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Old 20th August 2007, 19:13   #46
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Besides, I do not think it should be that difficult too. Since the Thai Vtec puts out what 132 bhp (cant recollect the exact fig)? A change in the ECU, intake manifold, headers, a slightly wilder cam can get you there? Then add a good port/polish, an aftermarket race cam, bump up the CR a bit and you could be hitting close to the target. Though, it would cost one an arm and maybe a neck too for all this. Jitu, would it possible then? Lets say if one wants to have an all out NA build, what could we realistically expect? Street driveability not being such a paramount issue.
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Jitu, and flipsyde, I stand by my words. If you give me a reasonable budget, under that of a turbo job, I could get an Indian Vtec to cross 150 hp NA. I'm not going to go around giving things out, or I know a couple of tuners who would be more than happy to beat the crap out of me, but trust me when I say it can be done, and I've seen it being done.
My point is made! It works out cheaper my way doesn't it?
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Old 20th August 2007, 19:21   #47
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Originally Posted by vis-racing View Post
Yes fiery, any car with good power developed in it can easily replace the Honda and the esteem. The 800 is a really good choice for modding given it races in its category, to drag the 800 against The esteem or the Honda u have to race the car in Indian open. And in this class the other cars will be well[COLOR=black]Prepared for the run. And even the best prepared 800 will not stand a chance. That is why a bigger car is preferred. I think the class thing is all bull**** when it comes to the track. If u are looking to do up an 800 and u feel Good doing it up. Then go for it. Again racing is something u do to feel complete within urself.
It really doesnít matter even if ur friend is driving a skyline, if ur the best in ur category.
There are a lot well done up 800ís who are really good in their Category.
We have RAC, Harry (800 with NOS), and a few others who race or used to race 800ís As far as 800 goes u can very well install a 1liter engine and total supe it up.
The only thing is u cannot install any thing bigger in it as the chassis would not take the beating.
So u can have a fast Street car, But not an Indian open winning car.
Thanks man! Exactly what I was thinking.
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Old 24th August 2007, 13:56   #48
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I have queries Akshay, so dont get me wrong, seeing is believing.

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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
People have been using flow benches and metering airflow in BLR for decades.
Can you post the pics for same?

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Jitu, I'm not going to argue this here. When we meet up next, maybe I can show you a couple of Hondas that produce power over 8000 rpm without spending the earth.
Bro Its not question of arguing. You will not come to know like this, you need to put it on dyno & you will come to know what i am trying to say. you cannot go against laws of physics. Unless you play with the geometry of engine, Rod to stroke ratio & rod length which plays a vital role how torque is carried to redline. Honda D15 has close to ~1.4 R/S ratio which is good for low to mid end torque & they start loosing torque as revs are increased. A Higher R/S ratio is required to carry your torque to higher power band. SO whoever or which ever person is telling you is telling you all crap.

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FYI, all the parts you mentioned, injectors, manifold, exhaust, pistons, conrods, cams, are available here.
True, somebody must have imported already.
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Old 24th August 2007, 21:36   #49
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Can you post the pics for same?
No Jitu, I cannot because I do not have them. But all the old-timers on the forum from BLR will also tell you that there are tuners with flowbenches here, which are used. There are also tuners without flowbenches.

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Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Bro Its not question of arguing. You will not come to know like this, you need to put it on dyno & you will come to know what i am trying to say. you cannot go against laws of physics. Unless you play with the geometry of engine, Rod to stroke ratio & rod length which plays a vital role how torque is carried to redline. Honda D15 has close to ~1.4 R/S ratio which is good for low to mid end torque & they start loosing torque as revs are increased. A Higher R/S ratio is required to carry your torque to higher power band. SO whoever or which ever person is telling you is telling you all crap.
I know you cannot go against the laws of physics (try teaching that to a few members here), but I reiterate, there are Honda 1.5s making power past 8000 rpm. I have myself driven them, so I'm not quoting someone else's crap.

See, 2 years ago the fastest 1650 class car, forced induction, was doing 15.1. Today that time is being matched by NA 1650 class cars. No one thinks it possible until they are shown. Anyway, it's time you made a trip to BLR with your beast!
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Old 24th August 2007, 22:46   #50
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
(try teaching that to a few members here),
I am not here to teach, so you watch before you talk to me like that.

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but I reiterate, there are Honda 1.5s making power past 8000 rpm. I have myself driven them, so I'm not quoting someone else's crap.
How did you measure that?
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Old 24th August 2007, 23:16   #51
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Jitu, I think the R/S ratio for the JDM D15B vtec is around 1.62. Is the ideal around 1.75? What is the R/S for B16A?
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Old 24th August 2007, 23:25   #52
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Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
for a D series engine you can up the rev limit by 8000-8200 rpm (after upgrading valve train components) anything above that, i can gaurantee you it will not make any power.the torque curve will start falling past 8k rpm due to the engine geometry.
right ..if it was a JUN or spoon built engine I would believe its making power..
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Old 24th August 2007, 23:56   #53
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Jitu, I think the R/S ratio for the JDM D15B vtec is around 1.62. Is the ideal around 1.75? What is the R/S for B16A?
Yes ideal is 1.75 & thats the ratio for B16A thats the reason they carry torque to the redline & above.
To determine rod/stroke ratio simply divide rod length (distance between centre of big & small end of rod by stroke of motor. could be 1.62 but thats still low considering they have ~7200 rev limit.
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Old 25th August 2007, 01:12   #54
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COMPLETELY OT: was tailing a rally esteem today, and trust me either that car had a very bad exhaust or the car struggles to keep up in front of a swift d (4 adults loaded) on an indian highway within 130 kmph

so much for power tuning, i think most tuners are playing with power band (where its placed wrt rpm) compared to actual increase in power out put. Just a guess from my side.



jaggu was this during the k-1000 friday or saturday .......did you overtake him....common man you cant compare a road car to a rally car and especially a diesel, but a rally car!!! is a different experience and even more fun when ur driving it on the stages....the swift d is a class apart...and note that there are two classes in esteem 1400 mpfi and RSC carb which is quite slower than the 1400 esteems
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Old 25th August 2007, 01:20   #55
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It not the revability aditya..its the hassle..If the same track day were in Europe..i'm sure a Palio can beat the hell out of an Baleno!.. or Honda City..
@headers - what made you come to such a conclusion??
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Old 25th August 2007, 01:40   #56
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@headers - what made you come to such a conclusion??
I think what he meant was that in Europe it will be easier to find performance mods for the Italian rig (which may include weight reduction kits as well). Which is most likely the case. Think about the different tuners that are there in Europe and what they do to cars like Beemers and Mercs. Performance modding in Europe gets into a whole next level.
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Old 25th August 2007, 01:44   #57
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I think what he meant was that in Europe it will be easier to find performance mods for the Italian rig (which may include weight reduction kits as well). Which is most likely the case. Think about the different tuners that are there in Europe and what they do to cars like Beemers and Mercs. Performance modding in Europe gets into a whole next level.
But IMO what can be done to Palio with a 1.6 engine can be done to an OHC or a Baleno, then how can one beat the hell out of the other? or is it that the Palio engine can withstand more mod than possible in an OHC/Baleno engine?
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Old 25th August 2007, 02:17   #58
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But IMO what can be done to Palio with a 1.6 engine can be done to an OHC or a Baleno, then how can one beat the hell out of the other? or is it that the Palio engine can withstand more mod than possible in an OHC/Baleno engine?
Oh dont worry, they take it to a whole new level. Not only Palios but think about what firms like cosworth does to common engines. Infact they do so much that those engines have nothing in common with the stock engine apart from maybe the block. On top of that,they have the carbon fibrewalas who do everything from Bonnets/Hatches to even door and skin panels. Not to mention what stuff the suspensions get. The biggest thing is that these cars are given strong monocoques to withstand such abuse on a longer basis.

But yes there are firms like Mugen that offer some serious challenge.
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Old 25th August 2007, 02:34   #59
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Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
I am not here to teach, so you watch before you talk to me like that.
Kya Jitu, main tera naam liya kya? Even if I agree with you, you are taking my trip!

How did I measure it? That dyno behind me, butt-waala. Seriously though, the peak power may remain around 7000 rpm, but it produces a decent amount of power past 8k. How do I know? Because I can recognize a flat spot when I feel one.
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Old 25th August 2007, 02:41   #60
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I think what he meant was that in Europe it will be easier to find performance mods for the Italian rig (which may include weight reduction kits as well). Which is most likely the case.
Well, I don't know who tunes Palios in Europe, but maybe that's because I'm not a big Fiat fan. I do know that in all of Europe, the Palio was only marketed in Turkey, because it's a third-world car. Yes, that's what Fiat thinks we in India deserve.

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Oh dont worry, they take it to a whole new level. Not only Palios but think about what firms like cosworth does to common engines. Infact they do so much that those engines have nothing in common with the stock engine apart from maybe the block. On top of that,they have the carbon fibrewalas who do everything from Bonnets/Hatches to even door and skin panels. Not to mention what stuff the suspensions get. The biggest thing is that these cars are given strong monocoques to withstand such abuse on a longer basis.

But yes there are firms like Mugen that offer some serious challenge.
Maybe you've never heard of Trust, Top Secret, JUN, Spoon, Nismo, HKS and all the other little folks in the land of the rising sun, who do a bang-up job of making their cars go faster.
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