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Old 6th May 2006, 08:38   #1
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Default Sad: Legendary manufacturers in crisis!

DEar Bhpians,

This has become an era of survival of the fittest . Oldies like Jaguar , Saab , Ford , Mistubishi are showing very poor rate of growth . Infact they made a mistake long back they tried to cater to mass market but failed in their attempts to pull in vloume . Toyota a master in this business is not only biggest manufacturing company but also a company having massive cash reserves . They can afford one or two flops without much of a trouble . Hyundai too is up on this game no wonder the kind of money they are pumping in engine development and designing their cars in the leasing design houses in europe. Even lamborghini , I mean Audi has learned to make cash with hugely popular Gallardo , I dont mean to compare Gallard with a Mass production car but compared to Miura , Countach , Diablo ....say even Murcilego Gallardo has sold a lot . I feel like what hyundai is doing one should have a number pulling car in their line up to make sure they stay ahaead in the game . And not to be like GM buying out cash stricken companies thinking on reviving it .....Any way lets all pray that atleast icons stay that way . (not taking into account the ownership of an companies)........................................ .......................
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Old 6th May 2006, 08:40   #2
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Hyundai's latest 1593 cc , 110 Bhp Crdi is a testimony for a low cost highly efficient mass production engine.
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Old 6th May 2006, 09:16   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbhp
Hyundai's latest 1593 cc , 110 Bhp Crdi is a testimony for a low cost highly efficient mass production engine.

From what i read somewhere the engine is all new and has the same tech as the more expensive benz, audi ,bmw etc...

Hyundai is really doing a commendable job by giving the latest tech to the lower consumers. If you recollect they were the first mass producer (Benz is not a mass producer atleat in india) to introduce crdi..

And then there is our great manufacturer maruti who is still on the top (WHY??) though it sells outdated cars (except swift) with old engines.But they finally have woken up to give us new diesel engines in their OOOOLD cars.
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Old 6th May 2006, 11:52   #4
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There are two types of cars built in this world.

1. Which is built for a purpose. The purpose of transporting a family from one place to another in the best, cheapest and most comfortable way. Mass manufacturers have catered to this market and learnt well.

2. Which are built to fulfill a dream. These cars are made to fulfill a motive. Every car is made with a motice to fulfill a dream. These cars are also catered to the mass market but dont pull in volumes.

WHile those who serve purpose 1 think from the mind, they do well in Business. But those who serve purpose 2 think from the heart. They do well in their personal life.

My Inclination towards Brands like Mitsubishi and Fiat is for the same reason.

Mitsubishi has stayed in operations after the worst case scenarios in the recent years. After so many years finally they have reutrned a operating profit. Thats the strength from a company that thinks from the heart. They made a mistake but learnt from it.

Fiat India started with a bang. Palio1.6 gtx was said to be a wrong product in the Indian FUEL Efficient market. The days with long waiting periods for palio didnt last long. But the 1.6 is still in the market and still the hottest hatch. Years after buying stalwarts and high maintainence brands like Ferrari, Alfa Romeo and Maserati Fiat has turned profitable.

Ferrucio Lamborghini dreamt that his Lamborghini will better EnzO Ferrari's King of performance SUpercar. After years the brand achieved that. Even in Laptop market today lamborghini has bettered Ferrari.

Nissan though 2nd biggest manufacturer from Japan is still not as profitable as a Honda. Their skyline and 350z have been Engineering marvels. Carlos Ghosn has taught the company on how to never give up hope.


but 99% of the people always think from the mind which is very logical in todays world. Hence toyota and Honda make bucks from the 99% of the populace while the rest capture the hearts of the remaining 1% fulfilling their dreams before going down, Being sold of or Changing their purpose of existence.


Last edited by devarshi84 : 6th May 2006 at 11:53.
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Old 6th May 2006, 12:47   #5
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lets just say ... india is a poor country , and the proportion of income which goes into buying a car and maintaning it is much ,much more in india than in europe or the states. the overall cost owning an outdated maruti is cheaper that running much superior cars its competitors produce.

at the end of the day with fuel prices soaring , the aam admi in india will gladly go for the car 'cheapest' in the long run ... not quality or safety

cars like the maruti omni testify to that fact.
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Old 6th May 2006, 12:49   #6
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I thought, FIAT made a profit beacuse of the huge money they sqeezed out of GM in a law suite.
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Old 6th May 2006, 16:41   #7
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Nissan was in the verge Bankruptcy , and what Carlos Ghosn did was something no one has ever achieved including Lee Icocca. Honda may be making bucks but not even half of that of Toyota simple reason in volume game they are no where near Toyota .
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Old 6th May 2006, 16:45   #8
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And one more thing , Ferrucio created a superacar but it was no where near Ferrari . Audi resructed the mark back to its feet or else by now Lamborghini would have been bankrupt. Lamborghinin are plagued with quality issues , but after the merger with Audi things really took a turn for good . Just review interiors of a Diablo and a Mucilego , you will notice the difference . And that LP 640 ..... What a car .... It looks AWESOME !
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Old 6th May 2006, 20:21   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbhp
And one more thing , Ferrucio created a superacar but it was no where near Ferrari . Audi resructed the mark back to its feet or else by now Lamborghini would have been bankrupt. Lamborghinin are plagued with quality issues , but after the merger with Audi things really took a turn for good . Just review interiors of a Diablo and a Mucilego , you will notice the difference . And that LP 640 ..... What a car .... It looks AWESOME !
Lamborghini is as much a part of audi/VW as ferrari is of Fiat.
even ferrari would have been nowhere if Fiat had not been there.
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Old 6th May 2006, 20:31   #10
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Everyone has their time. If a manufacturer's philosophy and products do not evolve with the times, or its philosophy becomes redundant with the changin times, then either change the philosophy and go against tradition, or let the company die.

Porsche understood, and they began a parallel series of cars to the 911 starting with the 914 going onto 924, 944, 968, Boxster, Cayenne and so on. And it worked for them. Even though they made purists fume, they retained the traditional part of the product line for the purists and made profits to develop them further.

Saab is basically struggling these days. It caters only to those who want to be seen as diffrent form the normal German exec brigade.

But I must mention that Lamborghini was really saved by the Malaysian company who bought it form Chrysler and stabilized it, rather than the sale to Audi thereon.

As I have said, many great brands have dissapeared over the lifetime of the automobile (Horch, Austin, Minerva, etc etc). When it is time to go, one must go, instead of making their reputation bad and spoiling an illustrous history.

Jaguar is very much back into profit making, if the sales of the new XK are anything to go by. But that remaisn the only bright spot in their sales chart, as their other products slip into a deeper and deeper mire.....

Last edited by islero : 6th May 2006 at 20:33.
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Old 7th May 2006, 09:24   #11
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Don't forget GM guys. It's having the worst time in its life. It has shut down numerous plants in US and Canada and is downsizing like crazy. People are perdicting that it'll go bankrupt in 5 years. Amongst the big 3 only Chrysler seems to be in a strong financial position at present.
Also Peugeot shut down its last manufacturing plant in the UK (which is one of its biggest markets) in March 2006. It is also having a bad time.
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Old 7th May 2006, 19:39   #12
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Gm is out of profit game long back . It simply cannot match the efficiency of Asians . I mean Toyota and Hyundai has shown what utilising modern technologies in a mass production car can bring about .... Continuous product development to cater to every customer seems to be wroking well here
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Old 7th May 2006, 21:54   #13
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[quote=maxbhp]DEar Bhpians,

This has become an era of survival of the fittest . Oldies like Jaguar , Saab , Ford , Mistubishi are showing very poor rate of growth . QUOTE]

People want a car which is a good product to have backed by a good company
ie Product, Brand, Service ...also cost

Jaguar: Two mistakes mades - clothing fords/ lincolns in leather and chrome and making the current XJ (which is a really good car) look like the old one. They have very good service now apparently

Saab - reclothed Vectra's - totally departed from traditional brand values.

Ford - Ford Europe make great cars but people do not want to be seen in mainstream cars anymore

Mitsubishi - again good cars but would you want to be asscoiated with a company going down due to various scandals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC
I thought, FIAT made a profit beacuse of the huge money they sqeezed out of GM in a law suite.
They did but they are also making cars that people want - Panda and Grande Punto

Quote:
Originally Posted by islero
But I must mention that Lamborghini was really saved by the Malaysian company who bought it form Chrysler and stabilized it, rather than the sale to Audi thereon.
.....
Correction - Indonesian - Tommy Suharto
Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri
Don't forget GM guys. It's having the worst time in its life. It has shut down numerous plants in US and Canada and is downsizing like crazy. People are perdicting that it'll go bankrupt in 5 years. Amongst the big 3 only Chrysler seems to be in a strong financial position at present.
Also Peugeot shut down its last manufacturing plant in the UK (which is one of its biggest markets) in March 2006. It is also having a bad time.
GM is a healthcare provider which makes cars on the side. Peugeot cannot make small cars to cost, UK was easiest to shut down as the french are very militant. They are building new plants in Eastern Europe

Last edited by ajmat : 7th May 2006 at 22:01.
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Old 7th May 2006, 22:20   #14
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I must mention one more thing, though: Even though journalists rave about the latest Fords, Skodas, and the like, the truth is that they, like anyone else, will pay a premium and go for the German manufacturers products simply because of the brand cachet.

And the residuals, especially in a country like Britian, can be brutal to a car that is not in demand, or which is from a company that does not have brand value. Hence, buyers decide to be careful and take the beaten path once again.

It is because of this that deserving cars have not taken off liek they should have.

I completley agree about Jaguar, Ajmat.

But there was a problem, actually. Ian Callum's first design for Jaguar only debuted 4 or so years after he joined, because the design for the XJ, X-type had been set by the previous designer (I forget his name, his untimely death prompted a replacement).
Jaguar have only now vowed to start a design revolution, maybe a little too late because the brand might have strated to lose its magic aldready. It is a tragedy.
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Old 7th May 2006, 22:58   #15
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As history and common sense would tell us, no company manufacturing Supercars cannot exist on its own......tell me one Supercar manufacturer who stands on its own..(PORSCHE, mayb..) . U have certain petrolheads who, in a remote italian village, handcraft dream machines with passion and care,but who is gonna finance it?? thats why today all supercar manufacturers are owned by a mass producer..like ferrari by fiat, lambo by audi, jag n aston martin by ford....
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