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Old 31st May 2011, 18:41   #61
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

I am sorry if this is increasingly becoming off topic, but I can't help commenting.

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well If you know US pumped in some 30 billion $ in West Germany under marshal plan post war
The US did not pump in $30 billion in West Germany, it received approximately $1.5 billion. The Marshal plan was for general European recovery and not for Germany alone, the biggest beneficiaries were UK and France which received much more money.

Immediately after the war, the US did try to squeeze Germany (as I said earlier) and the Marshal plan was implemented due to several factors - economics and the threat from communism two of them. See following quote from Wikipedia:

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During the first three years of occupation of Germany the UK and US vigorously pursued an industrial disarmament program in Germany, partly by removal of equipment but mainly through an import embargo on raw materials and deliberate economic neglect. As a consequence of the industrial disarmament of Germany, whose economy by mid-1947 was deteriorating rapidly, the economic stagnation of Europe became inevitable. By shutting down the German industry the Allies disrupted the intra-European trade, a trade that was vital for European recovery, and they thereby delayed the European economic recovery.
So coming back to my main point - we have a lot of good things to learn from countries like Japan and Germany, which managed to achieve so much in such a short period of time despite being reduced to ashes during WW2.
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Old 1st June 2011, 18:14   #62
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

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A classic that I have heard about the biggest INDIAN SETH, Mr. Mukesh Ambani, is that when attending office meetings & discussing business deals, he can sit at a stretch of 8 hours easily without having food or taking breaks for even nature calls (impossible... but supposedly true). Not to forget the amount of homework that he, & his team ought to have done for the meeting/ deal.
Actually it is humanly possible. That's why he is seth!

But I am not doing this for the hourly salary I get. Heck, I will not do it even for the hourly salary Seth gets .
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Old 2nd June 2011, 11:11   #63
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
Actually it is humanly possible. That's why he is seth!

But I am not doing this for the hourly salary I get. Heck, I will not do it even for the hourly salary Seth gets .
Agreed, we all are driven by our passion... so what if it actually is making money in Ambani's case.

Anyway, there is an update, JLR execs attended a meeting with Ratan Tata, in London, on 30th May despite the day being a bank holiday. Guess he could get the tortoises moving because of the comments.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 11:16   #64
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

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Anyway, there is an update, JLR execs attended a meeting with Ratan Tata, in London, on 30th May despite the day being a bank holiday. Guess he could get the tortoises moving because of the comments.
So why did he schedule a meeting on a holiday?

Temporarily people will be ready to get abused.
Then the really good people will quit because the really good people can get jobs easily.

In a bad economy, the mediocre people will not be able to get jobs so they will be left behind. Tata can have
lots of meetings in the evenings & holidays with them.

Last edited by carboy : 2nd June 2011 at 11:18.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 11:44   #65
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

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So why did he schedule a meeting on a holiday?

Temporarily people will be ready to get abused.
Then the really good people will quit because the really good people can get jobs easily.

If these people were rally good/ valuable, they could have been easily been absorbed by Ford, or they could have moved to much bigger auto majors. Let me assure that these are those mediocre people because of which even Ford could not revive JLR. It is only after Tata took over & the shrewd business acumen of the Tata execs resulted in China Market discovered, 2.2L Inline 4 Cylinder engine passed to on to JLR, fresh funds infused in these companies, new cheaper production lines identified, etc, which has ensured the revival of this company.

In a bad economy, the mediocre people will not be able to get jobs so they will be left behind. Tata can have
lots of meetings in the evenings & holidays with them.
@carboy, these are the people (senior executives) who make others work overtime & on holidays, & they are actually resting in the arms of loved ones at the very same time. So guess they should work on bank holidays (does a bank holiday equate to national holiday in India). Plus, in any case, these guys will claim fat compensation for working on that day.

IMO, what Tata has been able to achieve is avoid wasting of his valuable days, while on UK visit, which he can devote to some other group company say Corus or a new acquisition (Tata's time anyhow much more important than saving few GB£ paid to these people).

Last edited by CARDEEP : 2nd June 2011 at 11:51.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 12:32   #66
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

Guys you need to check in person how Koreans work to see what is humanly possible I have seen people leaving office at 2:30 AM and then back to office at 8:00 AM dot continuously for days.

The education system is such that highscool students leave home at around 6:00 AM and retire to bed at 11:00 PM in night and schedule includes.
Normal studies , Tai-kwn-do , sports , English classes ( Costing about 3-4 K US$ per quarter) , Extra coaching classes , Music classes and blah blah.

I uses to remember pink floyd song "I don't need no education .." whenever I see students there . And that makes them perfect worker when they grow up

Mandermax : I am not arguing about the number of billions but Germany , Japan and South Korea became industrialized due to free market access and pumping in few billions each by western block at the peak of cold war is undisputed fact.

I fully agree that this alone is not a sufficient condition for development and human capital and will is most important. What can be better example then Egypt which was also one of the big beneficiaries of Cold war and alliance to west but is nowhere in league of Germany , Japan or Korea in same time frame. Mainly due to human resource and cultural aspects.

Last edited by amitk26 : 2nd June 2011 at 12:36.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 12:46   #67
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
@carboy, these are the people (senior executives) who make others work overtime & on holidays, & they are actually resting in the arms of loved ones at the very same time. So guess they should work on bank holidays (does a bank holiday equate to national holiday in India). Plus, in any case, these guys will claim fat compensation for working on that day.

IMO, what Tata has been able to achieve is avoid wasting of his valuable days, while on UK visit, which he can devote to some other group company say Corus or a new acquisition (Tata's time anyhow much more important than saving few GB£ paid to these people).
Senior Executives may not work bank holidays, but the ones that do (shop floor etc), usually get 1.5 times their hourly salary, plus the holiday on another day.

I don't get paid compensation for overtime or for holidays worked, so I don't work them. Also I will never work weekend!! But I will do overtime when needed. (Bank Holidays are the same as National Holidays)

Is also very easy to say people will get absorbed by other companies, but I don't think you realise how competitive the employment market is here, especially at a time when TATA seems to be the only company that is hiring in a big way at the moment.

Also what makes you think Ford in the UK is any bigger than JLR?

I would also like to point out, that the success of JLR at the moment is not purely down to TATA!! The cycle of Design to Production for a vehicle is approximately 4-5yrs and I can assure you that JLR were working on almost all of the vehicle platform that are currently successful before the buyout!

Last edited by Samir Taheer : 2nd June 2011 at 13:01.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 14:55   #68
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

Having spent a total of five years in the UK (three as a student, and two in employment) I think I am in a position to comment. I was in academics so things may be a bit biased.

UK has a strong 9:00 to 5:00 culture and weekends are for the family, unlike the US and our culture where 20 hour (7 days a week) are not unknown. So I can imagine his discomfiture.

Being US educated and used to the Indian work executives who will jump at the drop of a pin, I can see what he was stating. ethic. However, of these 8:00 hours days at least seven are solid work (two 15 minute tea breaks and half hour for lunch). The belief is that physically you cannot sustain 15+ hours a day indefinitely at peak efficiency, and the work just expands to fill the time available.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 17:10   #69
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Default Re: Tata comments on British Work Ethics ! But what of Work-Life balance ?

Many, many years ago, a boss said to me, "Why don't you get all your work done in the mornings, then you can relax in the afternoon, like I do!". Somehow, he never realised that I relaxed in the mornings!
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Old 27th March 2013, 00:47   #70
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Originally Posted by lsp View Post
I am not aware of the BPO industry but in IT industry Ive witnesses projects which are supposed to be done in 100 person months, being quoted for less to make the bids competitive. And who becomes the scape goat - the employee.

Boss not only in IT industry this bug has caught up with EPC companies too. I am working in an MNC engineering consultancy and I see projects supposed to done in one year crammed into 6-7 months.
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