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Old 6th April 2007, 01:11   #31
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Originally Posted by rks View Post
Agreed. The car has its uses to zip through traffic and can corner hard, but on the race track serious mods will be needed to increase pick-up and speed.
Erm, I'm thinking chassis and suspension would be your greater issues.
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Old 6th April 2007, 11:51   #32
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Hope you guys don't mind one more post on this topic. What I am wondering is whether the torque per unit weight developed is also a factor. If this figure is higher for Innova, meaning it can accelerate harder through turns, doesn't that factor make it more prone to toppling as compared to a Santro?
Well, the Innova is surely gonna be way quicker on the straights and while exiting the corners (since it's a RWD). But half way through the corner, a vehicles speed is limited by it's traction levels and the suspension setup.

So you maynot see a big diff in the cornering speeds of a stock Santro vs a stock Innova.

Man the more we discuss the Innova, the more i wanna bring it on track.

PS : Mods, can yo'l move all posts starting from post#30 onto a new thread?

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Old 6th April 2007, 12:54   #33
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Erm, I'm thinking chassis and suspension would be your greater issues.
You may be right. I don't know much about racing. I thought that the Santro's stiff rear suspension should already suit fast cornering. But maybe not enough to meet racing standards.

Last edited by rks : 6th April 2007 at 12:56.
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Old 6th April 2007, 13:35   #34
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Originally Posted by rks
can corner hard, but on the race track serious mods will be needed to increase pick-up and speed.
Dont take it hard,man.
But U have no clue what a racetrack requires and neither about a santro.
Try test-driving a lot of cars and u'll come to know what u've been driving all along.
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Old 6th April 2007, 14:46   #35
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Dont take it hard,man.
But U have no clue what a racetrack requires and neither about a santro.
Try test-driving a lot of cars and u'll come to know what u've been driving all along.
OK if you say so. I do know about the Santro's limits which I have pushed in the Mumbai-Pune route (in particular, the Lonawala ghat section in the Expressway). To be specific, my Santro can take the right-angle corner at the exit of the Expressway in Dehu road (towards Pune) at 80-90 kmph, without the S322 tubeless tyres protesting at all; so I should be able to take that corner at 100+ if I make the tyres scream. Not to mention what I could do if I shift to better tyres. The 5" alloys are *way* better than the 4" steel wheels in this regard. I usually approach this exit at 120 kmph and do not brake at all and as the car corners silently, I see the speedo dropping to 80-90 kmph.

Most of the corners in the Lonawala ghat section can be taken at very high speeds, ranging from 80-120 kmph, without making the S322 tubeless tyres scream. That looks *quite* fast to me, especially considering that I can push the car harder and shift to better tyres for even better results. To be fair, I haven't really seen anybody else trying to push their cars hard in this section and I have very rarely been overtaken.

That said, fast cornering is fun, but I have slowed down a great deal because I do not want to bring down the tyre and suspension life.
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Old 6th April 2007, 16:14   #36
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The only advantage i see SUV's having on track is straight lining all the corners .. That way you dont have to corner at all thus preventing all the risks .. I certainly do remember a porsche cayenne do that on a couple of corners at the second track day trying to beat a cls 350 .. Maybe sumit could try this .. Shan watch out for sumit if he indeed decides to take this task ..

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 6th April 2007 at 16:18.
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Old 6th April 2007, 16:54   #37
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what thread has all this talk evolved from?? whose sumite, mystery race, mystery man????????????

manson.
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Old 6th April 2007, 17:16   #38
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Originally Posted by manson View Post
what thread has all this talk evolved from?? whose sumite, mystery race, mystery man???????????? manson.
sssshhh... thats the mystery, dude... it cant be revealed. But sumit is Godfather, there's no mystery about that.
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Old 6th April 2007, 17:19   #39
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Originally Posted by rks View Post
I have pushed in the Mumbai-Pune route (in particular, the Lonawala ghat section in the Expressway).
It is no race track either?

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To be specific, my Santro can take the right-angle corner at the exit of the Expressway in Dehu road (towards Pune) at 80-90 kmph, without the S322 tubeless tyres protesting at all; so I should be able to take that corner at 100+ if I make the tyres scream.
I dont think tyres require to scream if your car is about to topple. What you are trying to do is probably a very risky manoeuvre. Please care for your life and approach the turn at not more than 60-70 kmph. The expressway authorities have put up a tyre wall to avoid people crashing to death on that turn. Can you keep up to one single lane while entering and exiting the corner?

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Not to mention what I could do if I shift to better tyres. The 5" alloys are *way* better than the 4" steel wheels in this regard. I usually approach this exit at 120 kmph and do not brake at all and as the car corners silently, I see the speedo dropping to 80-90 kmph.
Tyres and wheels are not the sole contributors to handling of a car, there are a lot of other factors which includes chassis, suspension.

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Most of the corners in the Lonawala ghat section can be taken at very high speeds, ranging from 80-120 kmph, without making the S322 tubeless tyres scream. That looks *quite* fast to me, especially considering that I can push the car harder and shift to better tyres for even better results. To be fair, I haven't really seen anybody else trying to push their cars hard in this section and I have very rarely been overtaken.
No they cannot be. If you wish to be safe stick to some sane speeds. If you feel 80 - 120 kmph is a good speed to take U-bends on the ghat section then try entering at 80 kmph on the first hair pin bend going towards Bombay without switching lanes or dropping speeds . Have you encountered body roll anytime?

Sorry for going way way off-topic here!

Last edited by moralfibre : 6th April 2007 at 17:22.
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Old 6th April 2007, 17:48   #40
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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
I dont think tyres require to scream if your car is about to topple. What you are trying to do is probably a very risky manoeuvre. Please care for your life and approach the turn at not more than 60-70 kmph. The expressway authorities have put up a tyre wall to avoid people crashing to death on that turn. Can you keep up to one single lane while entering and exiting the corner?
The exit is a wide single lane. I take it from the right and the car ends up on the left -- but with plenty of margins from the barrier. Yeah, you are right, I have mellowed down these days and generally approach that corner slowly; good for suspension life and safety too, especially with the heavy traffic on the Expressway these days (has increased enormously even in the last two years).
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Tyres and wheels are not the sole contributors to handling of a car, there are a lot of other factors which includes chassis, suspension.
Of course. Looks like the suspension of my car is in good condition, but I am not pushing it now because I have already done 46500 kms and don't want to do any suspension overhaul till 75000 kms. Besides my alloys have a lower offset as compared to stock by about 20 mm and that is also reportedly bad for suspension and wheel bearings.
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No they cannot be. If you wish to be safe stick to some sane speeds. If you feel 80 - 120 kmph is a good speed to take U-bends on the ghat section then try entering at 80 kmph on the first hair pin bend going towards Bombay without switching lanes or dropping speeds . Have you encountered body roll anytime?
Actually after switching to 5" alloys, I feel that the body roll has increased slightly --earlier roll was negligible -- but the car takes corners much faster, without any protest from the tyres (as expected with same stock size tyres and wider wheels). But I do not stick to one lane while taking corners, in order to reduce the strain on the suspension. The lower offset of the alloys causes the wheels to protrude from the wheel well. The body roll may have increased because the steering may be responding much more sensitively with the alloys --don't know what effect the decreased offset is contributing to this.

But you have a misunderstanding regarding the Lonawala ghat section. There are no hairpin bends there (nobody can take *those* at 80+ kmph, for sure). There are a couple of dangerous S-bends which you *can* do at 80 in my Santro if you push really hard, but I do those at about 60-70 usually. Others are all just curves on the road, some of them sharp and winding.

The Santro's relatively stiff rear suspension makes fast cornering possible. Somehow I have never felt that the Santro is about to topple, especially after I switched to tubeless and alloys.

Last edited by rks : 6th April 2007 at 17:52.
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Old 6th April 2007, 18:08   #41
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weight of the car with the suspension and tyre design can be a great concern in case of innova, good idea but please be careful

my experience was limited to chauffer driver on very good NH and a sweeping turn at 80 was very scary and one could feel the car loosing it, innova is a good car but seriously is it designed for track?? or is it really worth the experiment?
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Old 6th April 2007, 20:12   #42
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didnt Sabine Schmitz take a Ford Transit van around the Nurburgring (quite fast). I think its the driver skill that matters more than the vehicle.
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Old 6th April 2007, 20:34   #43
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I think its the driver skill that matters more than the vehicle.
On that bombshell i am still wondering why we have track legit cars all around the world .. A properly setup car is anyday important .. Its a track we are talking about where even the best of drivers commit mistakes .. Not a jay walk in the park ..

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 6th April 2007 at 20:53.
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Old 6th April 2007, 21:39   #44
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reading this tread the honda element d car comes to my mind but thats a good car with amazing suspension but don't know weather cars like scorpio or bolero could copy this
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Old 6th April 2007, 22:16   #45
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@rks, i sincerely hope that you are just boasting & not really trying to pull stunts on a tall'boy'. Anyway s322 are not performance tyres for you to try stunts like that. Probably you may not have noticed it, but some folks might have pulled up seeing a santro going like that, i know i will No offence meant.
cheers
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