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Old 9th December 2014, 18:53   #1
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Default Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

VW is reportedly planning to introduce a new model that will rival the likes of the Mercedes-Benz E-Class and BMW 5-Series. The new car will slide in between the Passat and Phaeton. Reports suggest that the new vehicle will share its platform with the next-generation Audi A6.

Labelled the "Noble-VW" the new car will supposedly be designed as a sedan and could even be produced as a shooting brake. While rivals for the new model will include offerings from fellow German car makers, VW's reputation isn't one of a luxury car maker. The VW Phaeton for example, has struggled to find its place among rivals like the Mercedes-Benz S-Class. Therefore, the new car could find itself facing the same challenges as the Hyundai Genesis.

However, if the model is produced and priced right, VW may offer it as a more affordable alternative to models like the E-Class, Jaguar XF or even its cousin the Audi A6.

Source: AutoBild

Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series-image_02.jpg

(Car in image is the Volkswagen Phaeton)
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Old 10th December 2014, 16:31   #2
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Default Re: Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

Going after the E-Class & 5-Series is definitely a more realistic target than the Phaeton fighting the mighty S

VW has the technology & talent to build a competent luxury sedan. We can safely expect it to offer a car equal to the luxury Germans at a significantly lower price. Honestly, I wouldn't be too worried about the overlap with the A6, as there are markets where people would prefer a subtle VW to the flashier Audi badge.
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Old 10th December 2014, 20:03   #3
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Default Re: Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

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Going after the E-Class & 5-Series is definitely a more realistic target than the Phaeton fighting the mighty S

VW has the technology & talent to build a competent luxury sedan. We can safely expect it to offer a car equal to the luxury Germans at a significantly lower price. Honestly, I wouldn't be too worried about the overlap with the A6, as there are markets where people would prefer a subtle VW to the flashier Audi badge.
It looks like the gap in quality between VW models and corresponding Mercedes and BMW models is coming down gradually over the years. Probably, the day is not far, when cheaper VW cars are as good as Mercedes and BMW cars.
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Old 10th December 2014, 21:51   #4
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Default Re: Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

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It looks like the gap in quality between VW models and corresponding Mercedes and BMW models is coming down gradually over the years. Probably, the day is not far, when cheaper VW cars are as good as Mercedes and BMW cars.
They would probably not match the driving dynamics of the E/ 5 ever (just as Audi struggles to) - with the Front wheel drive layout. For the person who is not worried about that, just like Audi does, the VW could be a good alternative. I will wait and watch - The Phaeton never managed to taste much success, I'm not convinced that someone paying that much money will want to get a VW badge - this is something Hyundai and Kia have tried too - make E/5 competitors in their own badge - but haven't had a ton of success.
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Old 10th December 2014, 22:05   #5
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Default Re: Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

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Originally Posted by vineethvazhayil View Post
They would probably not match the driving dynamics of the E/ 5 ever (just as Audi struggles to) - with the Front wheel drive layout.
Slightly OT, but I would challenge you on that.

That is a pretty sweeping generalization, given that you're clubbing the 5 and E on one hand (2 very different animals) for exalted handling and undermining the massive Quattro-based A6 on the other. If you're talking M or AMG, the Audi S variant holds it's own too.

Returning to the topic at hand, I'm not too sure on the tweener VW, but would like to be pleasantly surprised
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Old 11th December 2014, 19:39   #6
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Default Re: Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

I don't doubt or undermine the VW quality. It makes good cars with good features like the Passat and the Jetta but according to me it will not be able to compete with the Beemers and Mercs. Also it will eat up it's own A6. In my opinion, VW should not compare itself with BMW and Mercedes as they are a class apart. I don't consider A6 as well to be in the same segment as the 5 & E. Personally, I just can't understand why people compare the A6 to 5 & E when the only thing that cancels the A6 out is the Front Wheel Drive. VW Group is so much into platform sharing that an experienced technician told me that the R8 and the Gallardo share the same platform and engine. Tuners in Dubai charge 100000 INR and tune the R8 engine as per Lamborghini Specs. To me the VW Group seems to be a group with people who are lazy or cheeky when it comes to change the basics of the car. Just no product differentiation. I pity the Audi buyers who don't know what they are paying for.
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Old 13th December 2014, 07:37   #7
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A welcome move by VW. Always admired them for bringing quality products at a relatively affordable price. Although I'm unsure as to how well this proposed model is going to survive in the market. Of course, there'll be some takers who prefer a simple VW over it's flashy siblings, but not many. If the upcoming Passat is the sign of things to come, it will be interesting to see how this car is going to turn out.

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In my opinion, VW should not compare itself with BMW and Mercedes as they are a class apart. I don't consider A6 as well to be in the same segment as the 5 & E.
Agreed with the VW statement, not so much with the Audi one. Don't think there's much to be explained here, as Audi is doubtlessly just as good a serious contender for the top luxury car manufacturer in the world as the other two. Mainstream models come with FWD which is not an enthusiast's taste, but one just cannot ignore the Quattro. Even BMW is bringing FWD models to the market in the next few years.

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VW Group is so much into platform sharing that an experienced technician told me that the R8 and the Gallardo share the same platform and engine. Tuners in Dubai charge 100000 INR and tune the R8 engine as per Lamborghini Specs.
There's only 15% part sharing between the R8 and the Gallardo. Also, the Gallardo utilizes titanium and carbon fiber construction elements while the R8 predominantly utilizes aluminium. With such a huge brand umbrella encompassing some of the world's most iconic brands it is naturally inevitable for component sharing to take place to save on expenses. Not to everyone's taste, but that's how it is. Tuning is a whole new world in itself. You can tune a GT-R to 1000 HP, but that doesn't necessarily make it a Veyron!

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I pity the Audi buyers who don't know what they're paying for
By that logic, we should be pitying the Lamborghini buyers as well.

Cheers

Last edited by GKR9900 : 13th December 2014 at 07:55.
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Old 13th December 2014, 12:22   #8
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Default Re: Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

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Originally Posted by vineethvazhayil View Post
They would probably not match the driving dynamics of the E/ 5 ever (just as Audi struggles to) - with the Front wheel drive layout. For the person who is not worried about that, just like Audi does, the VW could be a good alternative. I will wait and watch - The Phaeton never managed to taste much success, I'm not convinced that someone paying that much money will want to get a VW badge - this is something Hyundai and Kia have tried too - make E/5 competitors in their own badge - but haven't had a ton of success.
Yes I so agree with you on that, even Jaguar has stuck to the same route. However, if VW comes up with something where the engine is mounted N-S (Longitudinal) then there could be something in it.

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Originally Posted by BackInTheFold View Post
Slightly OT, but I would challenge you on that.

That is a pretty sweeping generalization, given that you're clubbing the 5 and E on one hand (2 very different animals) for exalted handling and undermining the massive Quattro-based A6 on the other. If you're talking M or AMG, the Audi S variant holds it's own too.
The rear wheel drive layout is not about being out and out fast, its about a driving feel where the steering is uncorrupted by powertrain interferences, one does not need to go all the way up to the M and AMG for that (Infact I was reading quite a few reports which were suggesting how both of these were probably being quite redundant as you probably get some very nice cars to drive lower down the order, if ordered with an optional suspension package. A quattro/All-wheel-drive, though quite a go-fast tool, does not match the feel.
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Old 13th December 2014, 21:07   #9
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Default Re: Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

LOL. Yes we should pity the Lambo buyers also, but not any more. The Gallardo is no more in production.
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Old 18th December 2014, 07:18   #10
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Originally Posted by mustangboss302 View Post
LOL. Yes we should pity the Lambo buyers also, but not any more. The Gallardo is no more in production.
Let's save it for the 2016 R8 mate Its going to share its components with the Huracan. That's going to open up a new season of this part-sharing controversy. I for one don't see anything wrong in this approach as long as the cars are well differentiated in looks, performance and character.
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Old 24th November 2016, 12:49   #11
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Default Re: Rumour: VW planning a rival for the E-Class, 5-Series

Considering the Passat and Superb are essentially 5/E/A6/XF competitors (on size, not features or 6 cylinder engines); I'm very interested in what VW have up their sleeves.

If it's a RWD/AWD V6 bi-turbo option around the market price of a 3 series prestige or sportsline it might sell otherwise it'll go the way of the XF, D-O-A. That's wishful thinking at best considering the Superb pricing and expected Passat prices.
Having driven the new Superb, I'm of the strong opinion that it's only worth buying over the 3 series if you are chauffeur driven or if the car will see significant rear seat use for adults. VW will have to come up with a serious incentive to buy by differentiating in terms of Engineering, Dynamics, Features, Interiors and pricing. No one is India is going to buy a big three competitor priced in the 40-50 lakh bracket. They would rather buy one of the big three for a bit more unless they really can't deal with the badge.

Last edited by imp! : 24th November 2016 at 12:51.
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