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Old 9th February 2005, 18:22   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
But in a way it's possible. Imagine a 2 cars accelerating from a starting point. Car A takes off pretty fast and gains atleast 2 car lenghts over the car B, but then, car B wit it's bigger engine capacity begins to play catch up and by the time they cross the 1/4 mile mark, they both finish at the same time.

Shan2nu
Car B has a faster terminal speed than Car A

That nailed it buddy
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Old 9th February 2005, 19:24   #32
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Originally Posted by Tom
Killer....do the timings qouted in the US include reaction time?
as far as i know reaction time is just that, your reaction time at the lights and then your ET (Elapsed time) time is measured at 60ft, 300ft, 1000ft and finally at the 1/4. With a proper timing system your ET doesnt begin to be calculated until you have moved about 8 inches so that pretty much isolates your reaction time from your ET. Heres a neat article that should answer all the questions you guyz have been asking

http://www.turbobricks.com/resources...uartermiledyno

heres joe mejias timing slip when he did 9.3@146mph on his nitrous RD400. 1.3secs at 60ft is pretty damn impressive


Last edited by Killer : 9th February 2005 at 19:27.
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Old 9th February 2005, 19:37   #33
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In that case it's possible Stephen did an ET of 9.xx right?
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Old 9th February 2005, 19:48   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
In that case it's possible Stephen did an ET of 9.xx right?
if they are adding the reaction time in our local drags, yes thats possible, but then they shouldnt be doing that, better yet, they should just give us a friggin timing slip with a breakup!!!

Heres some more info about the staging part and the term called 'rollout', this proves that reaction time is separate from elapsed time.



This illustration shows the relationship of the two staging beams to a front tire. Breaking both light beams stages the car and positions it on the starting line. The height of the front tire dramatically affects the amount of rollout. Rollout is the distance the front tire will roll before the Stage beam is reconnected, which initiates the timers. Shallow staging is when the front tire just barely breaks the Stage beam. This position allows the greatest amount of rollout distance. If you continue to roll the car forward after the Stage light is lit, eventually the Pre-Stage light will go out. This is called deep staging and may be illegal in some forms of bracket racing. Shallow staging produces the most rollout, which is essentially a head start. Deep staging eliminates that head start, which will slow the e.t. but improve the reaction time.

source: www.hotrod.com

Last edited by Killer : 9th February 2005 at 19:49.
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Old 9th February 2005, 21:45   #35
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Killer, what you are talking about is bracket racing. In this, the reaction time is solely for sorting out a tie situation if both ET's are the same, where the person with the quicker RT wins.

What ACI run is simply a flat out race from the green light to the finish line. Here, the clock starts as soon as the light turns green, whether or not you break the beam or not. This is easier for the crowd and press to understand, hence it is followed. It's not right or wrong, its just a different way to run it.

The thing is, ACI are not organising these events out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it for publicity, and this is the easiest way for them. That's why they have such open technical regulations as well.
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Old 10th February 2005, 03:44   #36
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RTech, I am aware of what bracket racing is, however your missing my point here. Reaction time is calculated in both bracket as well as regular head to head drag racing. The difference is that in bracket racing your reaction time is taken into account where as in head to head drag it isnt (unless the ET's result in a tie). In regular drag racing a good reaction time ( say of 0.500 secs) is a good reflection of the riders skills and thats pretty much all its there for unless ofcourse we have a tie scenario as i mentioned before. My point from my previous posts is that reaction time is not part of the Elapsed time and shouldnt be added to it as the riders overall time, it should be shown as it normally is separately, in the time slip. I have seen these time slips being generated at our ACI as well as local drags and they do include the reaction time, they should be giving those time slips to the riders who are paying good money to take part and not just announcing what they feel like.

Last edited by Killer : 10th February 2005 at 03:47.
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Old 10th February 2005, 04:24   #37
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sorry read your post again, u did mention the tie scenario and ur right. Just one question though, are u 100% sure its just a flat out race u guyz have over there ? i had sneaked a peek at the time slips over here and i'm pretty sure there was a detailed breakup including reaction time. I'm real pissed that they arent issuing them to the riders, whats the big idea in witholding them if their printing them out anyway ? we still have a long way to go to even think on international standards
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Old 10th February 2005, 10:27   #38
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Quote:
Reaction time is calculated in both bracket as well as regular head to head drag racing. The difference is that in bracket racing your reaction time is taken into account where as in head to head drag it isnt (unless the ET's result in a tie).
I think you got that the other way around. In bracket racing, the reaction time is seperate from the ET.

Quote:
My point from my previous posts is that reaction time is not part of the Elapsed time and shouldnt be added to it as the riders overall time, it should be shown as it normally is separately, in the time slip.
Yup. No doubt about that.

Quote:
Just one question though, are u 100% sure its just a flat out race u guyz have over there ? i had sneaked a peek at the time slips over here and i'm pretty sure there was a detailed breakup including reaction time.
Yea, I am sure. In mumbai last year, I was seeing what the printer was churning out. It had the correct breakup on the timeslip, but the ET included the RT as well. For e.g. A guy who stalled before even breaking the beam was given a time of 25 secs or so. This can only happen is the clock starts as soon as the light turns green.

Quote:
I have seen these time slips being generated at our ACI as well as local drags and they do include the reaction time, they should be giving those time slips to the riders who are paying good money to take part and not just announcing what they feel like.
Quote:
I'm real pissed that they arent issuing them to the riders, whats the big idea in witholding them if their printing them out anyway ? we still have a long way to go to even think on international standards
Like I said, ACI organises these drags mainly for additional publicity. Running a head to head race is the easiest for them. Try explaining all this RT and ET to the press and sponsors!

Yes, there is a long way to go before we reach International Standards, but lets credit ACI with atleast making a start and make (legal) drag racing popular in India.

Until we have a purpose made drag strip in India, I think we all have to compromise a bit.

Last edited by Rtech : 10th February 2005 at 10:29.
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Old 10th February 2005, 10:51   #39
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In many pics of drags abroad I see those extended fairings(long tailish look) in the busas and other bikes.... Do those help in getting a better ET??
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Old 10th February 2005, 12:15   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinsanity
In many pics of drags abroad I see those extended fairings(long tailish look) in the busas and other bikes.... Do those help in getting a better ET??
The longish farings that you are talking about are a major mod they extend the rear swing arm to bring the weight of the bike forward leading to a longer tailpiece , hence the feeling of a longer rear faring, this is to stop the bike from doing a wheelie.

They also use wheelie bars at the back they are specifically put to allow a rider to take off without a wheelie. please note most of the pro stock car dragsters also have them at the back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
Yea, I am sure. In mumbai last year, I was seeing what the printer was churning out. It had the correct breakup on the timeslip, but the ET included the RT as well. For e.g. A guy who stalled before even breaking the beam was given a time of 25 secs or so. This can only happen is the clock starts as soon as the light turns green.
Also I think that it should be mandatory for the organiser's to provide each entrant with a TimeSlip at the end of each run, as the time slips do not only have the 1/4 mile time but also a lot of additional data that the entrant can use.

Some additional factor's that critically alter the run times are DewPoint, temprature, altitude and the tarmac. Do not forget the time taken to shift gears that's where the driving skill comes in.

Also find below a sheet that gives probable 1/4 mile times for a given speed provided you have a constant acceleration.

ET MPH KMPH
9 150.3333 241.938
9.1 148.6813 239.2794
9.2 147.0652 236.6785
9.3 145.4839 234.1336
9.4 143.9362 231.6428
9.5 142.4211 229.2045
9.6 140.9375 226.8169
9.7 139.4845 224.4786
9.8 138.0612 222.188
9.9 136.6667 219.9437
10 135.3 217.7442
10.1 133.9604 215.5884
10.2 132.6471 213.4747
10.3 131.3592 211.4022
10.4 130.0962 209.3695
10.5 128.8571 207.3755
10.6 127.6415 205.4191
10.7 126.4486 203.4993
10.8 125.2778 201.615
10.9 124.1284 199.7654
11 123 197.9493
11.1 121.8919 196.166
11.2 120.8036 194.4145
11.3 119.7345 192.694
11.4 118.6842 191.0037
11.5 117.6522 189.3428
11.6 116.6379 187.7106
11.7 115.641 186.1062
11.8 114.661 184.529
11.9 113.6975 182.9784
12 112.75 181.4535
12.1 111.8182 179.9539
12.2 110.9016 178.4789
12.3 110 177.0278
12.4 109.1129 175.6002
12.5 108.24 174.1954
12.6 107.381 172.8129
12.7 106.5354 171.4522
12.8 105.7031 170.1127
12.9 104.8837 168.794
13 104.0769 167.4956
13.1 103.2824 166.217
13.2 102.5 164.9578
13.3 101.7293 163.7175
13.4 100.9701 162.4957
13.5 100.2222 161.292
13.6 99.48529 160.1061
13.7 98.75912 158.9374
13.8 98.04348 157.7857
13.9 97.33813 156.6505
14 96.64286 155.5316
14.1 95.95745 154.4285
14.2 95.28169 153.341
14.3 94.61538 152.2687
14.4 93.95833 151.2113
14.5 93.31034 150.1684
14.6 92.67123 149.1399
14.7 92.04082 148.1253
14.8 91.41892 147.1245
14.9 90.80537 146.1371
15 90.2 145.1628
15.1 89.60265 144.2015
15.2 89.01316 143.2528
15.3 88.43137 142.3165
15.4 87.85714 141.3924
15.5 87.29032 140.4802
15.6 86.73077 139.5796
15.7 86.17834 138.6906
15.8 85.63291 137.8128
15.9 85.09434 136.9461
16 84.5625 136.0902
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Old 10th February 2005, 12:40   #41
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Wow Psycho, awesome stuff there....

But wont the longer swing arm add to the weight??
But we r talking about really powerful monsters with N2O etc, so i guess the weight factor is negated!!!!!
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Old 11th February 2005, 03:32   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinsanity
Wow Psycho, awesome stuff there....

But wont the longer swing arm add to the weight??
But we r talking about really powerful monsters with N2O etc, so i guess the weight factor is negated!!!!!

Those wheelie bars are made of light weight aircraft grade aluminium...They are extremely light but pretty strong and serve the purpose fairly well...But I have seen clips where a bad rider wheelies out of proportion and the tail protrusion snaps off and the bike suddeny looks like a scrap yard...lol...
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Old 16th March 2005, 05:26   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
If the times are the same, shouldn't the speed be the same as well??

I mean, say for example a guy has a bad start but is on a much more powerful bike, he could make up the difference in lost time to cross the line at the same time as the other guy. But theoratically, their speeds should be the same as well.

How can 2 vehicles cover the exact same distance in the exact same time, but at different speeds?

Lets say bike can cover 350 meters in 5 secs, leaving him a full 5.5 secs to cover the balance 50 meters. That final 50 meters could then be covered at maybe even 100 mph, hence the speed as taken at the finish would egister 100mph, but the total time maybe the same 10.5 sec.


So that means bike A would be a quicker bike as it probably reaches 100kmph faster than bike B, but bike B has more top end, hence claws back that time at the end and registers a higher top speed, but the same elapsed time.

Lol Shan, I was writing the same thing at the same time as you, you got it up 3 mins ahead of me!

Hey Tom, I was not talking about any particular bike or place, just discussing the principle behind it.
Well, I'm no drag racing expert but I know my physics pretty well. And yes the explanation in the latter part of above quoted post is correct. You can expect both vehicles to clock the same AVERAGE speed if they've covered 400m in exactly same amount of time. Because Avg speed = Total Distance/Total Time, but obviously you dont just start of the start line at avg speed, as someone said its more about the acceleration differences in both the vehicles, remember, even the avg acceleration will be same for both the vehicles avg acceleration=Total dist/square of total time.

Velocity and acceleration at finish line are instantaneous values which can only be same if the vehicles have identical capabilities.
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Old 16th March 2005, 12:34   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
If the times are the same, shouldn't the speed be the same as well??
I mean, say for example a guy has a bad start but is on a much more powerful bike, he could make up the difference in lost time to cross the line at the same time as the other guy. But theoratically, their speeds should be the same as well.

How can 2 vehicles cover the exact same distance in the exact same time, but at different speeds?

Lets say bike can cover 350 meters in 5 secs, leaving him a full 5.5 secs to cover the balance 50 meters. That final 50 meters could then be covered at maybe even 100 mph, hence the speed as taken at the finish would egister 100mph, but the total time maybe the same 10.5 sec.


So that means bike A would be a quicker bike as it probably reaches 100kmph faster than bike B, but bike B has more top end, hence claws back that time at the end and registers a higher top speed, but the same elapsed time.
I agree with the t-hooligan
In this case only the terminal speeds differ due to the acceleration being different, but the average speed will remain the SAME for both!
cheers,
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Old 17th March 2005, 02:42   #45
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thats common sense guys
Average Speed will be same
Finish Line speed will of course differ

Shan2nu:
If 2 vehicles cross the start point at 100 kmph and keep it at that speed until the end, they'll obvoiusly have the exact speed and........the time taken by these 2 vehicles to cover that 1/4 mile will be the same.

Calculating accelelration is not really that easy, nor is it accurate. So, 2 vehicles with the same 1/4 mile time can have diff speeds.

Usually i've seen that a bike doing the same 1/4 mile time as that of a car has a slightly faster speed reading.

^^^^
thats what i mean !!!!
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