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Old 18th January 2006, 08:44   #1
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Default Death knell for Palio 1.2 :-(

The announcement of Tata Indica Xeta (1.4L) 70 bhp for 2.94 lacs rang the death knell for Palio 1.2 NV. The most probabale positisioing of TATA/FIAT petrol vehicles would be like this.

Tata Indica Xeta Vs Alto, Santro XP/XK, Wagon R Lxi
Palio 1.6 Sports Vs Swift/Getz/Aveo

FIAT has killed another beauty along with FIAT 118 and Uno. We still we own a FIAT 118 (ofcourse its not running), its rear seat space will put lots of D segment car in shame.

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Prasanna

Palio 1.2 (2002)/Tangerine Mist/20000km/chennai
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Old 18th January 2006, 09:03   #2
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Whoa! Was there a official announcement from Fiat to this effect? I sincerely think Fiat shouldnt do this...
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Old 18th January 2006, 11:45   #3
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It sounds logical even if not officially announced as yet. Palio1.2 will have to compete with these cars because of its engine size. Now when a company goes for a marketing and sales arrangement with a local company it will rely on its advices to a big extent. I am sure Tatas will say 'No-Go' to Palio1.2 at its current price and even the Fiat has seen that till date. And if it had been possible for Fiat to further bring down the prices to make it competetive in the segment they would have done so long ago.

For them it is just a matter of withdrawing an engine option from the market if it is not practically feasible to sell it. They will persist with the higher end ones like GTX.

Cheer up guys... Palio is not dead, its only an engine option that gets withdrawn (if so happens). :-)
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Old 18th January 2006, 12:07   #4
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IMHO, Palio 1.2 NV is not a practical City car. I say this because i have extensively driven my friend's 1.2. Not only it is underpowerd for that much weight, visibility is also a problem with thick pillars. The FE is not something to write home about either. However, i have had no experience with the 1.6. But feedback from people suggests that it is an excellent driver's car.

Palio 1.2 nv isnt going to sell much anyhow, so its immaterial whether they discontinue it or not.
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Old 18th January 2006, 12:12   #5
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dceite your right. The 1.2 NV takes whole of 20 secs to reach 100kmph. Thats not only slow but sluggish. Wither you compromise on FE for power or power for FE, but here both ways a loser, so i guess its the right step from Fiat/Tata.
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Old 18th January 2006, 13:21   #6
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The palio1.2 is not that bad a city car.....Especially with our country's city roads with full of potholes it gives u amazing ride quality....like no other hatchback in the country.....Its true with those soft suspension the handling will go for a toss with lot of body roll present which even i have experienced...Sure it wont be great on highways with its 1.2l engine pulling all that weight....but its quite peppy for city thanks to its Maranello Marinetti management system...
BUSA- I think a palio has much more to offer than 0-100 figures....
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Old 18th January 2006, 13:30   #7
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Well, the Palio 1.2 is a better overall product than the Indica Petrol and has wider market acceptance.

So if Tata were to discontinue between one of the two petrol hatchbacks in their soon-to-be Tata Fiat portfolio...which would they choose?

GTO
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Old 18th January 2006, 13:35   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
Well, the Palio 1.2 is a better overall product than the Indica Petrol and has wider market acceptance.

So if Tata were to discontinue between one of the two petrol hatchbacks in their soon-to-be Tata Fiat portfolio...which would they choose?

GTO
They will plant the palio 1.2 or 1.6l engines in their tata indicas as they both share similar rugged body structures....
How will it be to see a indica 1.6 GTX engine....sounds freaky....
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Old 18th January 2006, 13:51   #9
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I agree kpzen palio 12 has more to offer then 0 - 100 but a small car with no power and poor drinking habits wont be accpeted by the general public with fuel prices always on the rise why would one want to buy a car which wont give him adrenaline rush nor efficency?
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:22   #10
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I do not think Tata-Fiat combine is planning to kick off Palio 1.2. In my opinion, Tata has reduced Indica petrol's prices because they want to position it as a low-price product and they are planning on keeping Palio 1.2 as the "niche product" in that segment. How they market it is to be seen. If you see the number of Palios sold (I know there aren't many, but still ...), most of them are 1.2s. I have one too because I couldn't afford their diesel or 1.6 option at the time of buying

As someone remarked, 1.2's soft suspension is a boon in the cities. As long as you know its limitations on the highway, it is a good car. I have not driven the 1.6 version to make a comment on that car.
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:41   #11
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Palio 1.2 is better built product. not a better product. If you look at 0-100 times, Torque etc., indica is better. But problem is poor fit and finish. If Indica Petrol gets rid of the niggling electrical problems which are bane for Tata cars, its actually an amazing machine.
As for 1.2 I think it will be positioned above the indica in the swift space. Who knows some engine retuning can pump it up top 80bhp?
Also as tata is developing a 100bhp petrol engine, this could come with this new Palio. So you have 70bhp indica competing with Alto and 4.5L 100bhp Fiat Palio competing with Swifts and Getz.
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:50   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
4.5L 100bhp
Is it 1.5 L with 100 bhp?
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:53   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surprise
Is it 1.5 L with 100 bhp?
I guess he meant 4.5 lakhs.
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:53   #14
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Sorry 1.4L 100bhp. same cast iron block, different head maybe DOHC, 4.5L meant 4.5Lakhs
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:58   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakhon
I do not think Tata-Fiat combine is planning to kick off Palio 1.2. In my opinion, Tata has reduced Indica petrol's prices because they want to position it as a low-price product and they are planning on keeping Palio 1.2 as the "niche product" in that segment. How they market it is to be seen. If you see the number of Palios sold (I know there aren't many, but still ...), most of them are 1.2s. I have one too because I couldn't afford their diesel or 1.6 option at the time of buying

As someone remarked, 1.2's soft suspension is a boon in the cities. As long as you know its limitations on the highway, it is a good car. I have not driven the 1.6 version to make a comment on that car.
How is the Palio 1.2 a 'niche' product and why would someone want to buy the 1.2 over everything else available in the market today?

We're reading too much into this alliance. Do you seriously expect Tata to downgrade its brand to junk when its selling over 120,000 of those (maybe diesel, but same brand - bring the brand downmarket and you'll take the diesel down too) just to accomodate what is basically seen in the market as a 'failed product' ????

I would agree that the Palio 1.6 is a good car to bring out and take on the Swifts and the Getz of the world, but the 1.2 makes no sense especially when Tata is trying to reinvent its own petrol engine.

I dont think we're seeing the whole picture here, gents - or in other threads relating to this alliance. We're all gung-ho about getting Palios again, but to be quite frank, how is the market going to respond to a product that has been launched and re-launched unsuccessfully over the last 4 years? Do you seriously think Tata is going to vacate its stage to allow the Palio to take over a market it has built with a lot of difficult (both for the company AND its customers, LOL) over the last 8 years or so?

THere must be more to it. I dont think the Tata Fiat alliance is about bringing back the Palio alone. The fact that you're not looking beyond the Palio shows how short-sighted emotion can make one. I for one dont see ANY advantage being derived by Tata from this alliance if the sole aim is to make Palio lovers happy. They are very philanthropic, but they're not fools.

Let us await the details and see what else is there to come. Unlike most other people here, I do not see the Tata Fiat alliance as just an arrangement to resurrect a product that has failed in the market. Obviously Fiat are not on top in this bargain (they cant be, with their current position) and so its unrealistic to assume that Tata are so glad to see Fiat cars that they're willing to move over and abdicate their throne - which is the inference one would tend to make if one were to go by the content of all the threads here.

Like I said, there must be more to it. I wont be surprised if it involves commercial vehicles as well. Wait and watch - either this alliance will reshape the industry, or it will fizzle out pretty soon if there isnt enough to keep the Tata's interest in this deal.
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