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Old 28th February 2006, 15:23   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
Exactly. I was hoping one of the "tuners" would say this though. This way you do away with classifications and the accusations of cheating etc.

This also makes it easier to specify safety for each class.

However, then you have the problem of people not knowing how fast their cars are, so what do you do about that!! Chicken and egg situation here!
here but I must stress that NO EATING CHICKEN OR EGGS since there's this bird flu thing going around please .
But getting back to this.. @psycho..Im sure ALL the guys running at a drag meet do their "testing" so they know roughly where their car is going to be... so bracket racing or not.. I think its a better way of doing this.. then you don't have such stringent scrutiny.. though safety still stays..the rest of the "problematic" stuff gets tossed out the window.. agreed@rtech?
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Old 28th February 2006, 15:31   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
This sounds so much like bracket racing, and I do not think India is ready for it yet.
Its not exactly bracket racing. Here the window would be wider. For e.g. one class could be for cars running 15-18 seconds. Another for 13-15; 11-13.

Anyways, these are just thoughts floating around.
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Old 28th February 2006, 16:26   #18
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Well a few points here:

- Most cars will be in the 15-18 sec bracket
- Lesser cars as you move up the bracket
- It will bring the end of company car based racing, platforms like the zen will rule for ever

Guess the ideas need to be approached by a larger audience of tuners & drivers who can get together on this and have more knowledge/experience than me.
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Old 28th February 2006, 16:37   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
Well a few points here:

- Most cars will be in the 15-18 sec bracket
- Lesser cars as you move up the bracket
- It will bring the end of company car based racing, platforms like the zen will rule for ever

Guess the ideas need to be approached by a larger audience of tuners & drivers who can get together on this and have more knowledge/experience than me.
Yes I agree with you .. the higher(or lower) you go on timings the less number of cars will participate.. but at the same time.. this is true for any form of ORGANISED motorsports.
With the new crop of cars coming in..Im sure that at one point or the other the zen will be toppled from its top spot on the mantle.
Tuners out there.. how about inputs from you?
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Old 28th February 2006, 19:03   #20
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Originally Posted by Rtech
Ezen class is not required, but its there as ACI wanted it in.
So who is running the rules, MAI or ACI? Next time Pantaloons sponsors Burnout, do they get to create their own classes?

You guys are talking of dial-ins and penalizing those undercutting dial-ins. Everyone will just dial in at 10 secs. Then no issues if you can't make 10 secs... I mean, look at the 1600 winner so far. Vinod Ratnam clocked 15.11 at Speedrun BLR 04, no idea how much at BBY, and again 16.1 at Burnout BLR. That's 1 second off on the same car, with the same driver and setup.

All testing that occurs is done using stopwatches or cellphone clocks, which aren't too accurate. And 1 second lost or gained on the lights, or proper 402 m measurements, can jack your dial-in badly.

Rtech, why do you always refer to tuners as "tuners"? If you think they don't do their job right, say it. And name them. Don't beat about the bush please.

What was the b-Zen doing in the 1600 class? Next the Dolphin with the Esteem engine is going to do 14 secs or less, and there is no way in hell an Esteem can match that in India.

I'm sorry for sounding a little antagonistic, but it seems that a very twisted view of the sport is emerging from the controlling body, MAI (or is it ACI?). While I applaud certain steps taken this time, I feel that some issues need to be sorted.

Rtech, 2l8, can you please tell us whose interests you support? Are you with the MAI, ACI, FMSCI etc?

EDIT: Also have to agree with a lot of incredulous faces that there's pretty much no way an NA Indian Lancer can pull off 15.338 after a 1.179 RT. That means he took only 14.6 or 14.7 for the 400m? I have my doubts.

Last edited by v1p3r : 28th February 2006 at 19:05.
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Old 28th February 2006, 20:20   #21
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Ok, heres how i see it. To do a 1/4 mile in 15.338 secs, a car would need to hit atleast 140-145 kmph at the 400m mark and do a 0-100 in under 7.5 secs.

Considering that the Lancer was in the pro stock class without any sort of forced induction, 15.338 is out of the question. U don't even have to give it a 2nd thought.

For a 15 sec 1/4 mile, a car would need a power to weight of atleast 150-160bhp/ton. How do you make a 85-87bhp engine produce 160+bhp in a "PRO STOCK" category??????

A stock lancer would struggle to get into the 17s, let alone 15 secs. What is this, a drag event or a fairytale?

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 28th February 2006 at 20:59.
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Old 28th February 2006, 20:39   #22
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Quote:
bro according to a source this car was stock and had the best reaction time that's why he won
Dude, even if the guy had a 0.00 reaction time, theres no way he could have done it in 15.338 secs. Try this....get yourself a stock Lancer 1.5, give yourself a 1.5 sec jumpstart and see if you can do it in 15.338 secs. U wont even be close.

How come nobody opposed to this when it happened? There's a limit to what one can be made to believe and this time, they've crossed it.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 28th February 2006 at 20:43.
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Old 28th February 2006, 21:26   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
Dude, even if the guy had a 0.00 reaction time, theres no way he could have done it in 15.338 secs. Try this....get yourself a stock Lancer 1.5, give yourself a 1.5 sec jumpstart and see if you can do it in 15.338 secs. U wont even be close.

How come nobody opposed to this when it happened? There's a limit to what one can be made to believe and this time, they've crossed it.

Shan2nu
agree wid you but the source was a fellow bhpian i will tell him to clarify and post this himself.To tell you i was in a state of shock when i heard this thing.

Last edited by kooldude : 28th February 2006 at 21:28.
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Old 28th February 2006, 21:30   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
You guys are talking of dial-ins and penalizing those undercutting dial-ins. Everyone will just dial in at 10 secs. Then no issues if you can't make 10 secs... I mean, look at the 1600 winner so far. Vinod Ratnam clocked 15.11 at Speedrun BLR 04, no idea how much at BBY, and again 16.1 at Burnout BLR. That's 1 second off on the same car, with the same driver and setup.
Ok not to give a lecture here.. but a car at sea level will ALWAYS be quicker than a car at any kind of altitude... so thats obvious that the times in B'lore would be a lil slower than the times in Bombay.Correct me if I'm wrong please.

All testing that occurs is done using stopwatches or cellphone clocks, which aren't too accurate. And 1 second lost or gained on the lights, or proper 402 m measurements, can jack your dial-in badly.
There's no question of "HUMAN ERROR" here coz the timing equipment is pretty accurate...I don't know how quick the people who do the times when people are testing so I can't really comment.. though I can tell you this.. if you want to bring in more accuracy.. spend 30 $ and get a BASIC GTECH meter..that should give you a pretty accurate idea of what your cars/bikes are doing.

Rtech, why do you always refer to tuners as "tuners"? If you think they don't do their job right, say it. And name them. Don't beat about the bush please.
Rtech.. I'll leave this one for you to field

What was the b-Zen doing in the 1600 class? Next the Dolphin with the Esteem engine is going to do 14 secs or less, and there is no way in hell an Esteem can match that in India.
Whats wrong with that.. isn't the baleno an INDIAN MADE ENGINE?? Dude.. before mouthing off READ THE FREAKIN REGS!!

I'm sorry for sounding a little antagonistic, but it seems that a very twisted view of the sport is emerging from the controlling body, MAI (or is it ACI?). While I applaud certain steps taken this time, I feel that some issues need to be sorted.
Twisted why?? Answer me this.. why did MOST of the B'lore racers stay away??
SHABBIR/BABAN KHAN and all the other Bangalore guys that came.. I APPLAUD YOU for not being so petty and childish by not coming to an event just because you guys don't agree or were not consulted with the rule changes... WAY TO GO PEOPLE!!
Rtech, 2l8, can you please tell us whose interests you support? Are you with the MAI, ACI, FMSCI etc?
I would'nt like to speak on Rtech's behalf..though I know his thoughts on this matter.. but all I can say for myself is that I want to see the sport progress in a SAFE AND CLEAN manner where there is a level playing field for anyone that wants to be a part of this fun and relatively cheap way of racing.
.
I really appreciate and RESPECT those Bangalore guys that came.. once again I take my hat off to you gentlemen

Last edited by 2L8uLoose : 28th February 2006 at 21:32.
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Old 28th February 2006, 22:50   #25
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Sorry to butt in , but here are my views .. U can call them dumb , anyways here goes ..

1. No engine swaps to be allowed in any category other than the indian open and the unrestricted category .. That way all the guys running the OE engines on the cars will have a fair playing field be it pro stock or the FI categ .. It is but understood that a e-zen will be quicker than a esteem and a b-zen would be quicker than a baleno and so on .. So placing these cars even if in the FI category alongside each other just doesnt sound right ..

2. Secondly if rule 1 is followed then have a separate class for the e-zens if not scrap the rule and run the e-zens in the FI 1100-1400 cc category .. Also like the others pointed out isnt MAI that makes the rules ..

3. Coming to bracket racing or the classification based on timings , we certainly arent ready for it .. 1st let us get the simple rules right .. We seem to be moving in the right direction as of now, just that a few rules need to fine tuned and thats about it ..

2l8 , we too certainly praise the efforts of all those guys who made it to the bombay drag .. Its not that we dont , we bangy boys are also EQUALLY UPSET with the boycott .. I hear the boycott may well continue at bangy too unless these tuners see the previous years rules being restored .. I request the governing bodies not to change the rules no matter what , if these tuners dont wish to take part let them take a hike .. They will come around at some point , unless they want to loose customers and fame that is ..
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Old 1st March 2006, 00:10   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2L8uLoose
Ok not to give a lecture here.. but a car at sea level will ALWAYS be quicker than a car at any kind of altitude... so thats obvious that the times in B'lore would be a lil slower than the times in Bombay.Correct me if I'm wrong please.
Read close, brother. I mentioned both times for Bangalore. I said I don't know his BBY time. Please answer my question as asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2L8uLoose
There's no question of "HUMAN ERROR" here coz the timing equipment is pretty accurate...I don't know how quick the people who do the times when people are testing so I can't really comment.. though I can tell you this.. if you want to bring in more accuracy.. spend 30 $ and get a BASIC GTECH meter..that should give you a pretty accurate idea of what your cars/bikes are doing.
When you mentioned how the guys must be testing, I brought this up. I was referring to the informal pre-event testing, not to the event timing. And yes, I've seen how the basic Gtech meters work. And believe you me, I've yet to see a stock Vtec do the 16.4 that the device claims, on a dragstrip. Besides, I'm sorry, but some of us can't even afford to spend USD 30 + shipping + customs on a device that isn't too accurate anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2L8uLoose
What was the b-Zen doing in the 1600 class? Next the Dolphin with the Esteem engine is going to do 14 secs or less, and there is no way in hell an Esteem can match that in India.
Whats wrong with that.. isn't the baleno an INDIAN MADE ENGINE?? Dude.. before mouthing off READ THE FREAKIN REGS!!
Ah, so then why was there a separate Zen 1400 class? And then why hasn't anyone else taken the same route? On the other hand, why is Rtech saying rules evolve, and hindsight is 20:20? Is this some sort of admission that there was a loophole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2L8uLoose
Ok not to give a lecture here.. but a car at sea level will ALWAYS be quicker than a car at any kind of altitude... so thats obvious that the times in B'lore would be a lil slower than the times in Bombay.Correct me if I'm wrong please.
Read close, brother. I mentioned both times for Bangalore. I said I don't know his BBY time. Please answer my question as asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
So who is running the rules, MAI or ACI? Next time Pantaloons sponsors Burnout, do they get to create their own classes?
Why hasn't this question been answered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2L8uLoose
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
Rtech, 2l8, can you please tell us whose interests you support? Are you with the MAI, ACI, FMSCI etc?
I would'nt like to speak on Rtech's behalf..though I know his thoughts on this matter.. but all I can say for myself is that I want to see the sport progress in a SAFE AND CLEAN manner where there is a level playing field for anyone that wants to be a part of this fun and relatively cheap way of racing.
Again, you have not answered my question. I will repeat it: Are you a part of the MAI, ACI, FMSCI etc?
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Old 1st March 2006, 02:31   #27
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OT:

Back to War,huh??
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Old 1st March 2006, 05:58   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
RTech another doubt here :

1. To determine the class winners do u add up the reaction times (RTs) to the runtimes (timed from start to finish) and then declare the winners or are the winners declared purely on the runtime basis excluding the RT's..
2. What exactly does ET (elapsed time) mean ???

(answer this query please)
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Old 1st March 2006, 10:04   #29
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v1p3r, i will reply in detail later (i haven't read the entire thread after my last post yet), but all I can say for now is to read your post again and understand what you yourself have written. Apply a little logic to what you are saying and you wil get your own answers.

Edit: On reading a bit of this, it seems that there are people here who are itching for a war of words. I'm not going to entertain that. You want a sensible debate, sure, but then I suggest aquainting yourself thoroughly with the topic first and leaving senseless comments out of it.

Last edited by Rtech : 1st March 2006 at 10:11.
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Old 1st March 2006, 10:23   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by


[B
Why hasn't this question been answered?[/b]


Again, you have not answered my question. I will repeat it: Are you a part of the MAI, ACI, FMSCI etc?
You know what"BROTHER" if you cant tell who I represent by now.. I guess you'll never know.. one question to you.. WHO DO YOU REPRESENT.. are you the voice of all the Bangalore boy's and "TUNERS"??
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