck division) has been strongly recommended to pick up a NANO. Obviously the choice remains with him but then for vendors it actually means they have to pick it up to oblige and its more or less mandatory for him to pick it up.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 13:44   #125
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Fiat does not come into this picture. VW has diesel powertrain and it can supply that to Suzuki.
Oh yes. Apologies for misreading it.


when can we see Excel sheet for this month sales? someone pls post it. I am itching to make some graphs on these numbers

Last edited by anu21v : 3rd March 2011 at 13:47.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 16:34   #126
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

Great report as usual GTO.

Small Car

Alto seems to keep adding pace from its 2nd position runner ( i10)

i10 is a great car ( except for a bit bumpy ride) and no wonder continues to win people's heart.

Two things that I failed to understand is who are the people who still buy a Wagon R and Estillo ( both good numbers) with so many new models available as options.

Beat seems to have stagnated at 3K. Wonder why?

Mid-Size Sedans

ANHC down due to recall issue and sales will go down further with SX4 priced same. Even if you dont add diesel numbers, SX4 has blown the competition away with its sheer numbers. Its a huge surprise. Whew!

Luxury Sedans

I am happy to see Cruze keeping its ground and gaining a wee bit. Would love to see it go over a grand. With some cosmetic changes, lets see if they make any drastic changes in March/April.

Laura and Civic with almost same numbers seem to be just holding ground.

I have a strong feeling Civic has completely lost its charm and these numbers are also possible only due to a heavy discount on it ( Rs.80,000)

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Old 3rd March 2011, 16:49   #127
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Two things that I failed to understand is who are the people who still buy a Wagon R and Estillo ( both good numbers) with so many new models available as options.
Alto (earlier 800) have a huge customer base.

Large part of this customer segment would upgrade to 3 - 5 lakh cars. If they want to stick to Maruti, Wagon R seems to be the obvious choice.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 17:38   #128
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

Thanks GTO!!

From what I see, Fiat should go the Mahindra-Renault way. Once the JV between the two ended, look at the sales figures of Logan: a steep increase to 1000+ from 200 odd.

Time for Fiat & Tata to part as good friends, if Fiat really wants to exist in India.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 20:03   #129
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by k.chandiok View Post
My cousin who is a vendor for TATA MOTORS (Truck division) has been strongly recommended to pick up a NANO. Obviously the choice remains with him but then for vendors it actually means they have to pick it up to oblige and its more or less mandatory for him to pick it up.
Initially you say mandatory and now you say recommended. Strange change of terminology. Your initial post sounded like that is a procedure tata is following with all emloyees/vendors. Now you talk of one single incident. Are you really meaning to say the vendor is going to lose business if he does not buy nano. I see something fishy about your posts.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 21:02   #130
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by scuderiamania View Post
Although I know that this has been mentioned before[ in threads where the dismal sales of fiat has been discussed] even then I would like to point out the fact that I think what really hurts Fiat is selling their car out of Tata showrooms.

This is probably how things go wrong: A buyer looking to enquire about about a G punto[/linea] enters a tata showroom. He looks around to see what features are offered and at what price point. Then, since he already in a tata showroom, he decides to check out the indica[/manza]. He is surprised to see that that the tata cars are providing almost all the features that are there in the fiat cars but at a lower price point. So most of them decide to either go for the indica[/manza] or look at cars from other companies.

The average indian car buyer will not understand the difference between the quality of the two products[the fact the tata have actually improved a lot in quality makes it even harder]. For them "blue and me" and "Blue5" is all the same. Both seats 5 people. both have ac and power windows. For someone looking to travel from point A to point B in decent style and comfort, it just simply doesn't make sense to buy a fiat afterlooking at tata.

It is imperative that Fiat slowly start moving out of the tata showrooms and service centres and setting up their own places.
I would like to differ on this point, no offence meant. The hypothesis proposed by you considers basic premises that potential buyer will go to one show room / brand only, which is quite incorrect even in theory. In normal condition buyer will do through research, visit multiple showrooms take test drive of different brands and then make decision. As everyone pointed out the cause for dismal performance of Fiat is perception buyer had, else all other vehicle / brands have some or the other issues but still able to sell their vehicles in good numbers.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 22:05   #131
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Alto seems to keep adding pace from its 2nd position runner ( i10)

i10 is a great car (except for a bit bumpy ride) and no wonder continues to win people's heart.

Two things that I failed to understand is who are the people who still buy a Wagon R and Estillo ( both good numbers) with so many new models available as options.
The gap between the Alto and the I10 is indeed huge. These two best-sellers have a loyal fan base and it is not difficult to see why. For the masses, the Alto is a perfect starting point for the "thrills on wheels", while the I10 is the perfect starting point for the "frills on wheels".

Also, an unusual feature in common for these two cars is the twin-petrol only option, as opposed to other cars that have a twin-fuel (petrol/diesel) option. This twin-petrol engine option widens its customer base, thereby boosting their sales.

In my opinion, the I10 has generated impressive sales in the midst of growing petrol prices as well as a congested hatch market in the Rs 3.5-6 Lakh category. Consider that the I10 variants are pitted against Wagon-R, A-Star, Estillo, Ritz and Swift (Maruti), Indica and Vista (Tata), Figo (Ford), Spark and Beat (GM), Micra (Nissan) and Polo (VW). Many claim that the Beat has not sold well as it does not have a diesel option. Well, the same can be said of the I10 as it too does not have a diesel variant. Clearly, the I10 has been attracting customers in large numbers. Its twin-petrol engine options as well as a wide spectrum of variants (from D-lite to Asta) seem to cater to a wide range of buyers.

Incidentally, what surprises me is the sales of the M800 and the Omni. With cheaper (Nano) and better (Alto) options around, why would people still want to buy the M800? Second, with a better and newer option in the form of Eeco, why would people still buy the Omni? I think the Eeco is an excellent vehicle for its intended customer base. If Maruti had fitted it (no, I am NOT going to use the word 'plonk', as there seems to be an obsession to plonk 'plonk' in many posts of this forum) with a diesel option, the sales would have hit the roof.

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Old 4th March 2011, 08:57   #132
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
Initially you say mandatory and now you say recommended. Strange change of terminology. Your initial post sounded like that is a procedure tata is following with all emloyees/vendors. Now you talk of one single incident. Are you really meaning to say the vendor is going to lose business if he does not buy nano. I see something fishy about your posts.
Actually my bad - i wrote what i made out of it. But yes they have been asked to pick up the nano. In fact he was given some form to fill out. Since he is based in pune and he was asked by the lucknow management he could fend off and said he will fill the form in pune and submit there. He has fellow vendors who have picked it. I will keep you posted when he picks up his car.

Btw, I own a Punto myself and I don't work for any automobile manufactor so dude there is nothing fishy. Just thought will share this information with you guys
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Old 4th March 2011, 11:01   #133
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Basic question - what is the source of the monthly model-wise despatch to dealers and why is it that this data is normally not readily available in the media? Do the auto manufacturers stand by this data?

Fiat
Linea : 757
Punto : 1082

Is it possible to get the break-up of Lineas sold in terms of old petrol Linea, diesel Linea and Linea T-Jet and the break-up of petrol & diesel Puntos?

Last edited by mobike008 : 5th March 2011 at 17:48. Reason: Back to back posts. Please wait for 20 minutes before you make your next post or use EDIT button. Thanks
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Old 4th March 2011, 11:30   #134
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post

Two things that I failed to understand is who are the people who still buy a Wagon R and Estillo ( both good numbers) with so many new models available as options.
Maruti has a wide dealer network and this plays a very important role here.

Many of my friends and relatives working in Defence are loyal Maruti customers (including my sis) because of wide dealer network for in-time service and availability of Maruti vehicles from CSD.
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Old 4th March 2011, 11:59   #135
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Default Re: February 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures

As a Chevy family member, I am pleased with GM India numbers. Optra at 350+ is decent improvement from July 2010 when they struggled to sell 200 odd numbers. Cruze seems to stabilise at 750-800 figures. Beat at 3100+ numbers looks good too, doing better than sibling Spark

Last edited by drive_or_die : 4th March 2011 at 12:01.
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