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Old 30th June 2006, 04:46   #1
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Default Is the Toyota legend falling?

Toyota has been hit with a spate of recalls since the last few months. They have recalled 9,000 FJ Cruisers for a tyre problem but did it in a sneaky way so the media doesn't get wind of it. Protecting their reliablity image? Read story here.

Another 'small" news floating around in Toronto is about Toyota recalling new Camry's for transmission problem. The transmission could lose second and sixth gears during operation. (does the new Camry have a 6 speed automatic?) The company says only half percent of Camry's built so far are affected but they have refrained from giving the nos in units. Considering the way Toyota is expanding, half percent in North America is HUGE.

And the last bit of news is in the form of a very interesting article that lists down the spate of recalls that have hit the Japanese car maker. The article refers to Toyota as a "army with diminishing logistics in a war" pointing out that furious expansion is hitting quality bad as Toyota struggles with personnel shortage and has to employ workers with not enough skills.

Quote:
The recall of Land Cruiser Ractis was the fifth such action taken in 2006 alone. In February a total of about 26,000 Ractis cars produced between September and December of last year were recalled.
Quote:
76,000 four-wheel-drive cars of 10 models, including those of Granvia and Hiace, produced between September 1995 and October 2005 had to be recalled.
And in a major hit to Toyota even it's prestigious Lexus brand has been hit with recalls.

Quote:
11,109 Lexus luxury cars of four types, including the GS430, made between July and December 2005, were recalled because of deficiency in the seatbelts
Quote:
recalling a total of 107,767 units of the Land Cruiser Prado that were manufactured between April 96 and January 1999.
The above, I guess are pretty old production models.

I would suggest you guys to read through that article. It's very interesting and talks of how Toyota is struggling to maintain quality due to heavy demand for it's products. Apparently, the higher ups in the company are extremely worried about the huge number of recalls that have happened.

Quote:
people inside Toyota are furiously trying to do something because the current situation will develop into something very serious if nothing is done."
The Full article can be read here.

Another piece of news was about Toyota asking it's vendors not to supply parts to Hyundai. That news is here. (Don't sell parts to Hyundai: Toyota to it's vendors)

The fact that Toyota higher-ups are aware of the problem and are frantically moving to do something is good news for car buyers. It really is now a question of whether heavy demand for it's products takes it toll on Toyota quality or can the company work itself out of this tight situation.

Last edited by amit : 30th June 2006 at 04:49.
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Old 30th June 2006, 05:35   #2
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Toyota doesnt really fit the legend bill properly.

They are big overall but none of their products are really the best out there.

to be considered Japanese Legend I will count on Nissan.
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Old 30th June 2006, 08:28   #3
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Nissan Skyline GTR to be exact.
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Old 30th June 2006, 10:37   #4
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Default Thanks for the wonderful info.

Dear Amit

I don't know much about you. Like you, even I drive my Palio.

I am a Prof In a business school and your msg is handy to relate Backward integration concept.

Hyperlinks provided have been wonderful, especially striking of "recall" and calling it "Special Service drive".

Thanks for the wonderful info.

Sukheshkumar









Quote:
Originally Posted by amit
Toyota has been hit with a spate of recalls since the last few months. They have recalled 9,000 FJ Cruisers for a tyre problem but did it in a sneaky way so the media doesn't get wind of it. Protecting their reliablity image? Read story here.

Another 'small" news floating around in Toronto is about Toyota recalling new Camry's for transmission problem. The transmission could lose second and sixth gears during operation. (does the new Camry have a 6 speed automatic?) The company says only half percent of Camry's built so far are affected but they have refrained from giving the nos in units. Considering the way Toyota is expanding, half percent in North America is HUGE.

And the last bit of news is in the form of a very interesting article that lists down the spate of recalls that have hit the Japanese car maker. The article refers to Toyota as a "army with diminishing logistics in a war" pointing out that furious expansion is hitting quality bad as Toyota struggles with personnel shortage and has to employ workers with not enough skills.





And in a major hit to Toyota even it's prestigious Lexus brand has been hit with recalls.





The above, I guess are pretty old production models.

I would suggest you guys to read through that article. It's very interesting and talks of how Toyota is struggling to maintain quality due to heavy demand for it's products. Apparently, the higher ups in the company are extremely worried about the huge number of recalls that have happened.



The Full article can be read here.

Another piece of news was about Toyota asking it's vendors not to supply parts to Hyundai. That news is here. (Don't sell parts to Hyundai: Toyota to it's vendors)

The fact that Toyota higher-ups are aware of the problem and are frantically moving to do something is good news for car buyers. It really is now a question of whether heavy demand for it's products takes it toll on Toyota quality or can the company work itself out of this tight situation.
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Old 30th June 2006, 10:50   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbhp
Nissan Skyline GTR to be exact.
Now that is a legend, one that wont be challenged for a long long time maybe. A potential supercar which can be afforded by mortals.
Coming back to the topic, from what I see here in USofA, Toyota and Honda are the pillars of the middle class car dream
A first car is spelled as a corolla or a Civic, or if you land a higher paying first job its Accord or the camry.
These cars are supposed to run forever and ever without any trouble. Such reliability has come to be expected of these 2 companies.
People say "I wont buy an american cars, they are BS, I will either go for a Jap"
Jap means by default T and H, and little of that effect rubs on the Nissan/Mitsu etc.,(Though their ownership has gone to others).
Now in comes Hyundai, a korean company which makes cars for losers. Their accent is a joke, and you want an accent if you are a pizza delivery boy.
But things are changing. Their are rumors that pizza delivery van does not give quality problems. And some pizza delivery vans come with hot engines which can last forever and ever and they cost less.
So the California Techie is switching over.
The GMs and Chryslers have lost the battle and the war, and this pizza delivery van maker has sneaked up to these guys.
And when such news is accompanied by hundreds of recalls, a legend is shaken.
GM okay, Ford okay they never ever knew how to make cars, but Toyota or Honda?
Once this legend starts to die, it will kill their golden goose, the corolla/camry combo. Its very very difficult to bring back trust. Look what happened to the Detroit gang, even Americans are buying Jap cars now.
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Old 30th June 2006, 11:45   #6
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Toyota and honda have survived because various reasons. And believe me the analysis holds true.

I have hardly seen any Asian (including Indians) in N.America buy anything but a jap brand. They are loyal to their country even in this age of globalization. If These chinese,japs and Indians(The biggest Honda Fans) start opening their mind to other brands then Honda and toyota will automatically die fall down to their original level.

While the average American Changes his car every 3-4 years the real life cycle of Jap cars meets these requirements. While The American and EUropeans still want to build long lasting cars. Volkswagen still uses velvet upholstery in their glovebox andboot while Honda accord and toyota camry lay nude.

Americans brands are still confusing brand conscious buyers by parking n number of brands in their showrooms fighting for the same segment.

Toyota and Honda are in no way god but their strategies and operations are right on track while the big three dumbos are still fiddling around.

Look at the market share of European manufacturers in Europe compared to Japs.

Just look at the Indian Market. maruti stands number 1 (Its not the suzuki effect but the maruti effect)

Tata motors Indica platform is the largest sellingplatform in India
Mahindra's scorpiohas taken the MUV market by storm and neither
Honda/Toyota/Mitsubishi/NIssan are on the horizon.


But the Indian market is not as mature as the N.American market Which counts for a major chunk of their market shareand hence Honda and toyota are dancing away today.

NIssan is a true competitor because their major salescome from Europe where Honda and Toyota have withered. Nissan still is the 2nd largest Jap car manufacturer and hence I will consider Nissan a Japlegend and not honda and toyota

Last edited by devarshi84 : 30th June 2006 at 11:50.
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Old 30th June 2006, 12:09   #7
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You could berate Honda / Toyota as much as you like, but the fact remains that between them, they make the most reliable cars and affordable to boot. If Indians (and increasingly the Americans too) prefer Honda/Toyota over other makes, it is not because they are out to promote these brands. It is because they get value for the money paid and no headaches in the form of breakdowns and other quality issues, for years to come. Which is quite unlike some of the cars we get here in India, where even before the 1st service, you have not only minor issues like rattles, but even major breakdowns.

My boss (American) drives a Lexus for the past 3 years. In his words, "I would like to change my car, but these damn Jap cars don't give you a reason (read issue) to cite as excuse for changing". Giving the Americans a run for their money is not an easy task, more so when you not only have to strive to be the best, but also have to tackle below-the-belt policies that the Yankees use to protect American business interests.

For all those that keep blaring that Honda/Suzuki exploits the Indian consumer, all I can say is, the product deserves the premium (if at all any is charged) and worth every penny of it. Take it or leave it - Honda does not create the super sales figures by forcing anyone to buy their cars.

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Old 30th June 2006, 12:29   #8
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I am not berating toyota/Honda compared to American brands.

All I say is "It's not the Japs that surpass the Quality levels but Its the Americans which fall below the acceptable quality levels.

Read my analysis properly. Dont be a fanboy. Why pay a premium when you are the ultimate consumer. Buy a honda/Toyota but pay the right price.
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Old 30th June 2006, 12:44   #9
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Either way, it just means that the Japs are better at what they do.
Don't assume things about others. Like, thinking that everyone who likes a brand that you do not happen to like is a fanboy, while your admiration for some other brand doesn't make you one.

And as far as the right price is concerned, it is the market forces that decide that - the buyer knows what he is getting for what he shells out. The Indian consumer is pretty well-informed to not need advice from any self-declared pricing experts. And please stick to posting your thoughts, if any, instead of nagging me.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 30th June 2006 at 12:48.
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Old 30th June 2006, 16:44   #10
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A very informative write up Amit...good stats there!!

But recalls are a part of every large carmaker...This has happened in the past with many other carmakers...

Toyota has relied on a few of its flagship models in the past to get to where it is today and has narrowed down the number of its top sellers; the Corolla, Yaris, (the economical VFM models) to name a few...which is good to bring in the continued revenue to keep them going...

Whats most surprising is the recall of the Prado's...My uncle took one back from here a couple of years back...(and i thought they were faultless!!!)

They have just been trying too hard to have a wider and broader product line which is now costing them!!

All i can say though is Giants like toyota would never fall...they are literally the future of the new generation of the Automobile....(Ugly, slow, economical, cheap etc etc)...the result of the demand for such cars that are VFM (read cheap and practical in all aspects) which is scary but necessary!!!

all i can think of at this moment is for myself and every one who feels the need for speed, power etc etc....

ALWAYS WANTED A CRAZY SPORTS CAR...GET IT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!

the clock is ticking!!!!!!!

Last edited by R32_GTR : 30th June 2006 at 16:46.
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Old 30th June 2006, 19:11   #11
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Quote:
All I say is "It's not the Japs that surpass the Quality levels but Its the Americans which fall below the acceptable quality levels.
Leaf springs on a supercar - you bet they're falling behind.

Shan2nu
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Old 30th June 2006, 21:38   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
Either way, it just means that the Japs are better at what they do.
I agree. and this I have mentioned in the first post itself.


Quote:
Don't assume things about others. Like, thinking that everyone who likes a brand that you do not happen to like is a fanboy, while your admiration for some other brand doesn't make you one.
I never said I dont like Honda or toyota. I am already waiting for the Honda civic launch now that it's gonna have paddleshifters.

And remember, the brand I admire is also a jap brand.

When I said fanboy, It was targeted at you personally. It was targeted at your statement that said payinga premium for a brand is fine. Learn to read between the lines.

Quote:
And as far as the right price is concerned, it is the market forces that decide that - the buyer knows what he is getting for what he shells out. The Indian consumer is pretty well-informed to not need advice from any self-declared pricing experts. And please stick to posting your thoughts, if any, instead of nagging me
paying a premium doesnt mean paying for what you get. And I hope you use better respectable words next time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
Leaf springs on a supercar - you bet they're falling behind.
Well that's just one of the factors. Me, Amit and Ambylimo had been to the Autoshow held in Toronto recently. I tell ya these American cars are hollow.

I used to respect chrysler with their 300 topping the sales charts and the lincoln zephyr. Boy I shut the door and held the steering. All my love for these paper tigers was gone.

On the other hand I sat in Infiniti,lexus and Acura. didnt have words to describe their quality feel. A step behind Europeans in every quarter but that's still respectable.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 30th June 2006 at 21:47.
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Old 30th June 2006, 21:47   #13
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Note from mod : Cool down both of you
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Old 30th June 2006, 22:07   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R32_GTR
A very informative write up Amit...good stats there!!

But recalls are a part of every large carmaker...This has happened in the past with many other carmakers...

Toyota has relied on a few of its flagship models in the past to get to where it is today and has narrowed down the number of its top sellers; the Corolla, Yaris, (the economical VFM models) to name a few...which is good to bring in the continued revenue to keep them going...

Whats most surprising is the recall of the Prado's...My uncle took one back from here a couple of years back...(and i thought they were faultless!!!)

They have just been trying too hard to have a wider and broader product line which is now costing them!!

All i can say though is Giants like toyota would never fall...they are literally the future of the new generation of the Automobile....(Ugly, slow, economical, cheap etc etc)...the result of the demand for such cars that are VFM (read cheap and practical in all aspects) which is scary but necessary!!!

all i can think of at this moment is for myself and every one who feels the need for speed, power etc etc....

ALWAYS WANTED A CRAZY SPORTS CAR...GET IT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!

the clock is ticking!!!!!!!
good writeup. that's looking at the otherside of the face. I need to start thinking which supercar I want or else one day lamborghini will make a 15kmpl supercar that does -100 in more than 10 secs.
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Old 1st July 2006, 00:22   #15
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Might be off topic or related to this thread... if it's off topic, I apologise. You know what the problem with owning a Toyota vehicle amongst the ones available in India is? Your heart (if you're looking at a car with only one thing in mind - total control) would ask you why you own one or even go as far as calling it good enough to be a taxi, but by God, these Toyota vehicles just go on and on and on with the least amout of maintenance and the maximum abuse... Silly shyts! They make me salute them when I really don't care for them at all lol.... Even the UN prefers Toyota vehicles. Most of all, as all-rounders in their respective segments, these Toys are hard to beat.

NOTE: My post mainly relates to Toyota vehicles brought in after 2000/02
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