Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th June 2006, 09:40   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjan united
spot on sujay. this is one of the reasons that the Corvette outperforms other cars, no matter how much BHP they have. This is something that the Viper really has to work on & also, reducing weight.
You guys couldnt be serious...please understand what you saying..

Dyno pulls on the vette have revealved that they do about 450-470rwhp

on 505 thats about 7-11% if the engine is not under rated, some say since it had a SAE rating it cant be under rated, but then again the dyno pulls might not have been SAE corrected or could be run on mustang dynos which give higher values..

anyhow..the point is, this is not the reason it is faster, it is faster because of the overall pkg..it would have been like saying since GT2 can pull 550ish hp from a 3.8l engine, only if F430's engine could pull similar hp/l it would be faster..there is no end to it..there are numerous factors, but surely drivetrain loss is not the answer you are looking for..

Reducing weight is absolutely something it needs to work on, viper has a deficit of about 300+lb which would take away 30-40hp power from the car, this would make it straightline as quick, then we get into handling and the story again stops..

Last edited by 1Day : 24th June 2006 at 09:43.
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2006, 09:42   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
islero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,574
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Isnt it ironic that Viper has no comfort features, no safety features, a cheaply constructed soft top, and is stripped down, but still weighs as much as it does?


Whatever one might say, you just gotta love this car!
islero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2006, 12:16   #18
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,054
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

1 day, not trying to prove anything or espouse a ricerboy theory. Hell even the Europeans wouldn't need 8 litres to generate 500 horses. I just believe that sportscars should have a certain amount of overall balance and efficiency - I don't think an 8 litre V10 plonked squarely up front is doing the car's balance and handling any favours, and at the same time it's not generating all that much power to justify its presence.

In fact, the Corvette has always been one of my all time favourite cars. But the Viper I feel is just too much hype and too little actual performance.

V13pr, your S class vs RR comparison doesn't work. You buy luxury cars for luxury not acceleration, which is why the RR "wins" (hurray for you!). But you buy sportscars for their performance (unless you prefer 9kmpl, in which case, hurray again, the Viper is THE car for you). Just kidding man, no offense meant or anything.

Anyways, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, so carry on...
Boom Shiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2006, 12:51   #19
BHPian
 
R32_GTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 543
Thanked: 157 Times
Default

No offense to anyone...especially 1 DAY...

I think american cars (performance cars) line...or muscle cars...or what ever they plan to call them...are only good in a straight!!

and in all honesty, i Love them for it!!!

Unless the handling bits are played around with.

thus even the crazy milage figures quoted before involve driving on a freeway at 60 - 80 kmph..in a straight line

I also feel that they are trying to revive the Whole Detroit Muscle era again to help them Market their loads...and are not necessarily succeeding with everything....the Mustang, the Viper, The new Charger to name a few..

the viper feels like a truck to drive with that heavy truckyy gearbox and that outdated pickup truck engine..especially the stock ones..

the only other option they have is to churn out more power out of it...(aren't we all )

Cant wait for the Camaro though...(for its looks at the moment)

Most of them that get these cars do not care about milage...and WILL redline from time to time...thus not achieveing the CLAIMED milage!!

Last edited by R32_GTR : 24th June 2006 at 12:59.
R32_GTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2006, 13:56   #20
Team-BHP Support
 
Rehaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 22,373
Thanked: 22,587 Times
Default

Don't get me wrong, i love the viper.
But who are we kidding? The engine is nowhere near "well engineered / designed".
What started off as a truck engine and then continued in its pushrod form cant really be ranked up there when it comes to engines.

Typical american move.
If you cant make it faster, make it bigger.
If you cant make it bigger, paint it red.



No doubt, it is still one of my favourite cars.
cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 24th June 2006 at 13:58.
Rehaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2006, 15:50   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
islero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,574
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

[quote=Boom Shiva]

V13pr, your S class vs RR comparison doesn't work. You buy luxury cars for luxury not acceleration, which is why the RR "wins" /QUOTE]



If you are only looking at the 'luxury' side of it, then the Maybach will win hands down, as it defenitely has more features and amore comfy cabin.

If you are looking at style and character, then the RR is universes ahead of the
bach.
islero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2006, 22:34   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R32_GTR
No offense to anyone...especially 1 DAY...

I think american cars (performance cars) line...or muscle cars...or what ever they plan to call them...are only good in a straight!!

and in all honesty, i Love them for it!!!

Unless the handling bits are played around with.
Again not to fuel anything or not trying to protect any particular marque, but man..are you living in the 80s??

Viper and Vette have awesome handling, Viper is still lacking, but to say its bad handling is a little stretch, the Vette is just pure perfection, the steering is a little numb but its still precise...

straight line, tell that to the vette team who pulled off better times than the Turbo and GT3 on the ring which is all about handling and very little to do with power...

the vettes slalom is better i think than the 911 counter parts, the response that you get from the 911 is better so an avg driver can push the car to the limit but with seat time you can do the same in the vette and the viper, its steering gives less feedback but is as precise if not more...

7:42.99 does warrant better handling than the 997 Turbo coming in at 7:47
both have about the same power, the 997TT is a little heavy but has better steering feed back and was driven by the legandary walter, if walter were to practice on the vette, i am sure with his experience he would knock few seconds off of the time..making the Z06 almost equal to the CGT on the ring, now thats something to talk about in terms of handling considering CGT has soo much more power and almost same weight..

Vette and Viper are the only american sports cars, mustang, Camero, Firebird dont count..

and they are anything but just a straight line performer...and you will realise that when the new GTR wouldnt be able to keep up with the Z06 and wouldnt be too far from the C6 if at all...that doesnt mean i dont like the GTR, i do thats y i have my name on the list, but facts are facts..I like the GTR for other reasons..

Last edited by 1Day : 24th June 2006 at 22:38.
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2006, 00:19   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan
Don't get me wrong, i love the viper.
But who are we kidding? The engine is nowhere near "well engineered / designed".
What started off as a truck engine and then continued in its pushrod form cant really be ranked up there when it comes to engines.

Typical american move.
If you cant make it faster, make it bigger.
If you cant make it bigger, paint it red.

No doubt, it is still one of my favourite cars.
cya
R
I used to think along those lines till Psycho got me to try those cars. It may be pushrod driven but they still do their job very well. WITHOUT turbos, intercoolers, headers, freeflows, custom ignition, oodles of electronics and other stuff.

To put things in perspective, lets look at R32_GTR's car specs:

Engine Specifications:
* RB26DETT
* 2600cc Twin Turbo
* Straight 6
* N1 SPEC TURBO

Engine Misc.:
* Dynoed at 326bhp @ 14psi - stock boost.
* 62XXX kms
* REDLINES @ 8500 rpm

Turbocharger & Induction:
* 2 x N1 Steel Blade Blowers rated 350 hp each.
* Blitz Stage 1 Turbo Timer with boost control.
* Blitz Series II BOV x 2
* GTR SPEC interlooler - 600 x 300 x 100
* Apexi pro - cold air intake system - GTR SPEC

Exhaust:
* HKS Stage II 3.5 inch all the way
* HKS 4 inch cannon at the back
* NISMO titanium extractors

Drivetrain:
* ATTESA electronic 4 wheel drive system
* HICAS electronic 4 wheel steering
* NISMO Short Shifter Kit
* NISMO 5PUK Clutch - (HEAVY)
* NISMO Strut Braces (Front & Back)

Interior:

* MOMO TREK R 320mm Steering Wheel (awaiting fitment)
* NISMO shift knob
* N1 SPEC Racing Seats


All this for 326 bhp...........when all that was really required was a bigger engine to give 340bhp & 475 nm with a stock pushrod in my case - with 8.5 kmpl to boot! Want power, push pedal - thats the SIMPLE truth.

Last edited by Steeroid : 25th June 2006 at 00:27.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2006, 00:36   #24
BHPian
 
2fast4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: pune / Bahrain
Posts: 488
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
I used to think along those lines till Psycho got me to try those cars. It may be pushrod driven but they still do their job very well. WITHOUT turbos, intercoolers, headers, freeflows, custom ignition, oodles of electronics and other stuff.

To put things in perspective, lets look at R32_GTR's car specs:

Engine Specifications:
* RB26DETT
* 2600cc Twin Turbo
* Straight 6
* N1 SPEC TURBO

Engine Misc.:
* Dynoed at 326bhp @ 14psi - stock boost.
* 62XXX kms
* REDLINES @ 8500 rpm

Turbocharger & Induction:
* 2 x N1 Steel Blade Blowers rated 350 hp each.
* Blitz Stage 1 Turbo Timer with boost control.
* Blitz Series II BOV x 2
* GTR SPEC interlooler - 600 x 300 x 100
* Apexi pro - cold air intake system - GTR SPEC

Exhaust:
* HKS Stage II 3.5 inch all the way
* HKS 4 inch cannon at the back
* NISMO titanium extractors

Drivetrain:
* ATTESA electronic 4 wheel drive system
* HICAS electronic 4 wheel steering
* NISMO Short Shifter Kit
* NISMO 5PUK Clutch - (HEAVY)
* NISMO Strut Braces (Front & Back)

Interior:

* MOMO TREK R 320mm Steering Wheel (awaiting fitment)
* NISMO shift knob
* N1 SPEC Racing Seats


All this for 326 bhp...........when all that was really required was a bigger engine to give 340bhp & 475 nm with a stock pushrod in my case - with 8.5 kmpl to boot! Want power, push pedal - thats the SIMPLE truth.
wonder how much would japs get out with a 5 ltr.
btw RB's are the most easy to tweak on a stock engine itself.
2fast4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2006, 01:25   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u
wonder how much would japs get out with a 5 ltr.
btw RB's are the most easy to tweak on a stock engine itself.


Not again...

then think of this, how much would american or asians or indians or germans or romanian would get out of a 8L or a 7L engine??

btw some of the simple setup 7/8L engines push 1200-1500hp from viper and vette, and the 1/4 times are in 6 sec, but thats not the point now is it?

I saw a video of an old gen viper, TT setup and was running with a modded hybusa and ninja, the only bike which really ****ed it was a highly moded+weight reduced hybusa, now thats something..

Last edited by 1Day : 25th June 2006 at 01:28.
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2006, 17:16   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u
wonder how much would japs get out with a 5 ltr.
Quite a handful more than the Americans, I'm sure. The point is not about Japs and Americans, however - its about making what is essentially a simple solution very complex.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2006, 21:34   #27
BHPian
 
2fast4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: pune / Bahrain
Posts: 488
Thanked: 5 Times
Default WAY OFF TOPIC - just for steeroid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Quite a handful more than the Americans, I'm sure. The point is not about Japs and Americans, however - its about making what is essentially a simple solution very complex.
finally we have to come to Power to Weight and heres where things come down for big US blocks.

Also what R32_GTR has is a Stock RB26DETT. Just remember this is Nissans N1 block that he has.
2600 cc = 310 hp
when tuned and set for performance u have this
2600cc = 400 to 450 hp
tweak this further to its best
2600cc = 700 to 900 hp

The RB series are THE best series of engines from Nissan

Now to ur question
"All this for 326 bhp...........when all that was really required was a bigger engine to give 340bhp & 475 nm with a stock pushrod in my case - with 8.5 kmpl to boot! Want power, push pedal - thats the SIMPLE truth."

THE Engine design is one thing Americans find very hard to get when power has to be extracted and so they go bigger.
whether its cars or bikes they need more ccs

Last edited by 2fast4u : 25th June 2006 at 21:36.
2fast4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2006, 01:45   #28
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,054
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

No offense Steeroid, but if big engined V8s like your Monaro are so great, how come they got beaten all over the Aussie V8 supercar championships by the Skylines. In fact, while the Skyline was around from 1990-92, the V8s could not win a single race.

Eventually in 1992 they controversially banned the GTR from the Aussie championships so that the V8s could stand a chance and start winning again.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is history as I remember it.
Boom Shiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2006, 01:51   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
1Day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago/Delhi
Posts: 1,357
Thanked: Once
Default

Without arguing more, i only want to say people who think that JAP engines seem to be better than the Americans or that they can pull out more power are quite ignorant..and forgetting that their 2.6L engine sometimes end up weighing more than the 5-7L engine from the simple american pushrods..

and about racing let me not point out the record C6R has @ Lemans
1Day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2006, 02:01   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 960
Thanked: 3 Times
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by R32_GTR
I think american cars (performance cars) line...or muscle cars...or what ever they plan to call them...are only good in a straight!!
Dude. You really don't know much about American made cars then.
Check out the power lap timings on Top Gear's website: www.bbc.co.uk/topgear
The Z06 is faster around the track than the 911 GT3, Koenigsegg amongst many other good handling cars. Plus the G meter in the Z06 is there for a reason, it can pull out some really impressive G figures while cornering which is pretty good for a supercar.
Also the Z06 has a 51:49 front to rear weight distribution which makes it extremely balanced and easy to manouvre. They even had to put the battery at the rear to achieve that.
sujaylahiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pics : Rajiv Shah and his car collection (Diablo, Viper, Firebird, 8series, etc) v12 Super-Cars & Imports in India 76 25th May 2012 21:01
Compatibility of Viper 3-Channel Security System with Keyless Entry anachronix Modifications & Accessories 6 31st January 2008 11:01
Lambo-Power..n Viper nikibusa The International Automotive Scene 1 24th February 2005 16:52
Heart of a 2004 Viper chaxy The International Automotive Scene 7 17th September 2004 22:18
For viper loving people... _Crazi4Speed_ The International Automotive Scene 2 5th March 2004 21:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:59.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks