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Old 10th March 2011, 14:39   #61
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
I don't get this. Maruti's annual sales are at 1M+. Assuming even half a million from the rest of them, annual sales at present much be more than 1.5M. The above 3 combined are at less than 20K. Ok so it's not 0.1% but about 1% combined.
In India, Audi does not have a wide customer base like Maruti/Hyundai/Tata. (read affordability)

It is a luxury car maker and has a 20% share in the segment it operates.
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Old 10th March 2011, 15:05   #62
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

The latest update is that all these big guys with SIAM reps have raised their concern, the govt stand is the issue has been misinterpreted. Soon there will be a clarification on the same. I read the same in todays HT.
here is the link
http://www.hindustantimes.com/New-CK...e1-671439.aspx

Last edited by v&v : 10th March 2011 at 15:08.
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Old 10th March 2011, 15:22   #63
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

if the assembled engine route happens expect the following:

BMW assemble the 2.0d - enough volume for x1, x3, 3, 5

VAG - 2.0d, 1.8tfsi for jetta, yeti, laura, passat, superb, a4, a6, q5

mercedes - 4cyl diesels for e and C

Expect to see a narrow range of cars limited by one engine to justify volumes
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Old 10th March 2011, 16:02   #64
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

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if the assembled engine route happens expect the following:
BMW assemble the 2.0d - enough volume for x1, x3, 3, 5
VAG - 2.0d, 1.8tfsi for jetta, yeti, laura, passat, superb, a4, a6, q5
mercedes - 4cyl diesels for e and C
Expect to see a narrow range of cars limited by one engine to justify volumes
Yep, totally agree

But that should also see prices of these models going down further due to local manufacturing (read total assembly) with possibly some of the components even being locally procured.

Merc also does share the 3.5L diesels between the E, S, ML and GL in different states of tune and they could continue that as well.

Simlarly the lower end Engines that go in the Audi Q7/A8 could go into the A4, A6 on the lower end.

So each company could then have a line up of 2 engines that they locally CKD manufacture and 1 top of the line engine that they import in the top of the line modes as a CBU.

Besides VW, Audi and Skoda could share engines (base for Audi and top for VW and Skoda)

Decent numbers are possible through these combination. Yes these are not mass market numbers but we are anyways even today paying a premium for the lower numbers.

It about the will do take a calculated risk and go full fledged.
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Old 10th March 2011, 16:23   #65
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

The intention of increasing the duty on assembled engines, gear boxes etc. is good and is mainly to encourage domestic manufacturers and deter imports, in principle this right. However a sudden change in the definition of CKD will be detrimental overall for the auto sector.

A phased wise change would have made much more sense as automobile sector is quite complex ,setting up manufacturing plant and developing vendors capabilities takes considerable amount of time , energy and capital. A lot of forward looking planning goes into it, any change told today might take 6 months to a year or longer to implement.

Policy related uncertainties will definitely shake the confidence of the industry in the long run ,definitely bad for all of us.
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Old 10th March 2011, 17:11   #66
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
VW and Skoda have been producing mass market products whereas Audi targets only the Class market where the sales figures are not that eye popping. can you imagine Audi or Merc or BMW introducing an affordable hatch for the Indian market in the 4-6L rupees range. Thats highly impossible.
Actually, if you read the TopGear Magazine March Edition, BMW is working on building a front wheel drive small car platform keeping both the European and the developing market in mind. A lot of investment and effot has already gone in into that platform. So seeing a BMW FWD hatch in affordable price range (definitely not the 4-6L - but possibly 6-10L) will no longer remain a dream.
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Old 10th March 2011, 17:26   #67
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Yep, totally agree

Merc also does share the 3.5L diesels between the E, S, ML and GL in different states of tune and they could continue that as well.

Simlarly the lower end Engines that go in the Audi Q7/A8 could go into the A4, A6 on the lower end.

.
Am not sure if there is enough volume for the 6 cyl engines overall whether merc or audi. However one trick could be to assemble the engines here for export

ie Merc assemble in Malaysia,Indonesia, Thailand but not diesels
Audi assemble in Phillipines, Indonesia (i think)
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Old 10th March 2011, 18:28   #68
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

BSM Feb 8, 2011 Audi plans Indian auto finance firm

BSM Feb 19, 2011 Audi-acious - Audiís plans for 2011 and 2012

ET Feb 21, 2011 Audi plans to double capacity at Aurangabad facility by '12

NDTV Mar 7, 2011 Audiís India sales grew by 79% in February 2011

YAHOO Mar 8, 2011 Audi aims to sell 30,000 cars in India by 2020

CNEB Mar 8, 2011 Audi aims to sell 30,000 cars in India by 2020

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Old 10th March 2011, 18:40   #69
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

Audi should be the one with lead position over here.

Not only do they assemble the cars already in Aurangabad, they use the same 2.0 diesel as the cheaper Skoda which I am pretty sure is assembled here.

Nothing but a lobbying tactic.
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Old 10th March 2011, 18:53   #70
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

+1 to whatever ACM has said till now.

The GOI has not suddenly changed the definition. This IS the definition. Thank God they have finally put it on paper. Otherwise, you have companies importing the car in pieces and hiring 5 screwdriver totting boys to assemble it.
That is NOT really assembling. It is a joke to see it taxed so much lower than the CBUs.

And from what I understand, these cars do cost ~ 10-15 lacs (A3s, A4s and all) in the US. I am sure that there is a big and growing market at that price point.

And to everyone concerned about protectionism, who do you think the GOI is protecting? Hyundai, Suzuki? Any company can come and start operations through their subsidiary in India. There is no protectionism in this industry at least!

And hasn't Nissan established India as a manufacturing hub? Does anyone believe that the number of Micras they sell would justify a whole manufacturing center?

With reasonable steel prices, cheap labor and improving infrastructure, India is a great investment destination for the automotive industry.

Can someone clarify how this definition will coexist with the EU/Japan FTAs? If they remain in effect, then it wouldn't be too expensive to source parts and then properly assemble the car in India.

I will be surprised to see Audi leave. Hope the GOI bans VAG from operating in India if that happens :P (there are enough companies in the world to replace them with)
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Old 10th March 2011, 19:33   #71
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

While I seriously hope this does not happen, but even if it does my opinion is that it may create a bit of a hype and stir for 2-3 months max but soon with time people will just move on and start buying as usual, consider the S-Class in 2005 was about 61.50 Ex-Showroom (W220) model, and today it's about 90L and the sales are pretty much 5 times of what they were then and at the end of the day anyone and everyone who intends to buy the cars will buy it, yes they may loose out on few who buy them on a tight budget but I think that number will be minor compared to the growing number of people buying the cars.

The above is only my opinion and I could be wrong so not exactly trying to say I am 100% correct, but keeping fingers crossed and hope there is a more reasonable output. And I think the statment about Audi is just taken out of context and not something they are seriously considering and media is just blowing it up in various avatars.

Regards,
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Old 10th March 2011, 20:57   #72
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

@EssYouWe I had raised this point before,but you have to realise Nissan has invested so much because they intend to export bulk of their produce which justifies their volumes.
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Old 10th March 2011, 22:33   #73
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

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Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
Remember the '90s, with smoke spewing cars and commercial vehicles on our streets? The Government took a decision that pollution levels had to come under control. But they gave a well published long term plan on how to do it, starting with India 2000 norms and moving to BS IV in 2010.
While there sure was a road map leading to BSIV by 2010. the Govt was forced to design and implement it. AFAIK there were numerous high court and a couple of supreme court orders/directives regarding this matter; many of the petitions were filed by NGOs. The GOI was forced by the judiciary to act.

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 10th March 2011 at 22:34.
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Old 10th March 2011, 23:07   #74
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

Let's not forget the duty for CBU may come down by as much as 38% after India signs the EU trade agreement in April, so the price hike may not be as bad as we are predicting here.

Related thread: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...astically.html
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Old 10th March 2011, 23:47   #75
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Default Re: Audi planning to exit India in the backdrop of recent budget proposals

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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
The GOI has not suddenly changed the definition. This IS the definition.
+1 to that. The industry has been using the loop hole for years now and when it is closed they start complaning.


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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Food for thought, what if developed nations decide to put similar tarriffs on Indian exports, for example IT?
These things are already happening in developed countries. They only talk about free trade when it benefits them. People have to be wise enough to notice them. Some examples:
1. Visa issue with US and Europe: Govts have made it hard for indian companies to get visa's for onshore work. Well, forget indian companies, companies owned by indian origin americans in US also find it hard get h1's.
2. Public sector not allowed to outsource.
3. Industries like garment exports.

WTO defines trade as goods and services. By restricting the visa's they are not allowing free trade/services.

Even US has additional tax for vehicles which are imported.

If we did not have tax on vehicles imported to begin with then only companies having manufacturing plants in India will be tata/mahindra. Every one else would have imported causing a loss of 1000's of manufacturing jobs in india.

Last edited by airbender : 10th March 2011 at 23:52.
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