Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd January 2014, 12:54   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
CARDEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NCR
Posts: 2,699
Thanked: 1,485 Times
Default Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Shell oil company has predicted that by the year 2070 conventionally-engined oil powered cars will be dead, & replaced by clean green alternative fuel - Hydrogen. The company's detailed 46-page analysis of future fuels & economic scenarios reads:

Quote:
‘By 2070, the passenger road market could be nearly oil-free. Towards the end of the century an extensive hydrogen infrastructure rollout displaces oil demand for long haul and heavy loads.’
More on this here:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...not-until-2070

PS: Mods I have created a separate thread for the topic, but if you feel prudent, you may move this to Alternative Fuels thread. Thanks
CARDEEP is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 13:03   #2
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,189
Thanked: 4,214 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Good if that happens and the better, the sooner. Its long since we have been driving cars on non-renewable energy. Greener, cleaner and cheaper practical alternative should have come by now. For eg. battery operated vehicles with better efficiency should have reached the mass now, if we look at the tech we have in the world. May be manufacturers want to get more for their investments in the conventional tech.
saket77 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 13:19   #3
BHPian
 
hellmet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GTA
Posts: 810
Thanked: 637 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Fossil-fueled cars will die by 2070 because we'll run out of fossil fuels by then, not because we move to "cleaner" tech. And, seriously, Hydrogen? I'm yet to see one practical car being developed that runs on Hydrogen.

This statement from Shell looks merely like they want status quo to continue.

IMO, EV is the future. Better battery technology should help to store sun's energy for night-time use, and the same battery technology could help increase the range of existing EV cars.
hellmet is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 15:00   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,626
Thanked: 967 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

So how are they going to produce the massive amounts of hydrogen?
I hope I didn't miss it, but I couldn't find the answer to this most important question in the scatter brained news reporter style article.
alpha1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 15:10   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
joybhowmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,905 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Alternative fuels need fossil fuels too. The much maligned fossil fuel - coal is responsible for a majority of power generation in most countries. So what are we doing - burning coal to heat water - make steam - run a turbine - generate electricity - transport electricity - lose some on the way - and then charge the battery.
Just so someone buys and drives a battery operated car with "clean energy" - and feels good about it?
And governments can say they reduced carbon footprint?
C'mon who are we trying to kid?
joybhowmik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 16:40   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

I am waiting for small portable fusion reactors, which you fill once with water, and forget about it. Hopefully, we will have a working prototype by 2030, and that, my friend will be the end of our energy woes.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 17:06   #7
BHPian
 
devsoftech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santa Clara
Posts: 228
Thanked: 119 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Just so someone buys and drives a battery operated car with "clean energy" - and feels good about it?
Mahindra E20 gives an option to setup solar charging station for 1-1.5 lakh. If still using power from grid, From charger to batteries (80% efficiency till here) to motor (DC motors typically has 90% efficiency), no gearing/clutch assembly for reduced tranmission loss, combined with regenerative braking - Loss is much lesser than what an ICE engine would achieve.

Some parts of Karnataka and north-western ghats gets clean power from hydro-electricity and windmills. So even location is India is an advantage to some, and such people are not wrong feeling good about minimizing carbon footprints
devsoftech is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 18:16   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
joybhowmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,905 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
Mahindra E20 gives an option to setup solar charging station for 1-1.5 lakh.
Thanks. Good to know Mahindra cares enough to give a solar recharge to a car. What kind of re-charge timing are we talking about here please?
Recharging from grid (which makes no distinction whether the electricity is from coal, or hydro or nuclear) - what kind of re-charge timing are we talking about here please?

For the general population (and I am one of those), IIRC, Top Gear showed Richard Hammond driving from North England to London in 2 days, most of which was spent recharging batteries on a 'very eco-friendly battery operated car'.

Sir, please get real - most of us "Aam aadmi's " can ill-afford to save the environment at the cost of things that are more urgent and important for survival. Hope you got the point!

Last edited by joybhowmik : 22nd January 2014 at 18:25.
joybhowmik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 18:50   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,626
Thanked: 967 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I am waiting for small portable fusion reactors, which you fill once with water, and forget about it. Hopefully, we will have a working prototype by 2030, and that, my friend will be the end of our energy woes.
You mean carrying your own portable sun with you.
Of course it is a nice thought, but how controllable and safe it would be?
alpha1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 19:28   #10
BHPian
 
devsoftech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santa Clara
Posts: 228
Thanked: 119 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Thanks. Good to know Mahindra cares enough to give a solar recharge to a car. What kind of re-charge timing are we talking about here please?
Recharging from grid (which makes no distinction whether the electricity is from coal, or hydro or nuclear) - what kind of re-charge timing are we talking about here please?

For the general population (and I am one of those), IIRC, Top Gear showed Richard Hammond driving from North England to London in 2 days, most of which was spent recharging batteries on a 'very eco-friendly battery operated car'.

Sir, please get real - most of us "Aam aadmi's " can ill-afford to save the environment at the cost of things that are more urgent and important for survival. Hope you got the point!
http://www.mahindrae2o.com/pdf/Sun2Car-Web-Brochure.pdf
Kindly refer the official document above. A car parked in open space for 8 hours is good enough by mahindra's standards to recharge the whole car.
Aam aadmi's are not buying E20. It takes a positive karma to shun the desire for a feature loaded car for a bare bones E20 and going the extra mile to invest in solar charging in lieu of accessories. I do not want to sound biased here and with due respect to everyone's spending desire and power, we will not find takers for E20 even if financially capable, and its has its own host of issues. At the same time I cannot buy the logic that cars like E20 still have the same carbon footprint. You might be surprised but most of my cellphone charging while doing weekend rides on bikes happens to be on 30000mAH battery pack which stores charge from solar energy. Agreed solar-charging-mobile has inefficiency but there is negligible carbon footprint. What I did not believe in your post was your assumption that government cannot reduce carbon footprint with people moving to battery operated cars. You should not have discounted the efficiency parameters and actual plans offered to customers to help reduce carbon footprints. Atleast I'm sure the day I buy the E20 package, I will not have any guilt sapping power from the grid because I'm gifted with clean power sources in our state and I will ensure that I reduce the load on the grid by using solar charging as much as possible. The issue is even if we were saving an iota of carbon footprint, it is always neglected and the move is not appreciated.
devsoftech is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 19:53   #11
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,973
Thanked: 11,916 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

By 2070, I think we'll all be flying cars and our cities will look like this -

Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070-20130512120037valerian_fifthelement2.jpg

I hope Shell's prediction is better than 1950 sci-fi movie predictions about future of automobiles.
smartcat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 19:54   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
joybhowmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,905 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
http://www.mahindrae2o.com/pdf/Sun2Car-Web-Brochure.pdf
Kindly refer the official document above. A car parked in open space for 8 hours is good enough by mahindra's standards to recharge the whole car.
Two points:
1) Open space. It is a rarity by today's living standards. Or perhaps Mahindra wants to sell this car in Indian villages on the Gangetic plain - which have a surfeit of sun.
2) 8 hours. I don't know about you, but I am afraid, as an urban dweller, incurably married to the rat race, I can't invest in doing good to the environment by keeping my car charging for 1/3rd of the day.

Bottom line: Get real- quick charge technology is the key. 8 hours charging!!!
So, you want to take your significant other 500 km away, you discover that every time you stop for a rest, the car needs to rest more than you!!!
I would rather take the train.
joybhowmik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 20:12   #13
BHPian
 
devsoftech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santa Clara
Posts: 228
Thanked: 119 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Two points:
1) Open space. It is a rarity by today's living standards. Or perhaps Mahindra wants to sell this car in Indian villages on the Gangetic plain - which have a surfeit of sun.
That's a trivial issue, especially in flats (atleast in our Greenwood Regency it is very much true), we are generally accommodating about solar water heaters, so why not solar panels. If you have open parking space, still better. You get a shelter and charging real estate. However, agreed that these benefits do not span pan-India, so its not win-win for everyone. Also cases like panel theft or battery theft could be concerns, so these are local issues. Not everyone might be so lucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
2) 8 hours. I don't know about you, but I am afraid, as an urban dweller, incurably married to the rat race, I can't invest in doing good to the environment by keeping my car charging for 1/3rd of the day.
Most of us work during this time and not drive. Your needs could be different and it may not make sense for your case. But during those 8 hours, you are not taxing the environment, and that small contribution makes a difference in long run. If we are capable, then why not ? It may be a personal choice, and those who go that way need not be let down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Bottom line: Get real- quick charge technology is the key. 8 hours charging!!!
So, you want to take your significant other 500 km away, you discover that every time you stop for a rest, the car needs to rest more than you!!!
I would rather take the train.
Probably you missed that cars are E20 are meant for short trips. Why would it be someone's pick for 500 kms. I do not see any issue with 8 hours charging, and when I'm to pick one, this is not making any sense to me. That said, if I have no choice, train would be the one of the ways for long journeys.

That said, I did mention that such cars are not everyone's pick. But the bottomline is that it will do good in reducing carbon footprint. Its all upto us. I think that was our original discussion. I'm all in support for life of vehicles like E20, given that fossil fuel starts becoming inaccessible to us.
devsoftech is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 20:18   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
joybhowmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,905 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
That's a trivial issue, especially in flats (atleast in our Greenwood Regency it is very much true), we are generally accommodating about solar water heaters, so why not solar panels. If you have open parking space, still better. You get a shelter and charging real estate. However, agreed that these benefits do not span pan-India, so its not win-win for everyone. Also cases like panel theft or battery theft could be concerns, so these are local issues. Not everyone might be so lucky.


Most of us work during this time and not drive. Your needs could be different and it may not make sense for your case. But during those 8 hours, you are not taxing the environment, and that small contribution makes a difference in long run. If we are capable, then why not ? It may be a personal choice, and those who go that way need not be let down.


Probably you missed that cars are E20 are meant for short trips. Why would it be someone's pick for 500 kms. I do not see any issue with 8 hours charging, and when I'm to pick one, this is not making any sense to me. That said, if I have no choice, train would be the one of the ways for long journeys.

That said, I did mention that such cars are not everyone's pick. But the bottomline is that it will do good in reducing carbon footprint. Its all upto us. I think that was our original discussion. I'm all in support for life of vehicles like E20, given that fossil fuel starts becoming inaccessible to us.
The ideal is laudable - make no bones about it. Who doesn't want energy for "free". The key to mass acceptability is zero constraints - no if's and but's. So as Mahindra wants to sell this idea to the masses - perhaps the Bolero should sell with solar panels - yes?

Last edited by joybhowmik : 22nd January 2014 at 20:21.
joybhowmik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2014, 21:45   #15
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default Re: Shell predicts the death of fossil fuel cars by 2070

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
You mean carrying your own portable sun with you.
Of course it is a nice thought, but how controllable and safe it would be?
Well, if its not controllable, it won't be called a power plant. It will be called a bomb .
Simple, ain't it ?
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shell in India (fuel, lubes, outlets) Pani The Indian Car Scene 2686 6th December 2017 20:14
Shell increases fuel prices by Rs.0.80. EDIT : Now by Rs.2 Vid6639 The Indian Car Scene 79 28th May 2012 14:29
Fuel Adultration!! Death of Commissioner bullock-Car Shifting gears 60 3rd February 2011 00:22
Short supply of fuel at Shell outlets in Bangalore benbsb29 Shifting gears 53 5th July 2007 16:38


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:08.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks