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Old 24th June 2013, 00:20   #31
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Default Re: Are luxury car brands losing their exclusivity?

Very true @bdman, Shankar: Its all about brand packaging in our market. I do not see why I should pay that big a difference between Laura 1.8 TSI and an A4 1.8 TSI, similarly between a Jetta TDI and A4 TDI, these cars are more or less the same, for people like us they are just the same considering the price difference. But for that aam admi who has the money to buy an A4 he will buy that because he sees only the 4 rings on the grill and not like us who see that both the engines develop the same power, so why pay so much more? Moreover may be this very reason and even I believe that there is a huge profit margin for these premium brands (essentially the same car as a Laura or Jetta) that Audi is selling the A4 on a finance scheme of Rs. 6 lakhs down payment and Rs. 35 K EMI / month!
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Old 24th June 2013, 06:55   #32
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Default Re: Are luxury car brands losing their exclusivity?

Frankly, I would not be to worried about the engines since in most cases these are retuned or modified extensively. Examples

Jaguar Diesels - same engine used in FOrds, Peugeots and Citroen. However the engine has been modified extensively for refinement as well as more power

Porsche diesels and V6's - Logic says, merely transplant the Toureg drivetrains. In reality, Porsche have reworked the engines for more power

BMW Diesels - These were also used by GM in some Opels during the late 1990's

Alfa V6's - am not sure but the later versions were to be GM V6's modified with alfa designed cylinder head due to GM ownernship which was lated dissolved. Sacrilege!

As for the exclusive factor, the german trio are no longer exclusive at least in urban areas, I walk down the busiet road in Bangalore every evening, I will see at least 4 BMW's, 3 Audi's and 5 Mercs with an Evoque somewhere! Nothing is exclusive nowadays. An interesting fact is that in the UK, the largest selling brands are as follows:

Ford
Vauxhall
VW
Audi
BMW (without Mini)
Mercedes

This really show that exclusivitiy is no longer a selling point when every one aspires to a brand
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Old 24th June 2013, 06:58   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
Very true @bdman, Shankar: Its all about brand packaging in our market. I do not see why I should pay that big a difference between Laura 1.8 TSI and an A4 1.8 TSI, similarly between a Jetta TDI and A4 TDI, these cars are more or less the same, for people like us they are just the same considering the price difference. But for that aam admi who has the money to buy an A4 he will buy that because he sees only the 4 rings on the grill and not like us who see that both the engines develop the same power, so why pay so much more? Moreover may be this very reason and even I believe that there is a huge profit margin for these premium brands (essentially the same car as a Laura or Jetta) that Audi is selling the A4 on a finance scheme of Rs. 6 lakhs down payment and Rs. 35 K EMI / month!
Whenever I drive my Yeti and pass one of those bigger, more expensive Audi Q3's and Q5's, I feel pleased that my Yeti has all that those two vehicles offer and more, at less than half the price. However, I do like the extra space available in the Q3, which, to me, is the perfect size of mini SUV. All said and done however, I do certainly like and aspire to the Audi badge some day...until then I shall content myself by renting one of these marques for a short while, whenever I am able to make a holiday outside the country and thus satisfy my cravings using that route.
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Old 24th June 2013, 08:36   #34
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Default Re: Are luxury car brands losing their exclusivity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post
Very true @bdman, Shankar: Its all about brand packaging in our market. I do not see why I should pay that big a difference between Laura 1.8 TSI and an A4 1.8 TSI, similarly between a Jetta TDI and A4 TDI, these cars are more or less the same, for people like us they are just the same considering the price difference. But for that aam admi who has the money to buy an A4 he will buy that because he sees only the 4 rings on the grill and not like us who see that both the engines develop the same power, so why pay so much more? Moreover may be this very reason and even I believe that there is a huge profit margin for these premium brands (essentially the same car as a Laura or Jetta) that Audi is selling the A4 on a finance scheme of Rs. 6 lakhs down payment and Rs. 35 K EMI / month!
Very true. The lines are blurring between the brands, and with rise in purchase power the bigger brands have no option left other than to go mainstream. For e.g.; take the case of Audiís plan to launch Q3 sports as an immediate option to combat Merc A, 1-series etc. An informed buyer or someone who is not extremely brand conscious will think that the 4x4 Yeti elegance with better features will make sense and that too with a savings of around 5 lakhs. But in reality, the FWD Q3 Sports MT may actually eat into whatever small numbers the Yeti is enjoying now.

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
As for the exclusive factor, the german trio are no longer exclusive at least in urban areas, I walk down the busiet road in Bangalore every evening, I will see at least 4 BMW's, 3 Audi's and 5 Mercs with an Evoque somewhere! Nothing is exclusive nowadays. An interesting fact is that in the UK, the largest selling brands are as follows:

Ford
Vauxhall
VW
Audi
BMW (without Mini)
Mercedes

This really show that exclusivitiy is no longer a selling point when every one aspires to a brand
And another point is that the smaller brands are slowly climbing up in their pricing. So the sentiments change that if I have to pay so much, why not put in a bit more and get the so-called bigger brand.

Even though not a big market compared to the UK, here in Singapore the buyer preferences have turned around due to the high taxation. 3-4 years back, a Corolla/Elantra used to cost around SGD 45K, and a C-Class was available for around SGD 125K. Now with higher taxation, a Corolla cost around 120K (what used to be the price of a C 3-4 years back), and the C-Class/3-series will cost around 200-250K. So buyers donít feel its worthy to pay100K+ for a Japanese sedan, and prefer to pay a higher EMI and get a European car. For many years, the top players here used to be Toyota and Honda, followed by the likes of Nissan, Mazda etc. Now the top 10 stands like this (May 2013 figures). Probably the one of the few markets where a Bentley does better than a Honda
  1. BMW (414)
  2. Mercedes (292)
  3. Volkswagen (272)
  4. Toyota, incl Lexus (269)
  5. Audi (151)
  6. Volvo (101)
  7. Nissan (77)
  8. Peugeot (61)
  9. Hyundai (54)
  10. Bentley (52)
  11. Honda (50)
  12. Jaguar (48)
  13. Mazda (42)
  14. Land Rover (33)
  15. Porsche (32)
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Old 24th June 2013, 20:13   #35
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Default Re: Are luxury car brands losing their exclusivity?

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Indeed! Considering what Toyota has done with the GT86, I am looking forward to this one. Read somewhere that it could be based on the 6-series architecture.
Nope ! Its going to be based on the Z4 as per the reports.

Some reports suggest based on 6 series because they dont want it to overlap with the Z4 and for Toyota the GT 86 as it will be a notch above the two.

Have a look at the following thread for more info & updates;

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...-pipeline.html (Joint BMW & Toyota SportsCar in the Pipeline)


Last edited by karan561 : 24th June 2013 at 20:15.
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Old 24th June 2013, 20:55   #36
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Default Re: Are luxury car brands losing their exclusivity?

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Whenever I drive my Yeti and pass one of those bigger, more expensive Audi Q3's and Q5's, I feel pleased that my Yeti has all that those two vehicles offer and more, at less than half the price.

Maybe it works like that.

I don't think the Q3 And Q5 owners when they pass a Yeti would think anything like that. They probably wouldn't even know these cars share anything.

Anybody driving a Q3/Q5 is way to important to be bothered by little details like that i guess. No disrespect, but I just don't think it would even remotely have their interest.

So all this sharing is good, because those of us who go for the fancy luxury brands don't give a toss about them sharing bits and pieces with lesser brands. And the "lesser" brands (no disrespect) are happy because they think they're getting fancy luxury bits and pieces at half the price.

Seems to me everybody is happy!

Jeroen
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Old 24th June 2013, 21:42   #37
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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post

Maybe it works like that.

I don't think the Q3 And Q5 owners when they pass a Yeti would think anything like that. They probably wouldn't even know these cars share anything.

Anybody driving a Q3/Q5 is way to important to be bothered by little details like that i guess. No disrespect, but I just don't think it would even remotely have their interest.

So all this sharing is good, because those of us who go for the fancy luxury brands don't give a toss about them sharing bits and pieces with lesser brands. And the "lesser" brands (no disrespect) are happy because they think they're getting fancy luxury bits and pieces at half the price.

Seems to me everybody is happy!

Jeroen
Yes. My Haldex 4WD system, the same 2 litre TDI CR engine and a number of other fiddlybits are the same as those in the Audi Q3 and Q5. I know that I am more than probably, beneath the notice of most of the fellows driving those far more expensive cars but I really feel good at Skoda's pricing which has enabled a regular run of the mill sort of bloke like me to own and enjoy one of these lovely vehicles!
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Old 25th June 2013, 12:34   #38
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Default Re: Are luxury car brands losing their exclusivity?

I absolutely agree the luxury brands, at least the German ones, aren't exclusive any more.

I remember 10 years ago seeing a Mercedes was rare and a BMW or Audi, which If I remember correctly had not launched officially and hence had to be imported, were extremely rare. I remember how excited I got seeing those twin headlights of a BMW, it wasn't that often. Today however there are BMWs littered all over the place. Audi becoming more common by the day and a Merc sighting just doesn't excite.

I think this is to be expected with the rise of Income, local setup of factories hence reduction of price & not to mention release of joke luxury cars such as the X1 at incredibly low prices which make the badge even more common. Expect to see a lot more of these cars around.

The way I see it the Exclusivity that used to be defined by Germans a decade ago today can only be claimed by super-luxury marques such as Bentleys or a Roller.
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Old 25th June 2013, 13:54   #39
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Default Re: Are luxury car brands losing their exclusivity?

Yep the exclusivity is no longer there in terms of the Brands Specifically. But even today a GL or a Q7 or an X5 or a M or AMG or S Class or 7 Series or A8 Sub Tag is exclusive. While one can still buy pre owned last gen vehicles of the upper most segment at 15% the original price the maintenance of the same remains so high that it is not really the done thing. The German Brands Entry 1 series, A series, X1, etc have made the entry point similar to going in for an executive vehicle like the Accord of the Superb and yet simpler but for many of the buyers this one may be the second or third Lux brand in the garage.
Yes the entry barrier is quite low relatively now.
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Old 25th June 2013, 18:31   #40
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Aston Martin, Ford Extend Engine Agreement

source: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...agreement.html
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