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Old 13th March 2008, 12:05   #31
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Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
Is this discussion (postmortem) going to help any one or change anything?
Well, it could be part of the evolution of "speed"run.
There is some good feedback on the speedrun threads at Team-BHP. If the right people see them it might help a little (with identifying and prioritizing the problems, if not finding appropriate solutions/improvements for next time?)?

Dont you think so?

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 13th March 2008 at 12:08.
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Old 13th March 2008, 12:06   #32
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Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
Is this discussion (postmortem) going to help any one or change anything?
Its gonna help in a way because it will discourage any future/new participant or spectator from spending a lot of money and then getting insulted and baked in the sun for all the trouble they took. They will know what to expect next year.

Of course if all this is still acceptable to them, they can still go ahead and participate/watch the event.
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Old 13th March 2008, 12:20   #33
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Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
Sorry but I couldn’t resist myself from barging into this discussion. However would be glad if some 1 answers my question:
Is this discussion (postmortem) going to help any one or change anything?
Maybe the next speedrun ..
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Old 13th March 2008, 12:20   #34
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Originally Posted by viper View Post
Agreed Not you or anybody does. I am not here to talk on matters that are over if you are then do so by all means. If anyone has any positive concrete suggestions and are willing to shoot of emails/letters to the organizers on how to improve the same for next year then I am game to a discussion on that only.

Viper
Well if we don't talk what ever has happened, how are we gonna rectify it dear? the positive/concrete suggestions will come once we know what were the drawbacks.
the thing is there is no competition to ACI to organize such events, the day its there the things will improve automatically.
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Old 13th March 2008, 12:33   #35
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I think since a bunch of us come from different backgrounds, for Example. Automotive, media, etc etc, WE TEAM_BHP can probably make a plan and the whole project with everybodys suggestions , opnions, advice, and of course Debates, take it to any other Company like BBC TopGear.

The reason i mentioned Topgear is becasue of times group- though it could be their 1st event for automobiles, they also have an in-house event company i think its called 360 Degrees. (correct me if i am wrong).

I know this could be a long process, and Times could just take the whole credit but then possibility is having a better event, and better management. though not 100% perfect but we planning and taking the project to them probably for their professional touch. This could bring in a Competitor for Autocar which will indirectly Up their next event managerment.Then we can have two events on the same platform and both will try their level best to give the best for participants as well as spectators.What say guys??

Just a suggestion guys. dont hold my neck for this.

Last edited by SohailPistawala : 13th March 2008 at 12:36.
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Old 13th March 2008, 12:49   #36
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Interesting to see that a post morterm has come up but I have one serious question to ask:

We are all ready to stand up and complain and then do nothing about it (i.e let them run the show all over again) (I know we will all write letters etc. but thats how it is.) I dont say that they are not capable but I would say that ACI is only responsible but I would say the we are all responsible for the sorry state of affairs as things stand today.

Why one may ask :
1) Lack of Infrastructure leads us to let more powerful people letting the sport head to where it is as they end up being the only ones who can organise events:
Solution: We need dedicated Infra like drag strips and tracks across the country

2) Who is responsible for the Infra?
Solution: I think the Govt with its agencies need to dedicate the same like the do so for the atheletes

3) Who can push it the motor sports authority, why to get the racing off the street and as a sport.

We talk of advertising:

1) Why dont the companies sponsor more of the participant projects? Glad that they started approaching (Hats off to them) this year else it was got contacts got sponsor else got a lot of money dont need sponsor.

2) Why should participant cars run the stickers? so that the organisers get the rewards? Shouldnt the participant also get a piece of the pie.

We talk of the rules:

1) They are changed 15 days before an event and again a couple of times
Shouldnt the SR stand locked at least for a season so that the cars can be prepared accordingly.

2) Shouldnt the SR be published at least 6 months before the next season so that each participant knows what to build?

3) Why Rules when there is 1 event a year, why an event at all? We should be ashamed to call ourselves the voice of the sport.

National level event:

Where is the event calendar and if there is one then why is not adhered to?

Have they ever thought about people who come out of town to participate? Their needs / costs etc.

Cmon let us all not kid ourselves that this thread is going to get us anywhere till we all get up and do something about this. We all know what is best for the sport so let us prove it by something as simple as:

"Let us organise a national level event series"

Else let us just sit down like they say "Chudiyaan pahan ke".

Last edited by Psycho : 13th March 2008 at 12:51.
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Old 13th March 2008, 13:14   #37
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Oh My Godd, cant believe some 8 stickers have the capability of making 80 people waste 8000 odd mins causing 80,000 worth global loss considering productivity time loss/ electricity cost/ global warming due to body heat emmission caused by rising blood pressures etc LOLzzz Cmon guys isnt it kinda like an absolute waste of the precious time that we are blessed with???? Dont you think life is more than some stupid sticker paranoia???!!!!

Psycho, well summed up post, I give myself to this cause, while others are busy emitting unnecessary gas lets meet and discuss how we can mobilize events such as these privately, Im sure you know who Im gonna talk about next...
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Old 13th March 2008, 13:36   #38
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just shooting off an idea but, would it be possible for someone with the right contacts to get the building of a permanent drag strip done on one of the million empty roads around kharghar new bombay area ?
Wouldnt that just be a permanent solution.

And akshay , if possible can you put up the bike results also.

thanks,
tavish.
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Old 13th March 2008, 14:37   #39
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Default My Point of view

I've read all the discussion here and I have a valid point of view. Well-backed-up as the heated Gentleman would like it.

My company is one of the 5 sponsors who paid a lot of money and all the cars carried those stickers.

The primary sponsor of the event was BPCL. Their logos were present on all the images, releases and even car numbers. You had no choice.
There were 4 secondary sponsors. JBL, Amaron, Zod, & JK Tyre.
Apart from this, there were a few teams. These teams carried their own colours and logos, apart from the ACI specified sponsor logos. The most predominant of those was Team Zapp, who carried oversized logos on their cars and even wore Team tee shirts.

Now - let us get to my point of view.

Motorsports lives on sponsorships and drivers proudly display the brands that pay for the event. Michael Schumacher never felt stupid wearing Tic-Tac (a brand of mouth freshener) on his chest and Tommy Hilfiger on his backside.
Damon hill thought it was cool to have parmalat (a brand of Milk) on his helmet. Nobody asked them nicely. It was a team directive. The team that pays for the opportunity to drive. Remember not ever F1 driver gets paid. Many pay. Yet, people who pay to drive still carry the sponsor logos in the same exact way. They are not asked nicely, it is part of the rules.
Not only is it part of the rules, but in MY (obviously mistaken) impression, drivers think it's COOL to have sponsor stickers.

People buying Movistar, Repsol and other race replica motorcycles don't pay less for carrying those logos, do they? I have a Jordan team shirt that I wear with pride and at the back I am advertising for Benson and Hedges Cigarettes and in the front I am advertising for Brother Fax machines and the German post office. I think it's supercool. Anyways, BACK to my point of view.

The same situation does not apply to individual participants like some of the enthusiasts on Team-BHP. While some Team-BHPians were privileged to be part of a larger team (and hence wore their logos) the other were pretty much on their own.

The FIA does not need money, or sponsorships. And yet, there are companies that offer HUGE money to sponsor a race. Tell-tale signs are the large HSBC and other logos visible throughout the race.
If I had the money I would pay that. It is my job to get my logo seen by as many people as possible. That's advertising.
Those logos are seen on Television by the world.

Nobody sees the logos at the SR. A few boards put up on the participation areas and barricades will never justify to my company the NEED to spend so much money on a drag event.

How much does it cost to run a Speedrun? Are all of you imagining that ACI has walked away from this event with bulging pockets? Do you truly believe that the amounts you paid as earnest money is what has paid CIDCO for the use of the track? Not by a long shot. ALL that participation money would have barely paid for the security guards at the venue.

You had Government approval, Police presence, fire brigades, ambulances and I am not even scratching the surface.

I have been reading stories about what an amazing Speedrun some Team-BHPians could organise. Try walking into a Government office and telling them you want to drag cars and bikes on legal roads. You will not even manage at the Juhu Flying Club easily (and this is not a public, legal road, it is private property). I am not discouraging you, but making you understand that these are things that you do not focus on as a participant. (You guys are so focussed on losing half a second from your quarter mile!)

No my dear gentlemen, this event needed a lot more money than the participation fees paid by all of you.

Leave us not discuss the mismanagement, or the fact that many of you got the raw end of the stick or were left to rot in the sun and more. I am NOT discussing mismanagement. I am as aggrieved about it as you are. BUT even mismanaged events need money.

My company paid that money. It was the first time we ever put advertising budget into motorsport. V1P3r once asked me (3 years ago) if I would spend ad budget on motosport. I laughed him out of the bar. I did it anyways. Not for anything else but to promote motorsport. In return, the only justification I can offer my company (the money does not come from my pocket) is an event where there were as many visible JBL logos as possible.

In an effort to make this visibility MAXimum, ACI promised all 5 sponsors that their logos would be carried on all cars. Rehaan is correct. If this promise was not made, and all I was getting was a few banners, I would have paid a LOT less.

Not because we'll sell more speakers because Ford Rocam and Viper had a JBL sticker on their mutant Honda city cars.

But because it's easier for me to justify to my company what I did with those lacs and lacs of rupees.

In an effort to deliver their promise, they made it mandatory for all participants to carry those stickers. You were informed it was part of the rules. You complied.
Some did not comply and got away because of bad management.

I did expect a lot of repercussions due to bad event management. I expected people to get pissed off with the scenario I saw.

I did not expect sporting drivers to be complaining about the stickers they were apparently forced to place on their cars. I really didn't. Shows how little I know.
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Old 13th March 2008, 15:06   #40
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I am pretty sure that the compulsion of sponsor stickers on your car was a part of the printed rules. But even if it wasn't, so what? Rules evolve with time.....Team-BHP is proof of that. Maybe it was a last minute demand of the sponsors and ACI had no choice. It is the sponsor money that is paying for the mega bills of a two day speedrun, not the inconsequential participation fees.

If it was so easy to organise a legal drag race, we'd have one every week. How come Mumbai has only one legal drag race each year? Because it is outright expensive to host one, thats why. And I am not even getting into the headache of procuring the relevant permissions from the authorities, as also the logistics required.

As petrolheads, this event provides us with one of the verrrrrrrrrry few opportunities to get together and race. BIG DEAL that you have to sport a couple of sponsor stickers on your car. If you don't want them, try looking for unsponsored races. With that, you had better also be prepared to pay 50 times the entry fee you just did, else there wont be no event.

I can totally understand the complaints that some participants / spectators had with the overall organisation of the event. But such a big deal about sponsor stickers? Maybe this attitude is exactly why corporates prefer to stay away from Indian motorsports.
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Old 13th March 2008, 15:11   #41
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It seems to be a constant tiff- between who pays and who organizes. If you are willing to put the sponsors logos, then you pay less, else you pay more. Case to cite- the RDH.

Now, as much as these five sponsors came forward to sponsor the speed run, it is a small step in the right direction. Yes, motorsports needs a LOT more money that it gets, and we are crying ourselves hoarse with that, btu then - unless there is sufficient media coverage - what will happen.

Open any Indian MOtor magazine - you will see just about 3 pages dedicated to Indian Motor sports. Why is that? when you have more pages dedicated for a classified section of the paper- and its not like the classifieds alone pay for the printing costs.

Approximately 60% of the news paper is advertisements.

How many lifestyle magazines cover cricket? almost all.
How many lifestyle magazines cover motorsports? ___________________

The issue cropping up with the sticker placement is one that warrants a lot more attention because its about viewership.
The recent races held at chennai had a large turnout of spectators. However, if the infrastructure had been in place - we could have handled a lot more. this time there was a LOT more press coverage with a TV crew and many magazine folks coming donw ,its a move in the right direction.

this might be moving slowly, but they are moving. apparently F1 is the 2nd most watched sport in India after Cricket- improvement... yes.

I think we need, as a community, to raise the awareness levels. Through our contacts to talk about the speed run, the races over the weekends, the INRC and other rallys like th Rally of Arunachal and the RDH. we should take prospective sponsors to these places, show them the excitement tht is there. that way - WE are being the change we want to see...as the Mr. G said!

Now:
Quote:
(d) it does not encroach upon the space reserved for plates, competition number and organisers stickers
in this case I would have assumed that ACI was the Organiser and not the 5 sponsors. However, there will be a constant debate on that.

And as for having just one Event in BBay - why did they cancel the Bangalore one? Blore SR might have been as exciting with many more participants.

Last edited by madan80 : 13th March 2008 at 15:14. Reason: Wanted a cup of tea!
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Old 13th March 2008, 15:28   #42
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(d) it does not encroach upon the space reserved for plates, competition number and organisers stickers
Ok, so there it is. Still, must we be so rigid? I mean, cant we be expected to co-operate just only so much to say "No problem, I'll put those sponsor stickers on my car. Considering this is the only legal drag race that takes place in the city, putting a sticker or two to support this event is the least that I can do, as a petrolhead".

Last edited by GTO : 13th March 2008 at 15:38.
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Old 13th March 2008, 15:31   #43
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I really don't see what all this fuss is about. people here are saying that its my car, i brought it here, i am drivig it blah blah, but where are u driving it? In your own farmhouse? NO right? Its on a drag strip! And do we have a proper drag strip here? NO! and can any tom dick or harry organize a drag race here? NO! And do u guys really think that the 1000 rupees u guys paid paid for the whole damn race expenses?? again NO!! As Sam said, most of the money paid is by the sponsors, and why do u guys think they are doing it? So that they can see souped up cars run for a quarter mile? NO!! they do it for publicity!! The sponsors pay through their noses, which effectively funds almost the entire event, ie, the track, the safety equipment,permissions and stuff like that!And in return for all that all they are asking is for putting a measly sticker on your car, and people whine away to glory for that!! Sheesh! Somebody here was saying the organizers are getting all the benefits from the sponsors, and the participants, none! What do u guys expect? U want to be paid for running your car on the track??.

This is the main reason why nothing ever happens in this country. All we know to do is COMPLAIN!! and do nothing about it!

P.S: i do not represent any company that took part in the SR!
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Old 13th March 2008, 15:51   #44
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Sam, Dont you think the mis-management has affected the sponsors as well. If we just consider the stickering part:
A.) Failure in checking the whether sponsors stickers are present on ALL the cars without any discrimination.
B)Ensuring the stickering is in place well in advance instead of the last minute checks.

Given all this, why would anyone want to sponsor such an event? . To me, a sub-standard and miss-managed event is not the place to advertise, even if its the only drag event thats on in the country right now !! I guess, feedback from the sponsors to the organisers will go a long way than any multi-page threads here on the forum.
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Old 13th March 2008, 16:06   #45
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Default i concurrrrr ....

On the above issue of Sponsor stickers .. my take ..

In my personal opinion, what i think is lacking here is perspective.

@ Ananth - Hi .. first off, please let me say that i have read and enjoyed a lot of your technical articles and am greatly impressed with your technical knowledge. Please understand that I'm not being personal here, i'm just trying to point out what i think is causing the difference of opinion.

Your view of the sponsors not imposing on the participants because they have not sponsored the participants themselves is, in a way, justified .. but from an American perspective, where motorsport is already established and widely recognised. Consequently there are a larger no. of sponsors who sponsor these many motorsport events (due to sufficient visibility) and hence more funds poured in.

However the scenario here in India is very very different. Why is it that there are so few companies sponsoring Indian motorsport whereas anyone who sells anything, advertises in cricket. Companies don't want to put money into Indian motorsport because the percentage of the Indian population that actually watches or follows motorsport, (though growing) is still very negligible. It stands to reason that a sponsor would rather spend his 10 lakhs on sponsoring a few mins. of cricket than a speed run in Mumbai, as the visibility afforded to him there is much much greater. This in turn would mean less money for the sport and consequently fewer events. So where does that leave our beloved sport ? People who are / have been associated with motorsport in India, firsthand, will stand testament to the fact that it is an extremely frustrating and discouraging scenario.
Considering the sorry state of motorsport in India, i would think that genuine enthusiasts would try and do whatever is humanly possible to promote the sport, so that, at the very least, they get the chance to keep racing. What we need here is to gradually coax more and more companies into sponsoring Indian motorsport and the only way to do that is by maximising their visibility. At this current stage if it means that the participants need to do something as trivial as put a few stickers on their cars, i don't see the big deal. I don't think it's an extraordinarily grave request. Personally, i would rather put a sticker on my car knowing that it's going to keep the sponsor happy and (maybe) coming back than risk losing the speedrun. In the interest of the sport, i think we need to put our egos aside and maintain a broader perspective, especially when the issue is as trivial as that of a few stickers. As it is, apart from the 2 main sponsors there were only 4 other sponsors. If out of these four, 2 pull out because of not enough visibility, next year we'll have only two. Then what, eventually no speedrun ????
When motorsport does get properly organised in India and gains more popularity (with the sponsors), then we can afford to be more demanding.
At this point, fortunately or unfortunately, we need them.

As for the point of some being allowed to run and some others not, that's mis-management, which is another issue in itself.

That said, Mr. Sponsor, the stickers better not spoil my paint job ..
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