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Old 28th June 2009, 22:44   #121
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
..........

...... The result sheets may have been ripped by the crowd- its the organiser's responsibility to ensure that the final timings are made available- and definitely not a participant's to snap all the pinned results and post the pics on a forum......
I am appaled that some journalists require to be spoon fed with every last bit of information. The competitors and the spectators had access to the times. In fact, I saw one competitor check the times on his phone after his run. That to my mind is information in real time (or close to real time). I have seen the provisional/final lists (with the detailed times) on the board for all the classes. I am sure APMSC has the originals on file for scrutiny by participants, FMSCI and accredited journalists.

Yes, a display board would be nice and I too wish it were there, but these things cost money and take time in coming. If all concerned contribute their mite by arranging for sponsorship (or even small donations) - for the organisers, for participants and for the sport in general, equipment will be available sooner.

If reporters need to be given detailed handouts by the organisers, the reporters are, IMHO, redundant. The organisers can very well send a 'press note' or 'press release' to all publications. Perhaps, it is this tendency on the part of the journos to turn in poorly researched pieces based on the press kits dished out by establishments that has prompted publications to desist from bearing the expenses of journalists who, as a consequence, are now forced to pay for their own fuel, accomodation etc.

If I am not mistaken, the prevailing practice regarding expenses on covering out of town events is as follows: in case of a reporter who is on the staff - all expenses are borne by the publication; if the journalist is not on the rolls but is commissioned to cover an event - all expenses are reimbursed and sometimes money is advanced to meet expenses; small local publications do not bear any expenses but rely on the reports of 'stringers'; reporters who are not comissioned by any publication and are 'free-lancing' in the hope of selling a piece have to bear their own expenses.

It is sad to see establishments pamper journalists and pander to their every whim in the hope of a 'good press'. I hope more establishments stick it out and not bend over backwards at the mention of "PRESS".

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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
......
5. Scrutiny was fair.
6. Organisers were polite and courteous to participants.

Wishlist for next time would include:
1. Timing slips and display boards -- I think this is unfortunately in the hands of ACI (their equipment) and FMSCI, so I don't really expect anything to happen in this regard, for the next decade or so.
2. Water box to perform burnouts.
3. Even better barricading.

I was told that if this event picks up, the title sponsors might seriously consider building a dragstrip and buy timing equipment. That would be just super. As of now, this is all we have, and it seems to be getting better. Atleast the organisers are trying pretty hard.
Right down sporting of you to say the above, considering the run-ins you had during scrutiny. I really appreciate your spirit and genuine interest in bettering the motorsport scene.

I second your wish-list, I hope APMSC and sponsors are listening.

Cheers,
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Old 28th June 2009, 23:10   #122
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To be fair, most organisers do hand out press kits. I think it would be nice if they could display times a little better. Going by their track record, I think the APMSC will have sorted this out by the next installment.
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Old 28th June 2009, 23:55   #123
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
I am appaled that some journalists require to be spoon fed with every last bit of information. The competitors and the spectators had access to the times.
Ok, I'll tell you this- all this 'appalling' is no good, I can't believe how some are hell bent on proving the wrong as right in the shadow of other completely unrelated phenomenon. Just don't blindly accuse the 'press' without knowing who it is, whether your local vernacular newspaper or a national publication which knows what its talking about.

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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
I have seen the provisional/final lists (with the detailed times) on the board for all the classes. I am sure APMSC has the originals on file for scrutiny by participants, FMSCI and accredited journalists.
Yeah you can have them on file for two decades- but unless anyone sees it, its pretty much useless. Results aren't classified info- apart from the competitors and the press, even the mere enthusiast is entitled to view and comment on them. How else can the organisers expect participation to grow? Unless all those enthusiasts aspire to be seen on those result sheets and hopefully get media space which will get them sponsors and so on. Thats motorsports progression for you.

All this unless the organisers aren't sure of the authenticity of the results and don't want people asking questions. Something on the lines of- "How legitimate is the 11.6 second ET run by the GT-R?". Hope you get the drift.

Want to see an example of how it should be done?? This is it:

MMSC - Madras Motor Sports Club

And this is what the 'press' gets in person before they leave the venue.


Deccan Quartermile Drag II- June 20th and 21st 2009-dsc05951.jpg


And now don't tell me that a budget of Rs. 103456 needs to be allocated to achieve this.


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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post

If reporters need to be given detailed handouts by the organisers, the reporters are, IMHO, redundant. The organisers can very well send a 'press note' or 'press release' to all publications.
Welcome to the world of organising, motorsports or anything else- that's exactly how its done. And I'm telling you this because I, myself, personally am responsible in part for holding an Autocross championship in the rural areas of Karnataka to promote the sport and reach out to more people. We have significantly contributed to the national motorsport scene by churning out future national championship contenders in two and four wheeler rallying. So I know how its done and I'm certainly not shooting in the dark unlike many keyboard racers, rallyists and organisers.

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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Perhaps, it is this tendency on the part of the journos to turn in poorly researched pieces based on the press kits dished out by establishments that has prompted publications to desist from bearing the expenses of journalists who, as a consequence, are now forced to pay for their own fuel, accomodation etc.
This was a really cheap potshot- this is exactly what happens when you assume what you want to and don't even spend a moment dwelling on what the reality might be behind someone's statement.

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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
If I am not mistaken, the prevailing practice regarding expenses on covering out of town events is as follows: in case of a reporter who is on the staff - all expenses are borne by the publication; if the journalist is not on the rolls but is commissioned to cover an event - all expenses are reimbursed and sometimes money is advanced to meet expenses.
Looks like you have had some bit of experience in this field throwing all that jargon- which isn't very deep as suggested by your statements.

This is what I said a few pages back:

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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
In our case, we drove all the way to Hyd, spent our money for own fuel, accommodation etc. hoping to cover the event in detail.
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Small local publications do not bear any expenses but rely on the reports of 'stringers'; reporters who are not comissioned by any publication and are 'free-lancing' in the hope of selling a piece have to bear their own expenses.
Having comfortably assumed that a 'free-lancer' in the hope of selling a piece to someone has to bear his own expenses, let me tell you this.

The reason I used the words 'our money'- because I own a part of the publication I work for- and all expense was of course charged to the company- but it will ultimately show up as a reduction from our net revenue and potential profit numbers.

And trust me, NO publication- even if it manages an eight-digit turnover (which we don't BTW), will go out of the way and spend their own money to cover an unknown event. We did it because we saw hope in the event- as something to resurrect drag racing scene in India, sadly it wasn't to happen.

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It is sad to see establishments pamper journalists and pander to their every whim in the hope of a 'good press'.
I don't know how many establishments you have seen, and how many motorsport events you have witnessed in your lifetime- but you are DEAD WRONG. Press, at least the knowledgable, industry-specific media, doesn't need to be pampered. Organise a good event with all basics in the right place, fair results, with the right attitude and passion and you've hit the nail on the head.

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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
I hope more establishments stick it out and not bend over backwards at the mention of "PRESS".
Dream on, it ain't gonna happen. And I don't say this because I want o 'misuse' my credentials, but because I've seen many fellow mediapersons doing it and bringing a bad name to the industry in general.

Last edited by doomsday : 28th June 2009 at 23:56.
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Old 29th June 2009, 02:11   #124
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
To be fair, most organisers do hand out press kits. I think it would be nice if they could display times a little better. Going by their track record, I think the APMSC will have sorted this out by the next installment.
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
..........

Yeah you can have them on file for two decades- but unless anyone sees it, its pretty much useless. Results aren't classified info- apart from the competitors and the press, even the mere enthusiast is entitled to view and comment on them. How else can the organisers expect participation to grow? Unless all those enthusiasts aspire to be seen on those result sheets and hopefully get media space which will get them sponsors and so on. Thats motorsports progression for you.

........ We did it because we saw hope in the event- as something to resurrect drag racing scene in India, sadly it wasn't to happen.
...................
And I don't say this because I want o 'misuse' my credentials, but because I've seen many fellow mediapersons doing it and bringing a bad name to the industry in general.
Finally a meeting of minds.

What I have been trying to say all along - the times are there. Just because one person or a section of people are not given a copy does not mean they do not exist. As per your earlier posts, you were informed that the results & times were put up on the notice board, however rudely or curtly this may have been said, it is very different from them refusing to let you see the results and times.

APMSC went into hibernation years ago and is now waking up, writing them off as "know it all wannabes" after the 1st edition of an event is not warranted. Incidentally, I am not a member of the APMSC and do not know any of the office-bearers or organisers or sponsors personally.

I agree with v1p3r, I too see the utility of a press kit and am all for it. In events like this, the press kit should include - a final result sheet with times and other details. It is however a convenience and not a yardstick to determine wether an event is properly conducted or not. Just because a result sheet with the times was not handed out to the press does not mean that the results are cooked. If the organisers refuse to let people see the result/time sheet, then one would be justified in calling them crooks. Honey does attract more flies than vinegar, personal attacks are normally counter productive. No, I am not a journalist.

India is right now busy sending 'wish-lists' to the Finance Minister in the run up to the budget. I suggest that we similarly send a wish list to APMSC. Constructive criticism does help. Even if it does not, there is no harm in trying.

Cheers,
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Old 29th June 2009, 11:38   #125
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post

What I have been trying to say all along - the times are there. Just because one person or a section of people are not given a copy does not mean they do not exist. As per your earlier posts, you were informed that the results & times were put up on the notice board, however rudely or curtly this may have been said, it is very different from them refusing to let you see the results and times.
Guess I didn't put things across clearly. I did not attend this edition of the event- as I was not interested in wasting my weekend (precious commodity for me as all motorsports happens only on weekends) for nothing, so I couldn't see the results pinned on the board in person and just saw what bhpians posted here.


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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post

APMSC went into hibernation years ago and is now waking up, writing them off as "know it all wannabes" after the 1st edition of an event is not warranted.

.....

It is however a convenience and not a yardstick to determine wether an event is properly conducted or not. Just because a result sheet with the times was not handed out to the press does not mean that the results are cooked. If the organisers refuse to let people see the result/time sheet, then one would be justified in calling them crooks.
I'm somewhat aware of APMSC's credentials, its great to see they have finally acknowledged their existence- but what do you do when you've not been in touch with the sport for this long? You talk to people who are active in the sport, pay heed to their advice, see how things have changed vis--vis a decade or two ago- especially in a technically intensive sport like drag racing which wasn't in existence even a decade ago. Pretty much anyone can organise a TSD rally and claim they have been into the sport for x,y,z years- doesn't really help too much. Instead of throwing around 'know-it-all' attitude like in the first installment, ask- people are willing to help, before organising an event of this magnitude- enthusiasts and press have high expectations from anything happening in the motorsport arena in the country. Just because the ego of APMSC prevents them from taking some much needed 'mashvira' (as they say in Urdu), why should the participants and press care to come back (like it happened this time around).

And I'll tell you, 99% of the general public WILL NOT notice the discrepencies in the results, but most knowledge media would- that's our job. Once I was at a national level karting event in Goa, and at the end of it we were handed out hourly lap times (it was a 24-hr event) and I suddenly noticed that someone did a ten second lap on the circuit. I brought this to the organiser's notice and he clarified that he had lapped a participant and thus it had registered that time. No one noticed it on the boards, it was there all day long for the public to view- that's something called eye for detail.

I never said the results are cooked- I just said that there might be other reasons, someone accidently triggering the beam for example, and registering a wrong timing. Hope I've made myself clear.

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Old 29th June 2009, 23:46   #126
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Ok, super. Now that we have that out of the way, I'd just like to thank the Hyderabad BHPians for their amazing support and hospitality. And a special mention to Prabhu and his team at Mars for their super work, late into the night on more than one occasion, and basically just being great guys. Cheers to them.
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Old 30th June 2009, 02:20   #127
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just one last question? which team did the esteem belong to? in sense, on saturday while doing the practice runs i'd guess, this esteem beat the merc, who did it belong to?
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Old 6th July 2009, 17:05   #128
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just one last question? which team did the esteem belong to? in sense, on saturday while doing the practice runs i'd guess, this esteem beat the merc, who did it belong to?
it was owned by a guy called jayanth from bangalore,it had team thrust written all over it.his picture is posted below,he is the guy wearing the STP hat.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:34   #129
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Something on the lines of- "How legitimate is the 11.6 second ET run by the GT-R?". Hope you get the drift?
Rishi, let me clarify as binz and myself for probably the closest to the timing equipment at that point of time. The GT-R result was accurate because the man didn't break the beam until the run was over. However there was this other person who did mess up the Supra run.


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Guess I didn't put things across clearly. I did not attend this edition of the event- as I was not interested in wasting my weekend (precious commodity for me as all motorsports happens only on weekends) for nothing, so I couldn't see the results pinned on the board in person and just saw what bhpians posted here.
I am glad we didn't waste our time going to Hyderabad. Infact this is one of the better drag events that I have seen in my life time (and I have seen my share). The organizers just need a bit of support and help to get it right. It would help if you toned down your criticism a bit. Also, if it indeed was waste of time, why send binz to click some snaps and ask him not to publish it until it was printed on your mag?

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Old 15th July 2009, 14:34   #130
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Rishi, let me clarify as binz and myself for probably the closest to the timing equipment at that point of time. The GT-R result was accurate because the man didn't break the beam until the run was over. However there was this other person who did mess up the Supra run.
I was citing an example and was hoping others would get the point. And in any case someone's personal vouching shouldn't be needed to confirm a said timing- it just should be there in black & white (aka timing boards or time slips) for all to see.

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Also, if it indeed was waste of time, why send binz to click some snaps and ask him not to publish it until it was printed on your mag?
Don't want to sound rude here Rahul, but I would appreciate if you could do a little background research before you ask questions like this. It wasn't ME who asked Binz to click pics at the event, infact he called me before leaving to Hyd and asked if I would like to use his snaps in the mag. I told him to go ahead and shoot and depending on how the event fares, we'll see if it earns space in print. Once I got a positive report (compared to the last time) I told him we'll carry it in the next issue. And its editorial policy (for any publication) that the material should be for exclusive use of the publication before being posted over facebook et al.

Hope I have made myself clear.
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Old 15th July 2009, 23:42   #131
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Rishi, no offense but I think you can put across your point in a more polite way to the organizers, who have already improved the event leaps and bounds to what I heard previously. Shouting at the top of your voice is not going to change things or make things better.

AFAIK, binz landed up there with a letter from your mag that gave him the press badge to shoot for the event. Your story seems a lot different to it. Anyways, the point I was trying to make is that give them a chance to improve rather than making comments like "I dint want to waste my time". It comes across as a bit distasteful, specially coming from a true enthu like you.

Would I watch/take part in the next event they are planning to host in September?
Most definitely yes, unless I am out of town with family.

My plea to the organizers, give out timing slips to participants. As funds get better, maybe get a better strip thats even.

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Old 16th July 2009, 00:28   #132
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Rishi, no offense but I think you can put across your point in a more polite way to the organizers, who have already improved the event leaps and bounds to what I heard previously.
Tried that already, didn't work out- at least at the first event which I attended. Don't know if the situation has improved now and if they are open to useful 'inputs'.

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AFAIK, binz landed up there with a letter from your mag that gave him the press badge to shoot for the event. Your story seems a lot different to it. Anyways, the point I was trying to make is that give them a chance to improve rather than making comments like "I dint want to waste my time". It comes across as a bit distasteful, specially coming from a true enthu like you.
Yes, Binz did get the letter- but only after he came forward and showed interest in shooting for the mag, not vice-versa. The letter was supposed inform the organisers that he was representing the mag and thus allow him access to the strip to take pictures which he otherwise wouldn't have got. 'Accreditation' is the term you are looking for. He couldn't have done much if he just walked up without any id and asked for access to the strip. It was just to make things easier for him. So my story isn't very different I guess.

I did say I didn't want to waste my time because I knew the participant turnout way before the event. There was absolutely nothing to look forward to, save maybe the GT-R (which I knew had been modded and would be running). I am a serious enthusiast- it takes a lot for me to say 'no' to any motorsport event- be it an autoX/rallying/road racing and especially drag racing. But the bad taste the previous event left in my mouth is still very much there. Like the adage goes- 'first impression is the last'- same thing goes for the participants and I guess it showed.

The event and attitude may have changed now, and I'm willing to give it a shot at its next installment. Hope things would be better still in three months time.
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Old 30th July 2009, 20:05   #133
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hey mr.ravveendrra and everyone else, iam the driver who was put against the esteem from Bangalore(car no.18) which you were reffering to.now honestly tell me do you think it should run in the street-stock category? i dont think so, iam sure the car has more mods than just, headers,filter, ecu remap(although i dont think the 1994 esteem had an ecu)and plugs. that was all we could do in our category according to the 'rule book'. iam dead sure that its been modded till stage2 N/A(port-polish and all) .

...
...
...

didnt push this to the organisers/stewards as i knew there was nothing that could have happend as they would have told me i had a jump start anyways.will be getting in touch with one the organiser tomorrow so that this does Not happen the next time.
Hi! This is to inform you that a completely stock Esteem MPFI with properly designed exhaust and a Race Dynamics ecu is capable of 16 seconds. 16 seconds is the time I have posted at the Speed Run 2008 at Kharghar, Bombay, in my rally car which carries an additional burden of the Roll Cage. If Jayant did 17 seconds, there is nothing illegal with his car. Infact, there is scope for improvement.
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Old 30th July 2009, 21:13   #134
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Hi! This is to inform you that a completely stock Esteem MPFI with properly designed exhaust and a Race Dynamics ecu is capable of 16 seconds. 16 seconds is the time I have posted at the Speed Run 2008 at Kharghar, Bombay, in my rally car which carries an additional burden of the Roll Cage. If Jayant did 17 seconds, there is nothing illegal with his car. Infact, there is scope for improvement.
Isn't it unfair to make such comparo's given than both places are at a different altitudes? Bombay timings are always around 0.5-1 sec faster than Bangalore in the same tune of the car.
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Old 31st July 2009, 02:58   #135
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Isn't it unfair to make such comparo's given than both places are at a different altitudes? Bombay timings are always around 0.5-1 sec faster than Bangalore in the same tune of the car.
For your information, I clocked a 16 in my rally Esteem in the trial runs that we had in the morning before the event started.

And let me tell you... wherever we go, be it Madras, Coimbatore, Hyderabad, Cochin, Coorg, Nasik, Bangalore, Pune, Mysore, I have the bug to try the 1/4 mile everywhere. And surprise surprise! It's about the same everywhere.... in the 16s.
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