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View Poll Results: running NOS cars vs NON-NOS cars..is it fair ????
yes,run all the cars in 1 category only,cant do much for those who cant afford NOS.. 11 13.75%
no..have two separate classes for FI(forced induction) and NON- FI.. 70 87.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25th December 2005, 20:37   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
and ananth i know whats brewing under that hood of urs with 4 wheels ..best of luck..
How can you be so sure we even have a hood?
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Old 25th December 2005, 23:03   #77
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just saw the thread...who the heck came up with this dumb rule??

all around the world there are classes in drag races....we dun have drag races in singapore...but we have the kallang rally...

classes are NA..TC...1.6, 1.8...2.0 and open class

I beleive what u guys have is the open class...but usually even in that everyone has TC and NOS....

The guys who set the rules obviously don't know what they are doing...or taking in huge amounts of cash as usual...
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Old 25th December 2005, 23:12   #78
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The best way to handle the open class is to reduce the number of entries in it. You could possible look at the top 5 cars from each cc category (FI + NA) and all other indian cars that are directly in the indian open category itself. That way if any NA car is able to take down the FI cars it stands a fair chance for a try to the Indian Open Category.

Ananth as for the NA cars running under FI category I don think it would be required as each participant gets his own timeslip to know where they stand hence if a NA car wins its category and clocks faster than the FI car it still moves on to the Indian Open.
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Old 25th December 2005, 23:29   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
The best way to handle the open class is to reduce the number of entries in it. You could possible look at the top 5 cars from each cc category (FI + NA) and all other indian cars that are directly in the indian open category itself. That way if any NA car is able to take down the FI cars it stands a fair chance for a try to the Indian Open Category.

Ananth as for the NA cars running under FI category I don think it would be required as each participant gets his own timeslip to know where they stand hence if a NA car wins its category and clocks faster than the FI car it still moves on to the Indian Open.
i think thats an excellent solution to a rather complex question..well done psycho ..now will someone pls bring this to the notice of the authorities ???

PS : ananth,deftones and all the members i would appreciate if u guys voted in the poll section also apart from putting across ur views via posts..

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 25th December 2005 at 23:33.
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Old 26th December 2005, 01:12   #80
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When a boost gauge is attached to a naturally aspirated car, and throttle is wide open, vacum in the chamber is equated to atmospheric pressure which is at 14.7 psi.

When a shot of nos is delivered does the gauge indicate anythng above atmospheric pressure ? - NO.

Therefore how can anyone technically classify NOS as forced induction. Psycho, dude you drive a Tced car. Come on man.
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Old 26th December 2005, 02:02   #81
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Dude sideways... check the link below.. maybe this will clear things out eh mclaren/psycho
http://print.google.co.in/print?id=2...DV5L3mhO-JTseQ

copy paste this link on browser/ enter gmail username and password/and read..
if you dont have gmail account then PM me with your current email address and i will send you an invite to join gmail.. take care.. read carefully.. maybe this will clear things out with sideways..sometimes searching the web helps.. no offence but thats the reason google was launched and today known as the best source of information.

Last edited by Godfather : 26th December 2005 at 02:06.
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Old 26th December 2005, 02:38   #82
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Thanx for the article GF. But I'll just stick with my opinion. I would still not consider a chemical process as a method of forced induction. It might be but not in the true sense.
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Old 26th December 2005, 02:57   #83
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Therefore how can anyone technically classify NOS as forced induction. Psycho, dude you drive a Tced car. Come on man.[/quote]

Dude i have provided only the clarification its up to you what you think.. but its proven now that NOS is forced induction as per the book [SIZE=3]Honda/Acura Engine Performance
[/SIZE]by Mike Kojima


Psycho/mclaren.. let me know what you think.. i think the link i provided before has proven this that NOS is a way of chemical forced induction compared to mechanical way..

Last edited by Godfather : 26th December 2005 at 02:59.
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Old 26th December 2005, 03:04   #84
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I stand by what i said - The engine will go from vacum to atmospheric pressure, therefore boost gauge will read " 0 ". Even when Nos is fired Boost gauge will still indicate "0" and no more. therefore no forced indcution.
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Old 26th December 2005, 03:24   #85
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I agree with Sideways. The chemical reaction releases oxygen molecules into the fuel line. At comparison, the amount of air pumped in using a turbo/supercharger is very much humongous compared to NOS.
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Old 26th December 2005, 03:33   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways
I stand by what i said - The engine will go from vacum to atmospheric pressure, therefore boost gauge will read " 0 ". Even when Nos is fired Boost gauge will still indicate "0" and no more. therefore no forced indcution.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AutoMeter Vac/Boost Gauge 30In/Hg-30
If your vehicle Supercharged or Turbocharged
This gauge is a must for several reasons.
First and foremost is so you can see just how much boost
you're making at maximum RPMs. This is also another great tool
when used with the fuel pressure gauge. Correct fuel pressure at
maximum boost equals maximum safe horsepower.

AutoMeter Nitrous Pressure Gauge
This gauge is the prefect tool for reading nitrous pressure before
and during usage. Once you have this tool installed, the guesswork is
over. You will easily learn the optimum pressure at which your nitrous
system works best.
http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/aut...sportcomp.html
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Old 26th December 2005, 03:53   #87
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My friend,

nitrous gauge only indicates pressure of Nos being let in from the bottle before and during usage. i am talking about indication on the boost gauge which is connecteed to the plenum chamber.
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Old 26th December 2005, 10:35   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways
I stand by what i said - The engine will go from vacum to atmospheric pressure, therefore boost gauge will read " 0 ". Even when Nos is fired Boost gauge will still indicate "0" and no more. therefore no forced indcution.
Nice point there Sideways, Understand when Nitrous is fired into the plenum there is no increase in the plenum pressure hence it still shows the normal plenum reading, this is because of how nitrous works.

Nitrous Oxide when introduced to the plenum does nothing, however the moment it is introduced to the cylinder and the temeprature increases to 300 deg Nitrous oxide break up into the individual components ie Nitrogen and Oxygen, also nitrous oxide rapidly expands as the temparature increases ( Note Nitrous oxide when introduced into the plenum also drops the intake temperatues drastically due to it evaporating ) This helps in multiple ways namely:
1) Higher clinder pressure,
2) Increased Oxygen supply way faster than what a turbo / superchrger on and engine below 2 litres can provide as it is like boosting up to full boost in a split second
3) Dropping air temp also leads to more denser air being introduced into the cylinders (however this works mainly with single nozzle systems)

Please realise Nitrous oxide is a Oxidant and potent one at that, it is used side by side to pure oxygen, hydrogen peroxide etc with propellants in rocket engines. Nitrous oxide is the only propellant typically used in the automobile world in exception to nitromethane for its stability before it is introduced into the cylinder and its tendency to break up at slightly higher temparatures hence making it safer to use in comparision to Oxygen.

As an oxidant you can actually drive your car on a NOS + Fuel shot without any external air being available to the engine ( this would be only if you can get your rpm above 4500 at WOT ), hence NOS being a forced induction method remains true.
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Old 26th December 2005, 13:16   #89
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O2................................Boost.......Incr ease O2..........End Amount of O2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atmos..............23%........................1.00 ....................23.00%
Turbo...............23%..........8............1.84 ....................42.26%
Supercharger.....23%..........8............1.84... .................42.26%
NOS.................36%........................1.0 0....................36.00%

Assumptions Made
1) At 8 PSI of boost oxygen levels increase by 14.7/8
2) Assuming expanded NOS fills in the entire cylinder as this will vary depending on NOS Shot and flow rates
3) Assuming that it is a 50 shot of nitrous that is required to fill the combustion chamber
4) NOS contains 36% of O2 as compared to normal atmosphreic air hence the 1.00 multiplier

Additionally this would mean that the nitrous is producing more power than a naturally aspirated car however in real life the flow rates vary hence roughly a 50 shot of NOS can equate close to about 6 PSI on a turbo / supercharged setup.

We can hence understand that direct comparision betweeen a X shot and y pounds boost cannot be done directly as no 2 turbos behave the same and they can supply different amounts air at the same boost. The levels of airflow / boost / altitude and oxygen availability that define the flow of air/ fuel and how much power can be produced.

However the calculations show what are the effects of NOS on a car and hence its classification as forced induction.

Last edited by Psycho : 26th December 2005 at 13:31.
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Old 26th December 2005, 13:53   #90
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If nothing else, atleast this thread has made you FINALLY cross 400 posts.
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