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Old 31st May 2011, 11:09   #1
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Default FMSCI - is it a National Sports Federation (Indian Government)?

FMSCI website as well as licence application forms claim that it is recognised as the National Sports Federation for motorsports in India.

However, the Ministry website for Department of Sports, here, http://yas.nic.in/writereaddata/link...2544648041.pdf
does not show the FMSCI or any other motorsports federation as having been given recognition for the year 2011.

Any idea what is going on, and why is this happening, so close to what is becoming an amazingly controversial Formula One (Formula None?) event.
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Old 31st May 2011, 12:37   #2
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Default Re: FMSCI - is it a National Sports Federation (Indian Government)?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
FMSCI website as well as licence application forms claim that it is recognised as the National Sports Federation for motorsports in India.

However, the Ministry website for Department of Sports, here, http://yas.nic.in/writereaddata/link...2544648041.pdf
does not show the FMSCI or any other motorsports federation as having been given recognition for the year 2011.

Any idea what is going on, and why is this happening, so close to what is becoming an amazingly controversial Formula One (Formula None?) event.
Malq,

I will try to answer this within the limited knowledge I have. Others more in know of things will/may be able to explain this better

Goverment of India does not recognise "Motorsport" as a "sport". Hence, none of the Motorsport entities will figure in the Ministry Website.

Federation Internationale de L’Automobile. Federation International Automobile - in English) or known as FIA is the apex world body of majority of Motorsport organisations in the world and their recognised associate in India is FMSCI.

To quote FIA website:
"The FIA is also the governing body for motor sport worldwide. It administers the rules and regulations for all international four-wheel motor sport including the FIA Formula One World Championship, FIA World Rally Championship and FIA World Touring Car Championship"

Formula1 is a fiercely independent Commercial Frachice from FIA and always organises the F1 event independently without any financial supports from Goverments (though you can question certain events like Bahrain, Singapore, UAE, Malay etc, which are having Goverment backing as a Tourism Promotional event).

The Organisational supports in the form of Security, immigration issues, flight clearances, helicopter rescue etc usually is done with Govermental assistance

In India as well this is going to be a 100% private initiative of Jaypee Group as promoters/Organisers

FMSCI's role is that of the Sporting Organiser of the event. In otherwords, the Administration of the Competetion including implementation of rules of competetion, technical details of the cars, technical suppliers and the trained manpower to supervise (Marshall) all of these aspects will be the responsibility of FMSCI.

So don't get confused about FMSCI not having recgnition of Sports Ministry. I don't think you can find the name of BCCI or Cricket in that list. Does that make Cricket any less popular or not be played?

So the "amazingly controversial Formula 1" hopefully will be a big success like the IPL (at least that is my hope).

The list esentially are the "Olympic Sports (Asiad Sports)" which gets state funding through the Union Sports Department entities and State Sports Councils etc.

Hope I have managed to confuse you further

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 31st May 2011, 12:48   #3
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Default Re: FMSCI - is it a National Sports Federation (Indian Government)?

Thank you, Ram, but please see here, from FMSCI's website as well as other documents, like "licences" issued by FMSCI, all claiming this "recognition".

.:: The Federation of Motor Sports Clubs of India ::.

""The FMSCI is the only national motor sport federation recognised by the Government of India for the promotion and control of motor sport in India, and is affiliated to the prestigious Indian Olympic Association.""

+++

Either FMSCI is "fiercely independent commercial franchise" as you say, or it is not - and if so, then all sorts of issues like government funding for allied issues as was the case in the CWG/IOA scam come to the fore. Even withdrawal of entertainment tax will be an issue.

IOA and CWG said the same thing - fiercely independendent. FIFA said the same thing. You are also saying the same thing. What does it mean?

On FMSCI implementing - what does that mean? Down to Marshalls, everybody and everything is coming from abroad, apparently we can not be trusted even to wave a flag. I saw the same thing decades ago when India was still what it was, because of which we had similar attitudes, but in this day and age, we have to suffer such stuff, it is absolutely incorrect - especially if there is any Indian Government support.

Was the latest IPL succesful? That's out for the jury.

Is the Formula One or FMSCI receiving or asking for Government support? Hard to say - but not something that can be kept down for long.

Humbly submitted.
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Old 31st May 2011, 13:49   #4
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Default Re: FMSCI - is it a National Sports Federation (Indian Government)?

As for cricket, the BCCI as an independent body (perhaps not explicitly as fiercely!) is free to do/ undo selections, prepare schedules etc without any dependency on the government. I think they had also submitted in court once that the cricket team is not an Indian team but actually a BCCI XI; they had to backtrack very quickly to avoid losing a majority fan base!

I am not sure of the status of FMSCI or their claims. IIRC, Mr. Kalmadi also has some stakes here through one of his organisations or perhaps his relatives.

IMHO, I dont think the Indian government has a stake in this event a la Bahrain/ Singapore/ UAE etc where it is more to promote tourism
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Old 31st May 2011, 14:23   #5
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Default Re: FMSCI - is it a National Sports Federation (Indian Government)?

Thank you, selfdrive, but this "Indian Government does not have a stake" was exactly the kind of argument IOA and CWG used in CIC and then in Court also - till proved otherwise that certainly there was a lot of public money involved in many ways - and therefore there was public accountability.

One small RTI to PMO, and all accounts on any public money that has directly gone to any FMSCI event, will emerge. Just the Jammu - Srinagar car rally/race is sufficient to establish this, with the kind of arrangements made. 3 weeks.

Next step, bring FMSCI to adhering to Ministry/Deptt. of Sports guidelines on transparency, as well as adherence to RTI. Up to them. But eventually they will have to adhere to the Laws of the Land.

Next step, take hissaab for last few decades, and audit them. If everything is hunky-dory, then why should anybody at FMSCI worry?

+++

Height of arrogance by Formula 1 organisers - in a Nation of 1 billion plus, they can not train a few hundred marshalls = while the tax payers end up paying for all the allied expenses including nobody knows what sort of land acquisition issues?

Some of us from my generation saw this attitude, and fought hard to get rid of it - oh you are Indians, you are not fit to fly your own planes, command your own ships, head your own armed forces, run your own country, build your own cars, write your own software, and so on and so forth. There were some who stood by and said "Haan bada saab haan bada saab" and then there were some of us who said, "like hell, chum, this is my country my flag -whether private or government owned - and we will do it."

Formula 1 is great, thank you, and as of now, who is paying how much hosting fees is not known but will soon emerge - private or Government. But let us have our pride, somewhere, especially on a race-track in our on country?
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Old 1st June 2011, 15:50   #6
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Default Re: FMSCI - is it a National Sports Federation (Indian Government)?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
One small RTI to PMO, and all accounts on any public money that has directly gone to any FMSCI event, will emerge. Just the Jammu - Srinagar car rally/race is sufficient to establish this, with the kind of arrangements made. 3 weeks.


Height of arrogance by Formula 1 organisers - in a Nation of 1 billion plus, they can not train a few hundred marshalls = while the tax payers end up paying for all the allied expenses including nobody knows what sort of land acquisition issues?

Some of us from my generation saw this attitude, and fought hard to get rid of it - oh you are Indians, you are not fit to fly your own planes, command your own ships, head your own armed forces, run your own country, build your own cars, write your own software, and so on and so forth. There were some who stood by and said "Haan bada saab haan bada saab" and then there were some of us who said, "like hell, chum, this is my country my flag -whether private or government owned - and we will do it."

Formula 1 is great, thank you, and as of now, who is paying how much hosting fees is not known but will soon emerge - private or Government. But let us have our pride, somewhere, especially on a race-track in our on country?
Malq,

The RTI Application - why do't you do that and let us all know the results.

Regarding the training:

I think you are getting things wrong here.

There is no thought as to Indian's not being capable or anything like that. The issue is however much you can train a person on the Theory of F1 Marshalling, there is nothing to it unless you have worked on an F1 hand on. For that matter at least in any of the Motorsport Tracks.

Unfortunately in India at this point of time only the Chennai Track is of some good standards, and all the Marshalls from there are being co-opted to F1 (as far as I am aware). The Kari Track of Coimbatore also will figure in this definitely.

If you believe it or not - the F1 Drivers do depend a lot on Marshalling signals for a safe race. I think it is asking too much from a a person hurling past in speeds of 350 kmph to put his faith on a group of people who have no experience in guiding/marshalling in such an event.

So the need is to have experienced Marshalls.

Believe me, its not the arrogance of the F1 organisers but the need of the situation. Find 700 F1 Experienced Marshalls in India - presto! there is no more need to bring in people from abroad.

Now world over, when new F1s happen the convention is as follows:

1st year of the Race

Marshal group consists of Experienced Marshalls (usually from another country where F1 is already Established) + Marshall selects from the host country. The Experienced Marshalls will be "Post Chiefs" with the National Marshalls being understudy as directed by the Post chief (foreign to national ratio usually 1:3)

2nd Year of the Race

Marshal group will still be of foreign Experienced Marshalls and National Experienced Marshalls + National New Marshalls. The National experienced marshall will be the Post Chief - supervised by the Foreign Experienced Marshall. The raio will be again 1: 3 with the role of the Foreign one changing to a supervisor/emergency action role

3rd Year of the Race

The Marshall Group will be entirely National Marshalls. Experience ones + New ones. The Foreign Marshalls may be there but very very few in number doing an overall supervison and coordination (can't see having more than 25 foreign Marshalls at this stage)

Believe me, this has happened in each of the F1s world over in the modern era.

Korea - our last new F1. The Marshalls - CAMS Australia was the people doing this for Koreans.

1st year they had about 200 CAMS Marshalls at the race. This year I understand that only about 75 will be out in Korea (this number is high but this is being done due to the English Language issues of the Koreans as the Race Control is in English)

This was the process that both Malaysia and Singapore went through in our own neighbourhood. For your information, this year on 12 CAMS personnel will be at Singapore F1

This was the process that Bahrain went through from 2004 to 2007 and Yas Marina Abudhabi is still going through (Bahrain and Hungarian Marshalls still support at Yas)

In India - for 1st year Bahrain is providing bulk of the experienced Marshalls - about 100-125 from the total Marshall requirement of about 700 personnel (including Post Chiefs and Crews).

Another lot of about 70 Indians with Marshalling Experience in Yas Marina Circuit Abu Dhabi under the ATC UAE (The FIA Affiliate in UAE) is comimg to Delhi F1 as Volunteers (all paying there own Airfare from UAE to Delhi and back). Hopefully some of us will be Post Chiefs as well.

So in all we are talking about less than 200 Experienced Marshalls in a group of 700.

Hope you get the picture clearer now and will help you in clearing up your prejudices.

Malq, what I have expressed above is from my own knowledge of the developing scenario and in now way to be treated as the opinion/stand of either FMSCI or the Organisers (I am not involved with either).

What I am speaking is purely from the point of the "sporting conduct/organisation" of the event and I am not privy to or involved in any other matters of the India F1.

We the Indian Group of Experienced F1 Marshalls feel really previlaged to be there in Delhi, flying our Tricolour in the Marshalls group. We are giving up our time and money to be there in the Inaugural Event to be part of the proud moment.

From few FIA officials I have learnt that the presence of over 50 experienced National Marshalls in any New F1 would be a 1st in India F1.

I am sure every one of the Indian Marshalls selected through the FMSCI's ongoing programme will feel the same way. Unless I am totally wrong, the Indian Volunteers will be provided with some inputs from FIA Approved trainers in the 2nd phace of the process.

I can understand a little of where you are coming from. But I would say plaese look at this with an open view.

So if all goes well the 2013 F1 will be a fully Indian Affair, as far as the Marshalling is concerned. Its not too far and let us all work towards it collectively.

Why do we do it or why do we have do it ? Beacuse we are all "Petrol Heads" and really not bothered with what happens on the other side of the event !!!

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram

Last edited by r_nairtvm : 1st June 2011 at 15:55.
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Old 6th June 2011, 12:22   #7
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Default Re: FMSCI - is it a National Sports Federation (Indian Government)?

Dear Ram,

Thank you for your very comprehensive response, which I am sure will be of interest to not just me but also to the complete community of petrolheads, many of whom are kept in the dark on what really goes on behind closed doors.

Truly appreciate what you have written and explained.

Now I choose to respond on the one line at the bottom:- Why do we do it or why do we have do it ? Beacuse we are all "Petrol Heads" and really not bothered with what happens on the other side of the event !!!

This is where I think we have a disconnect.

Assumption: All or most of the India origin F1 Marshalls coming to India on their own steam were either born / brought up / educated in India. Or they may be from 2nd/3rd generation diaspora.

Every which way, they most probably have exposure to how political changes in Bahrein have been handled, and probably are also aware of how political changes are taking place in India.

And that's where there is a difference.

In India, as organisers or even as participants, you and other petrol-heads can certainly not disclaim all responsibilities from the way you put it, what happens on the other side of the event.

The last bunch of people who said something like this, during the just concluded Commonwealth Games, don't find themselves as happy campers lately, and that's a simple fact too.

So, my sincere suggestion, in a time and era in India when there is great political and social upheaval, it is extremely important to ensure that what is happening is squeaky clean. Ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse in India. Nor is India like Bahrein, where political strife can be put down brutally, without answers.

In India, people are going to demand answers, for everything. And the Formula None circus is raising too many questions, answers for which shall hae to emerge from FMSCI - as well as those in and around it. Some of whom happen to be people I know reasonably well, too.

It is going to be very difficult, for example, to justify why a sports entity hiding behind tax havens is given free run of the country. Right?

Good luck to all of us in a re-emerging India. I will gladly send you a link to a 54 page document that was sourced by me using RTI pertaining to the correspondence between the PMO and the Ministry of Sports. Likewise, you may wish to search for and read up a Delhi High Court judgement by using the search words "veeresh malik indian olympics association".

I know what I am talking about, and if the numbers pertaining to the Formula None event are declared, all further debate is clouded.

As for the evolving nature of Marshalling on Formula 1, I can not but think back to the days when we used to listen to the same thing on ships - oh, Indians, they can't handle ships. That's bs, and with all due respect, you know it too.

Besides, has anybody bothered to check out the fog predictions for the Greater NOIDA area in December every year?

Humbly submitted,

malQ
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