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Old 5th April 2007, 13:19   #16
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Also..lifting a wheel is much easier than toppling a car..
Headers , thanks for that rather technical jargon on what is easier , toppling a car or lifting a wheel .. May i quote a real life situation on track that happened at the last unofficial track day ?? A scorpio testing tyres for JK i guess went hard into C2 and rolled over really badly (maybe jay here has a few pics) .. We all were a witness to this situation first hand (and no it did not hit an obstacle).. Like i said on track its a different thing , most times the unexpected happens .. Psycho will tell you of his scary experiences .. Yes , i do know that an innova handles like a gem nowhere close to a scorpio but its not impossible and thats not a chance someone would want to take on a race trial .. Hope you understand .. Mean no offense to anyone , but i guess some are over reacting to this entire scenario ..

And nitrous we arent stopping anyone from hosting a pay and track thing (infact we would love you to organize one), i would appreciate it if you wouldnt keep stressing upon the fact of this mystery race and mystery man .. If it were to be one i wouldnt have posted about it here .. I request you all look at it as a fun few hours watching a few professional's going bonkers on track and not perceive this into some scam where we are depriving a few of getting a chance to get onto track .. Hope i have made myself clear ..

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 5th April 2007 at 13:20.
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Old 5th April 2007, 14:01   #17
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Headers , thanks for that rather technical jargon on what is easier , toppling a car or lifting a wheel .. May i quote a real life situation on track that happened at the last unofficial track day ?? A scorpio testing tyres for JK i guess went hard into C2 and rolled over really badly (maybe jay here has a few pics) ....

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Old 5th April 2007, 14:48   #18
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yeah..but the scorpio must have hit the kerb..which is enough to lift off..

@MCL, please understand that while conering hard, even if you come across the slightest of obstacles..you are bound to lift / disturb the vehicle!

@ Ajmat, thanks for the pic, I THINK i recognise that SCORPIO!!

cheers
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Old 5th April 2007, 14:52   #19
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Also, Ajmat, maybe you could highlight the GREAT spin off we had at the rear of the track, last track day and highlight the point to MCL !!
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Old 5th April 2007, 14:52   #20
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its not necessary that it needs to hit a curb. A sudden jerk on the wheel while into a corner can easily topple a SUV like the scorpio, especially on grippy tarmac.

in this case, he probably understeered off the track, left side got bogged down on the runoff and flipped it. Or i'd guess that was the case. Seems to have held up pretty well though.
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Old 5th April 2007, 15:00   #21
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either way..the vehicle would have needed an obstacle..even a change in surface is good enough!! to topple..else we would have witnessed a beautiful slide and not a topple!
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Old 5th April 2007, 15:08   #22
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no headers. I don't mean a change in surface. let me try and explain: A scorpio is going at a full nick into a right turn. in the middle of the turn, when the inside is light and all the weight has been transfered to the outer left of the vehicle, the driver flicks the wheel further right. that change in direction of the front wheels could cause it to topple. Another example is the elk test done on the A class just when it was release. Or even the toppling Suzuki Jimmy episode (our Maruti Gypsy with a SWB).

the gradual understeer slide would come if he maintains the same steering angle but is simply too fast for that vehicle and that corner.
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Old 5th April 2007, 16:20   #23
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Another thing that can make a car topple is when one of the tyres digs into the tarmac due to excessive load on it. In these cases the sidewall of the tyre can buckle & an cause the vehicle to topple over but this happens in rare cases.
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Old 5th April 2007, 16:35   #24
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Rtech..i get what you mean..but wonder whether this will happen..the momemtum will only keep it going in the same direction and only a change in weights suddenly can lift a 2 ton mass of the ground..i.e if he had counter steered..but thats a very remote possibility..

W.r.t the elk test in the A class..i guess it was done in reverse where the steering wheels were at the back.. it would not have happened if it was done the other way round..

iraghava..i agree if the rim touches the road..again a change in dynamics happen..and the rim does not grip the road like the tyre..hence a distinct possibility of the tipping over..

But again..that is an EXTREME situation..


Vehicles with Leaf springs up front are easier to topple..eg suzuki jimmy as the suspension setup is different than IFS..found in normal vehicles..

I'm pretty sure about that.. :
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Old 5th April 2007, 16:38   #25
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Rt, the Scorpio was doing like 30 kmph just before it toppled. It had atleast 5 people inside, and it toppled because it fishtailed out of control. It was a lot like a tankslapper on a bike. He overcorrected, and went thud.

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Another thing that can make a car topple is when one of the tyres digs into the tarmac due to excessive load on it. In these cases the sidewall of the tyre can buckle & an cause the vehicle to topple over but this happens in rare cases.
This is what I meant with the Qualis. The sidewall doesn't buckle, but the inertia from the body roll tips it over.
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Old 5th April 2007, 17:24   #26
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Default Racing on track with SUVs, Minivans and Tallboys

The Innova has a track to height ratio of 1:1.15 which basically means that for every 1000mm of track, the car stands 1155mm tall.

Heres how they stack up :
Honda City - 960
Camry - 965
Baleno - 966
Octavia - 967
Accent - 982
Astra - 986
Lancer - 989
Conty - 1015
Corolla - 1020
Opel Sail/Corsa - 1023
Palio - 1031
Esteem - 1031
Zen (old) - 1052
Uno - 1061
Forester - 1067
Indigo - 1124
Alto - 1131
Matiz - 1144
Innova - 1155
Indica - 1169
Amby - 1171
Santro - 1216
Wagon R - 1284
Safari (old) - 1296
Scorpio - 1321
Sumo - 1358
Qualis - 1390
Versa - 1482
Omni - 1532

So, if a Santro can make it on track and not topple, i don't see why the Innova should be sidelined. The Qualis, Scorpio, Sumo are way taller for their track.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 5th April 2007 at 17:28.
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Old 5th April 2007, 22:25   #27
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So, if a Santro can make it on track and not topple, i don't see why the Innova should be sidelined. The Qualis, Scorpio, Sumo are way taller for their track.
Hope you guys don't mind one more post on this topic. What I am wondering is whether the torque per unit weight developed is also a factor. If this figure is higher for Innova, meaning it can accelerate harder through turns, doesn't that factor make it more prone to toppling as compared to a Santro?
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Old 5th April 2007, 23:46   #28
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Originally Posted by rks View Post
Hope you guys don't mind one more post on this topic. What I am wondering is whether the torque per unit weight developed is also a factor. If this figure is higher for Innova, meaning it can accelerate harder through turns, doesn't that factor make it more prone to toppling as compared to a Santro?
Power wont matter coz its up to you how much you give to the wheels isnt it??


Can any one tell me what this animation means??? Waking the dead horse by any chance???
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Old 5th April 2007, 23:50   #29
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flogging a dead horse, man, or should i say wolf ?

@rks....dont even think about santro as a racing car.
cheers
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Old 6th April 2007, 00:35   #30
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@rks....dont even think about santro as a racing car.
Agreed. The car has its uses to zip through traffic and can corner hard, but on the race track serious mods will be needed to increase pick-up and speed.
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