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View Poll Results: Which day
1st week Aug 14 41.18%
2nd week Aug 9 26.47%
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Old 22nd August 2007, 23:01   #286
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I don't quite agree with the assessment you have made, but I will keep my mouth shut. Hope I am proved wrong.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 00:00   #287
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Originally Posted by sAP View Post
I don't quite agree with the assessment you have made, but I will keep my mouth shut. Hope I am proved wrong.
In fact there was a palio/adventure (not sure which) that was just gently cruising around the park with the ICE played out real loud.
AFAIK, the paticipants were enjoying themselves in a leisurely manner with cars excghanging drivers & drivers exchanging cars, there was no reason to feel the worst.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 02:49   #288
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Sorry esteem lover, I was talking to the guys on track.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 07:55   #289
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Sorry esteem lover, I was talking to the guys on track.
Sap, that would be really rude to say so. John was there every minute we spent on track watching us. And to be honest, people who are standing on the outside are at a better place to judge what is going on. Most times even the drivers don't realize the mistakes that they are making but standing on the outside I could make out the mistakes the drivers were making. For eg, I never realized how much body roll my car had, but after I saw the pics from John I realized. I could give you a countless number of such instances.

Like John has already mentioned these kind of track days are as dangerous as driving on our highways. If one is stupid enough to drive rash, then no one can help them. Not only on track, but even on the highway. So at the end of the day you are the only person responsible for your own deeds. And having medics on track doesn't give you the right to drive rash or to take it for granted that your life WILL be saved. If you think that, you are nothing but the stupidest person alive. Irrespective of whether there are medics or not, you are COMPELLED to drive RESPONSIBLY.

I have already mentioned this before, but I shall do so once again. Kindly stop drawing conclusions sitting at the sidelines. Come track side, watch the scene and then feel free to comment anything.

That said, I really don't mind organizing the medics if the members are willing to pay 2k extra per car. It will include an ambulance + 1 doctor & nurse on board + 10-15 marshalls. This will work out if there are about 15 cars. The lesser the cars, more will be the charges. Its as simple as that.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 23rd August 2007 at 07:58.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 09:15   #290
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Like John has already mentioned these kind of track days are as dangerous as driving on our highways. If one is stupid enough to drive rash, then no one can help them. ..............................If you think that, you are nothing but the stupidest person alive. Irrespective of whether there are medics or not, you are COMPELLED to drive RESPONSIBLY.
.
During our track days, we have seen the following accidents (not including bikes)

1: One car rolled (this was doing tyre testing) - why - it was a scorpio taking one of the toughest bends at "car" like speeds

2: One swift hit a tyre wall on C8 - why, hewas going too fast in, braked, wheels locked and went sliding straight in.

3: One kid tried dragging in the pits and damaged a car into a wall

We can bear the risk as

1: We enforce strict rules of behaviour.

2: Any newbie is guided around and clearly made clear he is not a born Hamilton

3: We are aware of our car limits and when we see someone pushing it, we tell them in a friendly manner

4: We keep our keys tightly and let only those whom we trust into our cars

One more thing

We would love to have medics stationed but we can never predict how many cars show up

Last edited by ajmat : 23rd August 2007 at 09:18.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 11:08   #291
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Well - one of the things of going on the track is responsibility. The more cars you have the greater possibility of unknown people and unknown egos.
But - since the trackdays have mainly t-bhpians- there is a sense of responsibility that we can hope to impart. no crazy stunts - no road rage. Also, being a small group - the fewer cars makes the distances larger and more fun in driving. When there are a lot of cars - its like driving in a crowded street - why come to the track then?
Yes- there is a safety factor we MUST look at all times - but this is a collective excercise - and everyone must collectively shoulder responsibility. We can max suggest seat belts, taping lights and no loose stuff - but at the end of it - its upto the driver to do it or not. last time, there were people enjoying themselves and there is no harm in that.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 14:28   #292
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I hope you guys are right. I have nothing more to say on this.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 15:20   #293
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Arrow Sound judgement vs sounding off

Well, I do have one last thing to say though.

Mcl1885, what you are saying doesn't make much sense to me.

"...people who are standing on the outside are at a better place to judge what is going on. "

This is only true for someone who is experienced on track and can co-relate with that. When I was training on track with Ayub Khan in 2006, he analyzed each gear shift, braking point and turn in. This was done once in the car riding beside me and couple of times from the pits while I was on track.

... these kind of track days are as dangerous as driving on our highways. If one is stupid enough to drive rash, then no one can help them. Not only on track, but even on the highway.

Highways mitigate risk by including what is possible on a highway. Now they have even included a standby ambulance on the Tambaram-Maduravoyal bypass, which has been identified as a high risk zone in Chennai. Tracks must mitigate risk even to a higher extent than that because (i) more precautions are viable in a smaller radius closed location and (ii) the risk is much higher.

And having medics on track doesn't give you the right to drive rash or to take it for granted that your life WILL be saved.

Nobody takes for granted that a life will be saved if there is an ambulance or medic on track. Do you have any clue what you are talking about? It reduces the risk by a significant extent in a life-and-death situation. If the medic is not used, you can thank God for it. Not attribute it to the purposeful careful driving.

I have already mentioned this before, but I shall do so once again. Kindly stop drawing conclusions sitting at the sidelines. Come track side, watch the scene and then feel free to comment anything.

After being on track several times myself, I have drawn conclusions based on my experience and those of others. Because you have been on a few un-official ones, it doesn't really mean anything significantly more, does it?

"... That said, I really don't mind organizing the medics if the members are willing to pay 2k extra per car. It will include an ambulance + 1 doctor & nurse on board + 10-15 marshalls. "


End of the day, you'd want to feel good that you have done everything possible to keep the entire thing from changing into a non-fun event. There are cheaper alternatives which I PM-ed you about. You can take them or leave them.

Being a young organizer, you must be open to advice from those with insight or experience. Maybe you should try talking to Farhan or someone else who has done this kind of thing before. If you don't want to take suggestions, there are better ways of saying no.

I can respect ajmat's view and those of some others here as well. The difference is that they are weighing the options, unlike you, not just sounding off. I am almost convinced that I am wasting my time telling you, but I am trying once again hoping that someone will take the initiative sooner or later.

sAP
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Old 23rd August 2007, 15:32   #294
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Sap, I have made my opinion very clear about this topic. If people are willing to pay I WILL arrange for the medics.

Also, since you are talking about experience/inexperience on the organizing part I am told there are many pros & regulars in Chennai who have similar events as well regularly. Maybe you should ask Farhan to give you info on it. We are just following what they do too, with slightly more precautions.

Also, we did have a medical kit at hand at the previous event. In case of a life threatening injury carrying the injured in a CAR might be as fatal as well. There is a reason why you have ambulances with bed and the other medical kits. Anything more I or you say will only sound like a pointless banter trying to prove each other wrong. So I will refrain from it.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 18:01   #295
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At the end of the day, there were no accidents & everyone had fun. Is that a problem ? I look at life in a positive way & when you can mix responsibility with it, there is nothing much you need to worry about. I think this unnecessary nitpicking is totally that, unnecessary.

That is not to say that no one cares for safety, just that safety was taken care of.
I think these more experienced guys should come out more often or at least could have come to this thread to give their suggestions when this event was being planned instead of commenting 2 weeks after the event was conducted. That would have been much appreciated.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 21:13   #296
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OK I have a suggestion here in general... If there's a newbie on track for the first time. It should be made COMPULSORY that he must be accompanied by a senior for atleast 3-5 laps including the warm up. He can also be taught simple rules like not braking into corners or taking the right lines etc. There should also be designated points where a slower car must make way for a faster car and the faster car MUST NOT squeeze its way past unless it is at these pre-designated points. The slower car must get off the racing line and let the faster car through. A tap of the horn might warn the slower car in this case, or a flash of high beam.

We had a situation where we got overtaken on the warm up lap and we were like "What the $#^#????". If I hadn't checked my mirrors I could have very well made contact with the guy.

We learnt the hard way on the track, pushing our car to the limit and spinning it 3 times. Actually it was on nitrouss' advice that I started braking early and that made a huge difference in car control and the lap times not to mention safety.

Lastly, newbies must be introduced and their cars identified so that guys on track with them can be a little extra careful...

This may be debateable but I think that most incidents are likely to occur because of newbies rather than road rage or aggression...

I popped my track cherry with this event so thats why I'm sharing what I felt as a newbie..
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Old 23rd August 2007, 21:18   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover
It is your choice if you choose to drive safe or to drive rash. Nobody chose the latter. Yeah, I do not have any experience in driving on a track, but i am smart enough to understand the risks involved. I was there watching & i saw that no one was racing against each other & everyone enjoyed it to the full.
100% true.

I mean, I was on track and I do not remember anyone racing anyone else. And whenever I saw someone in the RVM, I would just give way without thinking whether its an M800 or SX4 or Palio or whatever - and it was not because I don't have an ego OR because I valued my life more.

It was just because I was determined that when I get off the track, the only damage to my baby should be a little shaven tread on the tyres (that itself hurt like hell).

A track is a dangerous place to nurse egos. Come onto the road and then we are talking - an M800 trying to overtake me ? OK, bro, you are taking on the wrong guy there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
Kindly stop drawing conclusions sitting at the sidelines. Come track side, watch the scene and then feel free to comment anything.
Hmm, while I agree with most of what you said, this is not one of them. sAP is pretty experienced on the track and is not talking from the sidelines. Anyway, both sides have a valid point. Let's be constructive instead of getting personal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madan80
But - since the trackdays have mainly t-bhpians- there is a sense of responsibility that we can hope to impart. no crazy stunts - no road rage.
And the fact that if you do something stupid, its going to be put on the net before you even say 'oops, I messed up' and read by some 13000 members and many more visitors. I, for one, would not want that.

Last edited by ported_head : 23rd August 2007 at 23:23. Reason: Trying to keep the board clean.
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