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Old 11th February 2013, 22:48   #16
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
T
We should do a similar test on Indian SUVs. I'm dead certain that the Fortuner, Scorpio & Safari would roll over easily, and am equally confident about the XUV500, Duster and other monocoque SUVs passing it with flying colours.
Why not start the trend?

It would be unfair to compare monocoque with ladder on frames. They both are built for different purpose/usage.

The Pajero SFX, despite not having Internal day/night mirror () shall fare better than today's SUV's.
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Old 11th February 2013, 23:28   #17
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

Reading GTO's comments speculating that monocoque SUVs like the Duster would clear this test, made me recall something I'd seen on autoevolution dot com some time back.

Googling led me to this ...

http://www.dragtimes.com/video-viewe...flxuG8&feature

The Duster's peformance starts from 01:05 into the video.

Afaik, the Duster sold in India does not come with ESC.

A little more googling leads me to understand that the moose / elk test also has another more technical name ... it's called the ISO double lane change test.

A good description of this test is called out here http://www.sa.gov.au/upload/franchis...Procedures.pdf

It would be very useful if a respectable automobile magazine conducted this test on all Indian cars, at a safe controlled location, with observers from a national body like ARAI or NCAT.

Cheers,

FourWheelDrift

Last edited by FourWheelDrift : 11th February 2013 at 23:29.
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Old 12th February 2013, 01:18   #18
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

I just sat in a Jeep grand cherokee at the custom designed off road course at the Chicago auto show. The kind of abuse and stuff the JGC can take for being not a body on frame truck (it is and has always been a crossover), is amazing. The course was being handled by Jeep Wrangler (proper off road capable vehicle) and JGC. While the Wrangler was truly amazing on the course, the JGC did an admirable job too.
So while you get a lot more off road prowess with that, you do loose high speed manouverability and stability for this kind of a vehicle. Guess you have to live with that.
I wonder how a Lexus RX would handle this moose test.
Here is a video of the JGC off road course -
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Old 12th February 2013, 01:53   #19
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

At a time when the crash norms are still a few years away, asking for an Elks test as a mandatory norm from the regulatory bodies will be expecting too much from them. And to top it, I doubt if it is a mandatory norm in any part of the world (including US), I may be wrong though. I am of the opinion, that tests like these must be made mandatory

On a lighter note, I was thinking what would be an apt name for this test if it is adapted as a norm in India? I came up with "Morons Test" , considering the likelihood of a moron jumping in the way of an approaching car. In India, a cow, goat etc. would have a lesser probability when compared to this category.

Spike
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Old 12th February 2013, 03:36   #20
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
On a lighter note, I was thinking what would be an apt name for this test if it is adapted as a norm in India? I came up with "Morons Test" , considering the likelihood of a moron jumping in the way of an approaching car. In India, a cow, goat etc. would have a lesser probability when compared to this category.

Spike
Hehe. Its also called Moose Test. For India, they can just call this Moo Test.

Speaking of crash tests, the IIHS has introduced offset collision test to their suite of ratings
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/frontal_test_info.html

Camry and Prius didnt do too well in this though
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs...9-8cb167f9f400
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Old 12th February 2013, 06:15   #21
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

I saw this video just before we bought our 2012 Grand cherokee. Jeep responded by saying that the testers overloaded the vehicle. Any way, WK2 Grand cherokee sits high with a lot of ground clearance. It was not built to be agile and fast. I just drove 1100 miles across 3 states this weekend and part of the route was hit by snow from storm nemo on saturday. I felt resonably comfortable on tight curves of pennsylvania mountains. Ours got QT1 4x4 so I can not comment about handling of RWD Grand cherokee.
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Old 12th February 2013, 06:43   #22
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

The importance of passing an "Elk" or "Moose" test can only be appreciated by someone who has been in that situation.

For those who have done some late night driving in Northern Canada, Scandinavia, etc would know the reason behind the double lane change.

Moose and elk travel in groups and their eyes dont shine like other animals. When you see one on the road and swerve, you will invariably see another one and will have to correct yourself. Have personally experienced this going 120kmph late night on an icy road along the Alberta - BC border.

And if you think hitting a moose is a better alternative, I suggest you take a look at a live moose before deciding that. I have seen the radiator cracked on a Peterbilt truck which hit a moose on the highway. And this was a truck with a massive cow guard bumper. Not a good idea to hit a moose.

These tests are important for the safety of motorists where these conditions exist and regulatory agencies that have value for human life conduct these tests so that informed consumers can make good decisions on their purchase.

I fail to understand the purpose of the test in India where neither the motorist nor the agencies have any value for human life, and if the test is conducted, it will be purely for entertainment value to see which one flips the best.

Seriously, elk test in India? What are you guys smoking?

Cheers.
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Old 12th February 2013, 09:07   #23
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

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I fail to understand the purpose of the test in India where neither the motorist nor the agencies have any value for human life, and if the test is conducted, it will be purely for entertainment value to see which one flips the best.

Seriously, elk test in India? What are you guys smoking?

Cheers.
The elk test can just be a test of maneuverability and stability. I guess it doesn't really qualify as a necessary test in India, but then no harm in having such a test and rate. It would just indicate your cars performance on the test.
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Old 12th February 2013, 10:29   #24
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

The Cherokee literally bobbles like a bobble head around the 2:00 minute mark!
Love how effortlessly the VW passes this test - as if it's just negotiating a lonesome pothole or something. Classic.
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Old 12th February 2013, 14:06   #25
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

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I dont know what was the moto of this test. But its crazy to do this in any SUV.
If a pedestrian, cyclist or cow suddenly comes in your way (frequent occurrence in India by the way), you'll have to execute the same (or sharper) manouveur in your high-riding SUV. The no.1 concern for any SUV driver should be rollover at highway speeds.
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Old 12th February 2013, 14:19   #26
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

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If a pedestrian, cyclist or cow suddenly comes in your way (frequent occurrence in India by the way), you'll have to execute the same (or sharper) manouveur in your high-riding SUV. The no.1 concern for any SUV driver should be rollover at highway speeds.
Yes, but somehow in the video i can see that while driving the jeep he is not even braking and jerking the steering like anything. Also later on it was found out that they had intentionally overloaded the vehicle.

Taking into consideration Indian roads, all SUVs should have a ESP

SUV should never be driven like a sedan. Whenever i drive my safari i am very much alert and considering the non-sense handling capability i dont speed up to eternity the way i can do in my rock stable linea.
I dont even try misadventure in my vento.

I guess the volvos are way safer SUVs.
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Old 12th February 2013, 14:50   #27
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

This is a simulation of a panic induced reaction. SUV drivers may not be doing it in normal driving conditions, but the stability comes in question only during panic induced steering situation. When suddenly someone jumps in front of the car or a sudden obstacle props up which you missed to spot. In such situations the actions of majority of the drivers will be to turn the vehicle away in a jerky manner.

The important thing to observe is that the VW and the Volvo were driven at 69-70 Km/hr. Speeds that are not too high as per even Indian Highways. That perhaps does show the importance of a well sorted out handling. Speeds that are not considered really high may cause a badly sorted car to topple under panic induced swerving.

I would want to see how the Safaris, Scorpios, Xylos and Quantos do this test.
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Old 12th February 2013, 15:56   #28
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

The amount of steering input the driver gives on the JEEP is considerably higher compared to the VW and Volvo. The Volvo showed a bit of controlled drama, however the VW takes it unbelievably flat. It looked like the VW especially was doing much lower speeds! Higher speed, higher steering input can easily throw these tall SUVs off the road. Its not blown tires, the heavy steering input pushes the car too much on the sidewalls of the tires and let the tires come off the wheels to cause the airleak!

The journos are definitely after something else more than the elk test!
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Old 12th February 2013, 16:59   #29
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
The amount of steering input the driver gives on the JEEP is considerably higher compared to the VW and Volvo. The Volvo showed a bit of controlled drama, however the VW takes it unbelievably flat. It looked like the VW especially was doing much lower speeds! Higher speed, higher steering input can easily throw these tall SUVs off the road. Its not blown tires, the heavy steering input pushes the car too much on the sidewalls of the tires and let the tires come off the wheels to cause the airleak!

The journos are definitely after something else more than the elk test!
This is an illusion created due to the excess lateral movement of Jeep. I am sure all vehicles were driven almost at the same speed before the approach looking at the time taken to finish the stunt. Since the Jeep is rolling violently one gets the impression that the steering input given also is higher. However no internal shot of VW or Volvo is shown to substantiate this. The fact of the matter is VW and Volvo made it look much easier on your eyes to believe your senses.

Last edited by poloman : 12th February 2013 at 17:02.
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Old 12th February 2013, 17:31   #30
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Default Re: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee fails the 'Elk Test'!

Times between different vehicles, how do you do that!? I dont know, I cant do that since the cameras are placed to show the front view, the other view is from the rear and it gives no reference to how far the elks (cones in this case) are placed and the distance between them.

One important point can be the angle of the front wheels while taking the sudden turn. There is far less input on the VW, there is slightly more in the Volvo and lot more in the JEEP.

If the motive is to flip these tall SUVs, a good driver can always beat any electronics and make them look bad!

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
This is an illusion created due to the excess lateral movement of Jeep. I am sure all vehicles were driven almost at the same speed before the approach looking at the time taken to finish the stunt. Since the Jeep is rolling violently one gets the impression that the steering input given also is higher. However no internal shot of VW or Volvo is shown to substantiate this. The fact of the matter is VW and Volvo made it look much easier on your eyes to believe your senses.
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