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Old 25th September 2015, 08:39   #241
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

What good will calling out VW as cheats will do? The only effective thing that will hurt them in any market is if no one buys their product.

I won't be surprised to see that happen in the US, at least for some time.

The problem right now about punishing VW by not buying their cars is that one doesn't know if they are the only ones guilty.
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Old 25th September 2015, 08:40   #242
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW will pick Porsche chief as next CEO.

Volkswagen Group's supervisory board will pick Matthias Mueller, the head of sports-car maker Porsche, as its next chief executive to succeed Martin Winterkorn.
Mueller, 62, has led Porsche since 2010. He is backed by members of the Porsche-Piech family which controls a majority stake in VW Group.
Mueller also has the support of VW's influential labor leaders.

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Mueller, VW Group's former head product strategist, has a majority of votes on the 20-member supervisory panel, which is due to meet on Friday
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Mueller will likely beat out Herbert Diess, a former BMW executive who took over the newly created post of VW brand chief this year
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VW's Czech division, Skoda, is the favorite candidate to take charge of VW's U.S
At least four high-ranking executives will be forced to quit as part of VW's attempt to clear up its diesel emissions scandal.

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Audi r&d boss Ulrich Hackenberg and Porsche's engine chief, Wolfgang Hatz, will be dismissed at the supervisory board meeting on Friday.
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VW's current U.S. chief executive, Michael Horn, will also be fired
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VW brand development chief Heinz-Jakob Neusser will also be forced out
http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...autonews-blast

Last edited by volkman10 : 25th September 2015 at 08:47.
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Old 25th September 2015, 09:44   #243
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Interesting, Bosch confirmed they produced the component to the Volkswagen specification "The responsibility for application and integration of the components lies with Volkswagen,"

Source
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Old 25th September 2015, 10:17   #244
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Bosch is probably just as complicit in the guilt. Or someone other than VW is, because the building of an engine management system/software that has the defeat feature can't be a VW competency, I imagine.

This is like the company making the gas chamber equipment denying any guilt of the use they were put to in the German run death camps.

Last edited by Sawyer : 25th September 2015 at 10:19.
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Old 25th September 2015, 10:23   #245
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

BREAKING NEWS! VW has just identified the Quality Control engineer who tested and certified its 'Clean Diesel' cars...
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Old 25th September 2015, 10:24   #246
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Volkswagen has designed a car and identified what goes in it. It then asks Bosch or whoever to make a certain component. The moral questions will not be for Bosch to answer but will be solely directed at VW. If Bosch had refused they would had taken their corrupt idea to someone else...! It was VW's decision and not Bosch, even if Bosch had suggested it in the first place.
It is like holding dell responsible for making a top notch computer which was ultimately used by a hacker...!?
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Old 25th September 2015, 10:57   #247
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by msprabhakar View Post
BREAKING NEWS! VW has just identified the Quality Control engineer who tested and certified its 'Clean Diesel' cars
Well, cant blame them, you see at the time of the scarf test the car was idling and steering inputs were none.. if perhaps the scarf was wound over the tailpipe & the car was driven some then the story would've been different.

Jokes apart the real elephant in the room as I've said in the previous post is diesel itself, and the bigger the engine capacity the worse it can get. I cant help but feel the environment laws are kicking in way too late the world over, India & Europe must wake up from this pipe-dream of clean diesels quick and atleast understand the reality if not avoid it. VW just made that added blunder by using electronics to cover up emissions, electronics have always affected German products and this time its for extremely well-functioning reasons. Who else resorted to such means might also come out in due course.
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Old 25th September 2015, 11:08   #248
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
...the real elephant in the room... is diesel itself...
Lesson from VW's Dieselgate: "Always trust old wives"

BTW, which Indian software company is involved in programming this 'defeat device'?
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Old 25th September 2015, 11:36   #249
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by MavericK46 View Post
All the news articles I've read surrounding this fail to mention a certain someone who has the cojones and the experience to drag VW out of this muck - Ferdinand Piech.
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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Volkswagen Group's supervisory board...Mueller also has the support of VW's influential labor leaders.
Exactly. CEOs is such organizations are often a (board) consensus decision. That said, Ferdinand Piech will certainly wield more influence in the post Winterkom era.
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Old 25th September 2015, 11:40   #250
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I saw someone raise a query about India - i was tempted to answer what about our Diesel, the majority of pumps have it laced with copious quantities of Kerosene!
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Old 25th September 2015, 12:15   #251
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by svkndv View Post
Interesting, Bosch confirmed they produced the component to the Volkswagen specification "The responsibility for application and integration of the components lies with Volkswagen,"
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Bosch is probably just as complicit in the guilt. Or someone other than VW is, because the building of an engine management system/software that has the defeat feature can't be a VW competency, I imagine.

This is like the company making the gas chamber equipment denying any guilt of the use they were put to in the German run death camps.
IMHO, Bosch cannot be held responsible for how VW defines a product and how it uses it. I had mentioned this in an earlier post. If VW provides a definition for how the ECU should handle various input and output parameters, Bosch as a vendor would just implement this. They will have no control on why VW wanted this input/output parameters. Even the whole ECU software would be done in different modules that the engineers who write these modules will not know the final product outcome. It is even possible that Bosch may not have any idea on the final intention. So, I believe the responsibility completely lies with VW. This is how the industry works.

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
...
On the other hand, if VW provided the product requirements and firmware was developed at Siemens/Bosch, they would know. Even in this case, they cannot be held responsible. If VW in their product definition mentioned under such and such steering input, speed and temperature conditions, provide this much fuel input, this much boost etc., Siemens or Bosch would just implement this logic in the firmware (as an embedded engineer, I would do the same, even if I don't understand the reason behind these conditions). The responsibility for defining such conditions still lie with VW.
Disclaimer: I am in no way related to VW (except as a Jetta owner) or Bosch. I am embedded engineer and have personally seen how closely product definitions and reason behind such definitions are guarded in the automotive industry.

Last edited by Samurai : 25th September 2015 at 12:16. Reason: action taken
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Old 25th September 2015, 12:19   #252
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Trouble rising for the VW group in the US:

At least 27 state attorneys general are opening a multi-state investigation into the German auto giant's US workings and are readying subpoenas to slap on the car company
.

Quote:
Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette's office said Thursday he and at least 26 other attorneys general will send subpoenas to the German automaker.

Spokeswoman Andrea Bitely says many states will investigate both through their consumer protection and environmental protection divisions.

Participating states include Alabama, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont and Virginia. Washington, DC, also is involved.
ET Auto


On a side note, received this on WhatsApp last night:

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So apparently a single Volkswagen car emits as much as Ten autos and hence the Ad line - DAS AUTO!
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Old 25th September 2015, 12:51   #253
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by svkndv View Post
Interesting, Bosch confirmed they produced the component to the Volkswagen specification "The responsibility for application and integration of the components lies with Volkswagen,"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Bosch is probably just as complicit in the guilt. Or someone other than VW is, because the building of an engine management system/software that has the defeat feature can't be a VW competency, I imagine.
Reading between the lines of that Bosch statement, it is quite possible that the Bosch software provided/gathered the basic sensor inputs like steering position, pedal usage etc and a piece of software written by VW took these inputs to run the "cheat algorithm" to control the ECU. It is not necessary that Bosch knew how VW used these inputs - an input like steering position or pedal usage could have multiple legitimate uses within a car.
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Old 25th September 2015, 13:08   #254
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Why are all our righteous members not out with their sticks and spades to call out on the lying cheats at Volkswagen, now that enough and more technical clarifications have been provided?

Not so sure what a righteous member looks like. I'm really not that bothered as I have never ever bought a car in my life for fuel economy or emission levels.

When all is said and done, you will most likely find VW makes, by and large, stonking good cars at a reasonable price for the masses. If you don't want to buy VW cars because of this, that's one's choice one is free to make.

There is no doubt they goofed up big time of course.

Never the less, I m just interested in how they actually did it. And no, we haven't seen anything anywhere near a good technical explanation. Despite various claims so and diagrams that should substantiate those claims. That is just the engineer in me.

Next I Would like to understand how they organized it. I have my own thoughts and experiences how very large (technical) organizations work, so this is more of a professional interest if you like to understand what happened here.

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Old 25th September 2015, 13:26   #255
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Hello everyone,
I have already booked a polo gt tsi . Now I'm really worried how my ownership experience would be like given that VW has to cough up so much money. What would you do if you were in my situation?
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