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Old 15th January 2006, 07:40   #61
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Originally Posted by Mpower
Even though FIAT ASS problems appear to be fixed, the product still has a major flaw. The 1.6 is too thirsty and although the 1.2 is less thirsty it is neither perky nor as FE as rivals.

Fiat is straddled with offering 2 petrol engines where rivals are selling 10 times more cars with just 1 engine option. The Answer, launch a engine between 1.6 and 1.2 that will hit the bullseye w.r.t customer expectations.

The 1.6 engine in both that petra and palio have give people Fuel Efficiency between 8-12. That's perfectly normal considering many japanese companies cut down on the steel used to reduce weight and increase performance and wow the Indian public

1.2 engine in the palio Nv gives 12kmpl against the competitions 13 of santro and 14kmpl of the wagonR and zen.

IN comparision palio is

better looking
better built
safer
more comfortable
better highway stability.


city driving in comparision is sometimes tacky due to the thick poor all round visibility.


I dont think palio is not Fuel-efficient. The statement should be put as

some japanese cars are more Fuel-efficient.
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Old 15th January 2006, 10:20   #62
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Originally Posted by amit
I don't know where this theory came from. I have owned a 1.6 Palio for over 2 years and I never found the engine to be thirsty. I don't know why 9-10 kmpl from a Ford Ikon 1.6 or a Hyundai Accent 1.5 is acceptable but the same mileage from a Fiat Palio 1.6 is not. Mind you, we are talking about a DOHC 16 valve engine thats shamelessly designed for driving pleasure. I have heard many people say the mileage of Accent/Ikon is okay because they are sedans (badi gaadi or dikiwali gadi) and therefore their mileage is perfectly normal for a car of this size? (Should'nt it be engine of this size?)

Put the 1.2 FIRE engine in a Santro and then check the mileage. Similarly, put the Santro's 1.1L engine into the Palio and then check the mileage provided you can actually make the Palio move with that "xing erlx" engine.
Well said. My GTX has never given me less than 8kmpl anytime even with my spirited driving and averages close to 9kmpl consistently.

I just hope Fiat launches a car better than the Palio which I can buy once I am done with the GTX.
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Old 15th January 2006, 10:48   #63
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Guys, 8-10 kpl is OK for me too but this is the public opinion on the Palio-Petra twins.
Both Baleno and the OHC offer similar engine thrills without sacrificing FE. FIAT should be thinking on these lines.
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Old 15th January 2006, 12:20   #64
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guys i have one confusion maruti is supposed to get the 1.3jtd engine from fiat and i think fiat might not do this task,I am not sure because its just a thought .how will they stratergise tata fiat as it cant let a good engine slip directly to the particular company /model tehy are up against.

Last edited by trinadha : 15th January 2006 at 12:23.
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Old 15th January 2006, 18:34   #65
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Thats why I did not see a diesel swift on display and the Maruti guys were saying that there is no plans atleast will dec. Looks like Tata Fiat alliance has upset the apple cart. Nobody expected that Tata will start actually manufacturing and selling fiat cars as early as MArch!
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Old 16th January 2006, 15:23   #66
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Originally Posted by trinadha
guys i have one confusion maruti is supposed to get the 1.3jtd engine from fiat and i think fiat might not do this task,I am not sure because its just a thought .how will they stratergise tata fiat as it cant let a good engine slip directly to the particular company /model tehy are up against.
Cut throat competition among auto manufacturers the world over is responsible for creating all sorts of tie-ups and alliances that one could not even imagine earlier. FIAT-Maruti tie-up for the 1.3JTD engine seems to be progressing well as per Maruti MD's interview at Auto Expo and according to him Maruti diesel vehicles fitted with the 1.3JTD engineare expected to roll out by the end of 2006. I would not be surprised if Maruti also becomes part of the TATA-FIAT tie-up. Tata is keen to have FIAT's famous technology. If Tata shows interest in 1.3 JTD or 1.9 JTD, then it will be more economical for it to source the engines from the Maruti plant rather than manufacture them parallely in its own plant.
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Old 16th January 2006, 18:36   #67
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Originally Posted by tsk1979
Thats why I did not see a diesel swift on display and the Maruti guys were saying that there is no plans atleast will dec. Looks like Tata Fiat alliance has upset the apple cart. Nobody expected that Tata will start actually manufacturing and selling fiat cars as early as MArch!
I had a chance to speak to one of TATA's person who told me that at this time FIAT will manufacture cars while TATA will take care of Sales and Service
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Old 16th January 2006, 18:48   #68
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I had a chance to speak to one of TATA's person who told me that at this time FIAT will manufacture cars while TATA will take care of Sales and Service
does this mean that the price has to be hiked or else profits would not be large for both the companies
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Old 16th January 2006, 19:55   #69
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I did not see a diesel swift on display and the Maruti guys were saying that there is no plans atleast will dec. Looks like Tata Fiat alliance has upset the apple cart.
I don't think the deal with TATA will result in Fiat not handing over the diesel technology to Maruti. The Swift is already avaliable in UK with the diesel engine. It's being called DDis and not Multi-jet though. But yea this technology sharing will get confusing. There could be 3 cars and their sedan variants avaliable with the same engine with different nomenclatures. Since it's Fiat's technology, they should probably have some better leverage on this. Maybe Maruti and TATA will only get the 1.3 but Fiat will also get the 1.9? It makes sense to me. If that happens, it will be time for motoring nirvana once more. The Palio and Grande Punto could end up as India's first performace diesel hatches. 1.9JTD 130HP with 6 speed Manual transmission.
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Old 17th January 2006, 06:18   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinadha
does this mean that the price has to be hiked or else profits would not be large for both the companies

tata will be just minting money without much costs except the logistics.

fiat will make a bigger profit now that their cars will sell in bigger numbers. currently they are selling the cars at huge discount and later the dicount amount will be paid to tata.

under any situation both the companies are gaining.

Hyundai will be in real trouble if fiat sales take a hike along with tata cars under the tata brand name.
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Old 17th January 2006, 06:28   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinadha
does this mean that the price has to be hiked or else profits would not be large for both the companies
What I worry is how are you going to keep these two products from eating each other's sales, especially when they are sold under the same roof ?

If you look at it, both TATA and FIAT are essentialy one product (car) companies and both their products are large hatches (both designed by IDEA...go figure!) with a sedan derivative and neither has a good petrol engine or an DI engine on offer.

They have to somehow attract the Swift/Getz/Corsa buyer and still keep all the Indica buyers.
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Old 17th January 2006, 06:54   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
What I worry is how are you going to keep these two products from eating each other's sales, especially when they are sold under the same roof ?

If you look at it, both TATA and FIAT are essentialy one product (car) companies and both their products are large hatches (both designed by IDEA...go figure!) with a sedan derivative and neither has a good petrol engine or an DI engine on offer.

They have to somehow attract the Swift/Getz/Corsa buyer and still keep all the Indica buyers.

if you see at the market positioning then you will find that

tata has reduced the price for Indica. expect palio prices to climb. Indica would be a economy model while Palio will be much higer in price.

same goes for petra nad indigo and adventure and marina.
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Old 17th January 2006, 10:24   #73
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In the indica space you could have the petrol model with Indica at bottom and Palio at top, with Diesels being sole forte of indica as the fiat old diesel is pits.
In the marina space since indigo XL will be in 6.5L bracket I doubt advent etc., will be kept alive. Tata is coming with a 100PS engine, for the XL, and a dicor later this year. Its all gonna be clear in march when Fiat cars are actually being sold through tata.
Another observation, the Fiat Palio was on display in tata stall, but not Petra. Is this the demise of the Fiat saloons?
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Old 17th January 2006, 10:32   #74
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Originally Posted by GTO
Spot on! And great find TSK.

If Tata indeed supports the Palio, and they have a flaming Red 1.6 GTX on offer.....thats my next car!!

GTO
So can we expect a new avatar in place of that Jeep?
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Old 17th January 2006, 13:16   #75
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Originally Posted by tsk1979
Another observation, the Fiat Palio was on display in tata stall, but not Petra. Is this the demise of the Fiat saloons?
May be, but one more reason can be that it directly competes with Indigo in pricing front and no company would want to showcase product from another company even if there is friendly alliance. The alliance between the two so far is only about sales and support through select Tata dealer network and nothing else (As far as the offical story goes).
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