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Old 8th October 2013, 12:35   #136
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Lien did just that. He ended the lives of a child, a father, a mother, a wife by not backing off & instead driving over a bunch of people and leaving them crippled while the "educated & civilised" people laud lien.


But many "educated" people think the bikers a.k.a. scum of society got what they deserved... in a manner what "educated" people do not dish out. That too twice over.
You do realize that the injured biker could've avoided the entire mess by obeying the law and not riding the bike at all that day? Where was his 'responsibility' towards his family when he intentionally chose to ride a bike illegally and indulge in dangerous behavior, thereby knowingly putting his family's interests at risk?

When one doesn't care for his own well-being and by extension his family's, it's a stretch to expect another man (whom you're intimidating and assaulting on a public road) to care for your well-being above his own, esp. when you aren't showing any care for his safety in return. If I endanger myself, the consequences are MY responsibility. If I care for my family and its well-being, it's MY foremost responsibility to ensure I get home everyday in one piece, not everybody else's.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 8th October 2013 at 12:39.
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Old 8th October 2013, 12:41   #137
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Lien did just that. He ended the lives of a child, a father, a mother, a wife by not backing off & instead driving over a bunch of people and leaving them crippled while the "educated & civilised" people laud lien.


But many "educated" people think the bikers a.k.a. scum of society got what they deserved... in a manner what "educated" people do not dish out. That too twice over.
So what should Lien have done when he is surrounded by a very hostile group of people?

What would you do?
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Old 8th October 2013, 12:48   #138
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Lien did just that. He ended the lives of a child, a father, a mother, a wife by not backing off & instead driving over a bunch of people and leaving them crippled while the "educated & civilised" people laud lien.
Well, Lien did end lives of "A" Child, "A" Father, "A" Mother, "A" Wife, by driving over Mieses. That is 4 lives in total. Ohh, wait, those people did not die. Everyone is still alive.

What if Mieses was not run over, and he continued his antiques ? How many lives would have been lost ? Any count ? Less than 4 ? I see 3 lives (Lien, His Wife and Child) being lost if Mieses was not run over. Ohh, forgot to add the lives of other motorists or pedestrians on the road. Sorry, I lost count of how many lives would have ended if Mieses was fit and still riding a bike now.

How many lives were lost when Mieses sold drugs, cocaine to people, possessed illegal firearm, destructed property in the past ?

There is a saying - What we Sow, is what we Reap. Period.

No sympathies for Mieses, come whatever.

Last edited by bblost : 8th October 2013 at 14:37. Reason: Please maintain a civil tone. Personal attacks are not appreciated.
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:33   #139
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Lien did just that. He ended the lives of a child, a father, a mother, a wife by not backing off & instead driving over a bunch of people and leaving them crippled while the "educated & civilised" people laud lien.


But many "educated" people think the bikers a.k.a. scum of society got what they deserved... in a manner what "educated" people do not dish out. That too twice over.
Let me get this right. So the educated lot and a few on this forum are against bikers in general and consider them a scum of society? I think your sentiments with regards to how we perceive bikers is flawed. Also laws aren't shaped by sentiments but by evidence and intentions. No court of law will punish a man because he's a biker but by his actions.

Also if Lien was a biker and there was an SUV group around him you probably would have seen the same sentiments expressed by team bhp members.

In this case he is a scum of society. With a resume of 6 pages of criminal records I really doubt if your 'reasoning' and 'backing off' suggestions would have worked.

Leave all the above aside and explain to me how one dares to try to break the rear window where a 2 year old toddler is seated? If you can't call grown up men attacking a 2 year child scums, I really wonder where you can appropriately use that term.
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:33   #140
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
But many "educated" people think the bikers a.k.a. scum of society got what they deserved... in a manner what "educated" people do not dish out. That too twice over.
Well if you behave like the scum of the society you will be treated like one. Once the Range Rover had bumped the bike, the other guys could have parked at the side, called 911 and waited for the cops to arrive and sort out the issue. After all they are in a truly mature, developed democracy not a wanna be democracy but in reality a banana republic like India.
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:37   #141
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

I am a biker and have many times seen an anti-biker stance by many team-bhpians. The typical car-motorcycle divide.
But, in this case if I was in Lien's place, I would have done the same thing when faced with such an hostile mob. How can I wait it out for the police to arrive when I am surrounded by an unruly mob which, as has now been seen by their track records, were mostly criminals. Specially when my wife and kid are in the car. Unthinkable!
Lets take the "calmly sit and wait it out" argument to the bikers. Maybe they should have calmly noted down his license plates and called him in to the cops.
Duh!
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:38   #142
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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So what should Lien have done when he is surrounded by a very hostile group of people?

What would you do?
Hostile group of people surrounding me wouldn't make me behave like a murderer especially when I'm out numbered 30:1. All the humbug about family, kid etc is so stupid.

It's better to know when to pick a fight and when not.

What would you do? Drive them over?
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:40   #143
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Hostile group of people surrounding me wouldn't make me behave like a murderer especially when I'm out numbered 30:1. All the humbug about family, kid etc is so stupid.

It's better to know when to pick a fight and when not.

What would you do? Drive them over?
You have still not answered my question.

Will you remain seated inside your car with your family waiting for them to destroy your car and probably life
OR
will you floor the accelerator and try to get out of there.
Hoping to gain some time before law enforcement can get there and sort things out.
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:42   #144
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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You have still not answered my question.

Will you remain seated inside your car with your family waiting for them to destroy your car and probably life
OR
will you floor the accelerator and try to get out of there.
Hoping to gain some time before law enforcement can get there and sort things out.
I did answer your question. I said I would not act murderous and back off.

What would you do? Drive over them?
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:44   #145
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
I did answer your question. I said I would not act murderous and back off.

What would you do? Drive over them?
What do you mean by Back off?

Please explain, do you mean you will switch off the vehicle and get down and try to talk to them?

Or will you engage reverse and go backwards?

What exactly would you do?
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:45   #146
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
I did answer your question. I said I would not act murderous and back off.

What would you do? Drive over them?
You haven't answered his question yet. They're breaking windows punching you, your wife and kids, possibly using knives vs floor the pedal and buy some time till cops arrive.
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:53   #147
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Hostile group of people surrounding me wouldn't make me behave like a murderer especially when I'm out numbered 30:1. All the humbug about family, kid etc is so stupid.

It's better to know when to pick a fight and when not.

What would you do? Drive them over?
You have been provided enough evidence about the case (if you actually bother to read through this thread), but you're still stuck on unsupported assumptions. There's is no evidence (yet) whether the SUV driver intentionally picked a fight with the bikers, or ran them over with intent to murder.


Yet, you seem to conveniently assume both as facts, which makes your entire argument flawed at best. I'm still waiting for your views on the bikers attacking the lady and the kid, if you haven't conveniently overlooked that too. Even assuming you're right about the SUV driver, how do you justify a bunch of adults attacking a 2-year old?

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 8th October 2013 at 13:56.
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Old 8th October 2013, 13:59   #148
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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I did answer your question. I said I would not act murderous and back off.
Since you are in Bangalore, you'd quite remember the Pulsar gang muggings which were a common story at one point in time. Even the advice from the local cops at that point in time was to get out of the situation and call the police helpline.

Going by the similar incident, that is what Lien did as well.. get out of the way and he did call for help. It's obvious he did not drive over the biker on purpose. That was probably a consequence of his getting away, but not attempted murder.

And also, to those who said the bikers didnt look at attacking his family, take a look at the RR pics again, the passenger side window as well as the rear windshield were smashed too, and the driver is certainly not seated anywhere there!

I wonder about the effect of the incident on the 2 year old with flying glass shreds as well as the violence around.
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Old 8th October 2013, 14:15   #149
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

The "truth" or our understanding continues to evolve. Who does one believe? I think dashcams are the way to go.
http://pix11.com/2013/10/04/exclusiv...before-attack/

Quote:
Anthony told PIX11 that no one provoked Lien and he believes that he should be charged with a crime. “I believe he should be charged at minimum with fleeing the scene of an accident, a hit-and-run,” he said. “Nobody was threatening him, he was impatient. 99% of the drivers that we encountered that day were impatient, they were upset…but they didn’t take it to the next level and use their vehicle as a battering ram to get where they needed to be because they didn’t wanna be surrounded by bikes.”
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/02/us...deo/index.html

Quote:
Charges against motorcyclist Allen Edwards were dropped. The 42-year-old biker had originally faced charges of reckless endangerment, criminal mischief and menacing, the New York City Police Department said.
But that didn't mean the prosecutors were done.
"Prematurely charging individuals with low-level crimes does not further the goals of the investigation, and could weaken the cases we expect to bring against the perpetrators of serious crimes," said Friedman-Agnifilo said in a statement. "After we investigate the facts and each person's individual actions, we will know what charges can be supported by the evidence. There is still a tremendous amount of investigation to be done."

Edwards may have been trying to protect the driver of the SUV who had come under attack, according to one witness, a law enforcement official said.
If so, that may not be obvious in the video, which appears to have been shot by a biker, because it ends before the driver of the SUV is dragged from the vehicle, which also held his wife and 2-year-old daughter.
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Old 8th October 2013, 14:27   #150
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
The "truth" or our understanding continues to evolve. Who does one believe? I think dashcams are the way to go.
http://pix11.com/2013/10/04/exclusiv...before-attack/



http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/02/us...deo/index.html
Thanks for the reports.

Unsupported allegations don't do good to anyone. Good on the DA to withdraw charges against the said biker (and good on the biker for trying to help the SUV driver, if the witness account is true). They can always bring charges against everyone involved (including the SUV driver), as and when they have evidence to prove their claims, not just based on he said-she said which will get dismissed in court later.

I for one believe the biker community should be the first to denounce such behavior. Responsible, law-abiding bikers (and there are LOTS of them in the US & around the world) are getting a bad reputation because of a few rogue elements, and keeping quiet will make things worse.
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