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Old 18th September 2010, 01:41   #346
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Sorry Shan2nu, I can tell you its the worst way of learning, because you never grow out of your habbits. Anyhow I have been to many pay n practice sessions at gingerman in michigan and even their its organized.

I do track days for Fun, not as a professional, thats why I am saying, your argument of , come and drive and have fun is totally wrong. Sorry but thats a hard fact. I am quite astonished that after having a facility like this in india, there is no organization managing this.
I think you are mixing up two different things. A track day and a driving school. What you are referring to is a driving/racing school where an instructor sits with you and teaches you lines,shiftpoints and safety etc. Thats a great idea for a newbie, but why would you need an instructor for the 4th and 5th time?

I've done track days in Gingerman as well. A bunch of us got together and rented out the track. We had a driver's meeting where everyone was told the rules..thats it. As far as skill level, check out my garage pictures, you'll see my M3 along with 2 time championship winning Formula Ford during one of our Gingerman trackdays.

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Old 18th September 2010, 02:38   #347
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I think you are mixing up two different things. A track day and a driving school. What you are referring to is a driving/racing school where an instructor sits with you and teaches you lines,shiftpoints and safety etc. Thats a great idea for a newbie, but why would you need an instructor for the 4th and 5th time?

I've done track days in Gingerman as well. A bunch of us got together and rented out the track. We had a driver's meeting where everyone was told the rules..thats it. As far as skill level, check out my garage pictures, you'll see my M3 along with 2 time championship winning Formula Ford during one of our Gingerman trackdays.
Again MPower, I am not just talking about HPDEs here, track days with many many clubs include instructors and if you think you know everything in 4-5 times, then those guys who have been on the track hundreds of times wouldnt be asking for opinions and sitting with a more senior person to show them something new. I agree in 4-5 times you can learn the basic lines, but when you start pushing everything starts going south. There is a lot more to tracking than just learning the lines. I have spent about 40-50 driving hours on the track in the last few months(which is a bunch) and I can tell you every single one of those hours has never been dull, its always been something new and I sit with an instructor at Road America each time, just to get different perspective, when you start going faster, things happen a lot quicker and instructors teach you all that. Esp when you are pushing harder, you could be making mistakes unconsciously that the instructor can point out.

There is a lot to learn. My friend who has been racing for 10 years, still once in a while will take an instructor for a session or 2, just to get a different angle.

At road america, I am doing low 2:30s and this is when I am having brake issues, I will be up there 4 days in oct and will try and knock that down some and if you know RA, low 2:30s is quick and when you break the 2:30 marks, then you are flying sometimes with some race cars and I can tell you, even then I feel the need to have the instructor sit with me and make sure I am hitting my apexs right.

Anyhow I am not saying PnP is not fun, it is, but it becomes useless fun when you do not learn at the end of it. Saying we do not need organization and instructors is quite silly.

PS:- Nice shots of you at gingerman..Have you been there since the extension? When I was there with the BMW club in Jun and they had not finished construction, it was a scary as turn..

Last edited by 1Day : 18th September 2010 at 02:57.
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Old 18th September 2010, 02:46   #348
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1Day, the experienced/senior track drivers go shotgun with the newbies on the track to teach the basics of line, apex, etc.
We don't let them loose like headless chickens on the track. Don't worry.
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Old 18th September 2010, 02:54   #349
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1Day, the experienced/senior track drivers go shotgun with the newbies on the track to teach the basics of line, apex, etc.
We don't let them loose like headless chickens on the track. Don't worry.
Thats good to know so how exactly is the PnP run?
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Old 18th September 2010, 03:17   #350
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When the track is available on a sunday, it becomes a Pay N Practice day as the Club dictates.
The first half of the day is for bikers and from 1PM to 4PM, it's meant for cars.
The participants sign an indemnity with the club and pay the track fees to the club itself.
After general scrutiny and briefing by seniors, at 1 pm, the track is declared open.
And as mentioned, Seniors accompany the newbies to help them out with the basics only.
For Advanced lessons, we'll need experienced racers to help us out.

A few years ago, we had organized track days called 'Time Attack (Pics & Report: March 24-25th Track Day - Chennai)'
We're hoping to have them in a similar manner pretty soon.
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Old 18th September 2010, 03:22   #351
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
When the track is available on a sunday, it becomes a Pay N Practice day as the Club dictates.
The first half of the day is for bikers and from 1PM to 4PM, it's meant for cars.
The participants sign an indemnity with the club and pay the track fees to the club itself.
After general scrutiny and briefing by seniors, at 1 pm, the track is declared open.
And as mentioned, Seniors accompany the newbies to help them out with the basics only.
For Advanced lessons, we'll need experienced racers to help us out.

A few years ago, we had organized track days called 'Time Attack (Pics & Report: March 24-25th Track Day - Chennai)'
We're hoping to have them in a similar manner pretty soon.
Very nice, I will check the link out. So there are no sessions and/or run grps to limit how much time one person spends on the track?
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Old 18th September 2010, 03:30   #352
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There is a lot to learn. My friend who has been racing for 10 years, still once in a while will take an instructor for a session or 2, just to get a different angle...
I can agree with you in principle. Heck, even F1 drivers need someone to point out where they are making errors and to improve their laptime.

But practically speaking, things like ego/budget will prevent people from hiring an instructor all the time. Myself, learnt the hard way and then took an racing school in a shifter kart. Best $250 I ever spent. But that's it..on my own after that.

As far as India goes, there are no organized driving schools AFAIK ( Jagat runs one for rallying..thats it). So, people have to work with what they have. Best to learn in karting and then move to the track.

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PS:- Nice shots of you at gingerman..Have you been there since the extension? When I was there with the BMW club in Jun and they had not finished construction, it was a scary as turn..
Its was a few years ago actually. My last track day was in Waterford hills. I'm kinda bored of Gingerman now and want to do Putnam, MidOhio and AUtobhan. Have you tried Autobhan Joliet?..should be really close for you.

PS: I heard the GPS on the GTR recongizes tracks and cuts you loose from the nannies !!
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Old 18th September 2010, 03:45   #353
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I can agree with you in principle. Heck, even F1 drivers need someone to point out where they are making errors and to improve their laptime.

But practically speaking, things like ego/budget will prevent people from hiring an instructor all the time. Myself, learnt the hard way and then took an racing school in a shifter kart. Best $250 I ever spent. But that's it..on my own after that.

As far as India goes, there are no organized driving schools AFAIK ( Jagat runs one for rallying..thats it). So, people have to work with what they have. Best to learn in karting and then move to the track.

Its was a few years ago actually. My last track day was in Waterford hills. I'm kinda bored of Gingerman now and want to do Putnam, MidOhio and AUtobhan. Have you tried Autobhan Joliet?..should be really close for you.

PS: I heard the GPS on the GTR recongizes tracks and cuts you loose from the nannies !!
See the good part attending track days with clubs is that instructors are free and I have always found excellent instructors who are super helpful and super experienced.

I would love to see more tracks in india and maybe some more organization. I am thinking of stuff on those lines for when I get back. I want to do something in the automotive industry, just trying to figure out what all.

Gingerman was decent, I did enjoy the extension and it changed things up a little. I have done Gingerman, Putnam Park, Autobahn many many times(South, north and full, infact i was there half day yesterday testing a new product for my car with a tuner), Road America(fantastically dangerous track), Grattan(awesome awesome track), blackhawk farms. I really wanted to add VIR and Mid Ohio this year, but I think I wouldnt be able to do that. I am planning on getting more seat time by next year so I can do one lap of america in 2012 or 13.

If you want to hit autobahn, let me know. There is a really good event on the full track on Oct 4th that I am going to. Its organized by hookedondriving in conjuction with NCM(nation corvette museum). That should be a lot of fun and massively informative. I can have one my friends give you a ride in this race preped C6R, it will be a something else.

The GPS on JDM cars does the recognizing of track, US version had no such thing and I make all the nannies to R mode. I can turn off VDC but if you are smooth enough, they never kick in, but someday I will try it without VDC as well.
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Old 18th September 2010, 08:00   #354
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Anyhow I am not saying PnP is not fun, it is, but it becomes useless fun when you do not learn at the end of it. Saying we do not need organization and instructors is quite silly.
Agree to the first sentence!!

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Thats good to know so how exactly is the PnP run?
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Originally Posted by 1Day View Post
Very nice, I will check the link out. So there are no sessions and/or run grps to limit how much time one person spends on the track?
@1Day: Welcome to India. We look forward to meeting you at the next PnP session.
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Old 18th September 2010, 09:57   #355
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edit - speaking of which , when is the next P&P session guys ?
This 19th (sunday) at 1 pm.

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1Day, the experienced/senior track drivers go shotgun with the newbies on the track to teach the basics of line, apex, etc.
We don't let them loose like headless chickens on the track. Don't worry.
I did run loose like a headless chicken for a couple of laps until nitrous kindly showed me how it's done.
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Old 18th September 2010, 11:21   #356
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Is anyone from Chennai going this Sunday ?
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Old 18th September 2010, 13:03   #357
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I wish you guys could watch this splendid catch. I am unaware, where to post this. Mods, plz for forgive me & post where tis appropriate. Thanks.

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Old 18th September 2010, 14:54   #358
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Is anyone from Chennai going this Sunday ?
I am most probably going unless something comes up at the last minute. I know that yzfrj will definitely be there to test his new brakes.
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Old 18th September 2010, 16:00   #359
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K will join in too , what time are you all assembling on track ? around 1 ?
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Old 18th September 2010, 22:25   #360
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I plan to be there at 1:30 pm. Mr Bean and Anachronix said they will be there too.
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