Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP Worldwide > The International Automotive Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th September 2015, 06:00   #286
BHPian
 
johannskaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MH 03 / KL 08
Posts: 596
Thanked: 1,123 Times
Default

And some more bad news coming in for VW group...
Attached Thumbnails
VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-1443227373712.jpg  

VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-1443227391455.jpg  

johannskaria is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 10:23   #287
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 6,637
Thanked: 3,050 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I am surprised esp since CH is one land where Diesel is costlier that Petrol. But things do happen, and I am sure there estimates should be correct - after all they are Swiss!
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 11:15   #288
Senior - BHPian
 
itwasntme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: BANGALORE
Posts: 1,835
Thanked: 867 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

From The Guardian :-)
Attached Thumbnails
VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-2400.jpg  

itwasntme is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 11:19   #289
BHPian
 
msprabhakar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 262
Thanked: 70 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Among all the din and mud-slinging at VW and diesel, I came across a rare contrarian article on how despite Volkswagen cheat, clean diesel is good technology today and for the future.

I really appreciate the author's courage to put real facts about diesel technology (at a time like this) to give a balanced view. I was specially surprised by the ground-breaking e-Diesel and e-Ethanol technologies on the horizon (given right towards the end of the article).
msprabhakar is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 14:45   #290
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,111
Thanked: 1,223 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post

Isn't this also be seen as a failure of testing agencies which are so much poorly designed and implemented that they can't test a car as per real world driving conditions? We know reality of various Indian car testing scenes but this was amusing to see American test setup failing in catching cars with such big flaws and now news coming from European agencies. I don't understand whats the sense of having such useless test setups when they are not able to catch the flaws until those are pointed by some outsiders.

Strangely no one is raising question on the testing agencies and their accountability.
You improve the testing, there's always ways to escape those. Tomorrow, instead of using steering and rear wheel sensors. Someone can use induction current and weight sensors to find out if a test is being conducted. That's not the point here. I feel that in addition to being unethical, VW has been extremely stupid in doing what they have done. It was only a matter of time before someone found this out. It's such a grave crime that their reputation will go for a toss with the environmental conscious governments. And without their trust, it's going to make their future really really difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post

All that may, of course, totally change, if governments say that those cars have to be taken off the road unless and until fixed. If VW (etc?) could not make the cars legal before, how will they do it now?
Yes, and how are they going to maintain advertised power, torque and mileage figures without compromising on emission standards? If they were not able to do it earlier, they won't be able to do it even now unless if they use some expensive technology. And whatever expensive technology they use, they will have to multiply that by 1 crore ( approximately, the number of cars affected )

Quote:
Originally Posted by msprabhakar View Post
Among all the din and mud-slinging at VW and diesel, I came across a rare contrarian article on how despite Volkswagen cheat, clean diesel is good technology today and for the future.

I really appreciate the author's courage to put real facts about diesel technology (at a time like this) to give a balanced view. I was specially surprised by the ground-breaking e-Diesel and e-Ethanol technologies on the horizon (given right towards the end of the article).
Nice one. :-)
amalji is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 15:20   #291
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi-NCR
Posts: 552
Thanked: 2,035 Times
Default Re: The Official Joke thread

Folks I am not as wired up on automobiles so would be grateful if someone could shed light on how the tests showed that the VW cars were 10X, 20X off the required limits. This is a genuine question. 20X - wouldn't that be worse than the worst autorickshaw in India or like a 1975 diesel truck chugging along belching black smoke? I would have thought that given that these are basically modern well designed engines they would be within 15% or 25% off the mark and VW cheated to fill that gap. But 10X sounds hard to visualize. Also maybe we need to see what results did this same laboratory come up with for other makes ie is there a gauge R&R issue here.
V.Narayan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 16:37   #292
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 49
Thanked: 30 Times
Default Re: The Official Joke thread

What exactly does this mean to the VW (and/or sister brands) products?

1> Present - Are they allowed to continue selling their products since Indian market has not investigated or even raised this matter? If Yes, are they offering any discounts to clear off their inventory?

2> Past - What does it mean for the existing VW customers? Again, since the concerned body in India hasn't issued any investigation yet, I believe there shouldn't be any recalls or other implications involved. But in the resale market, doe this cause a hit to their value?

3> Future - Finally, with this fiasco, would the future products now take the slow-lane?

Last edited by DevendraG : 26th September 2015 at 16:38. Reason: Incorrect spelling
DevendraG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 16:37   #293
BHPian
 
msprabhakar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 262
Thanked: 70 Times
Default Re: VW CEO Martin Winterkorn resigns!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavericK46 View Post
All the news articles I've read surrounding this fail to mention a certain someone who has the cojones and the experience to drag VW out of this muck - Ferdinand Piech.

Yes, he was ousted by Winterkorn and the board...

But for someone who has time and again been responsible for ground-breaking engineering projects such as The Porsche 917, The Bugatti Veyron or the VW XL1, IMO he's the man VW need to turn to.

Am keen to know what my fellow T-BHPians think about this prospect.

Cheers !

Sundar
I'm a fan of Ferdinand Pich, too. But I think we should trust VW board and the new CEO Matthias Mller to turn around VW as transparently and aggressively as Ferdinand Pich did during his best days.

I was reading the book, "Getting the Bugs Out: The Rise, Fall, and Comeback of Volkswagen in America" by David Kiley (John Wiley & Sons, Inc.) to compare the situation VW faced earlier in the '90s with the current situation. This is an amazing book and a must-read for all well-wishers of VW.

A few excerpts:

Chapter 2 (Sins of the Fathers, page 58):
"...In 1996, VW published a 1,000-page study: The Volkswagen Factory and Its Workers in the Third Reich. Many were surprised that VW, under Ferdinand Pich, would undertake such a project. By the early 1990s, however, when Pich took over, his predecessors had embarked on several efforts to confront the companys past. To reverse those efforts would have been public relations suicide. In 1996, as the study was released and more lawsuits were filed seeking reparations, the media in the United States and Europe continued to run stories with graphics of a VW logo intertwined with a Nazi swastika. Both CNN and NBC televised graphics showing the VW logo and swastika intertwined in 1996 and 1999 broadcasts. The company was either going to get in front of the issue once and for all, or endure such hideous images dogging its recovery for the foreseeable future. Publishing the report and being open about the past were the smart things to do..."

Chapter 9 (The Prince, page 249, 250):
"...Visionary. Conceited aristocrat. Obsessive. Driven to extremes. Dangerous. Ultrafocused. Chauvinist. Rottweiler of the motor world. Belligerent street fighter. All are possible descriptions of Dr Ferdinand Pich. Known by many. Familiar to very few. Friendly to fewer still. He is obstinate, frustrating, dismissive, perhaps, but he is also like no other auto executive of his era..."

"...Pich is passionate about cars, like few auto chieftains left in the global industry. Unlike the leaders of General Motors and Toyota, he has little interest in building a great diversified company of automotive and financial/communications services. He likes automobiles. In fact, he loves automobiles. He is obsessed with cars. He wants VW to lead the world in designing and building automobiles while he is still alive to see it. He is satisfied to let other automakers diversify into communications and financial services. He can design, engineer, and, if pressed, assemble a car himself. He can work the tools himself. He can drive a car or listen to an engine like a mechanic and tell the engineer working for him what is wrong with it, why it wont work, and how it can be improved. He knows when a product design isnt right for the market, or when the brakes being procured are wrong. It is unthinkable under Pichs watch that VW would bring a truly poor design to the marketplace. When he sees a company, a factory, a brand he wants to add to the VW portfolio, he buys it. Does he care what the shareholders think? No. Nor does he ever seem worried about paying too much. He pays what he must to get what he wants. Does he ever worry about getting fired? Not bloody likely. His net worth is pegged at well over $1 billion, depending on the condition of the financial markets. Ask him what philosophy or system of management he subscribes to, and hell tell you: Mine"...
msprabhakar is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 16:38   #294
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 6,637
Thanked: 3,050 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

@mrprabhakar; I agree with the virtues of diesel, but cheaters are not welcome. The new CEO is from Porsche, which is probably the only part of the VW empire which i not tainted.
sgiitk is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 17:10   #295
BHPian
 
msprabhakar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 262
Thanked: 70 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
...cheaters are not welcome. The new CEO is from Porsche, which is probably the only part of the VW empire which i not tainted...
Are you the guardian angel of VW who "knows" who is tainted and who is not?

"In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity."
-Hunter S. Thompson
msprabhakar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 18:09   #296
BHPian
 
autoskooll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bombay, Poona
Posts: 60
Thanked: 25 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I've been keeping a close watch on how this entire fiasco with VW has been unfolding over the past couple of days. These are extremely grim times for car manufacturers, particularly with respect to Diesel technology. I was of the opinion that Diesel cars account for a large number in sales globally. I always saw Diesel as a crude fuel that pollutes, but over time have come to convince myself that they offer a lot of benefits and Diesel engines are now cleaner to run than ever before. I however strongly believe that these benefits should not be enjoyed at the cost of the environment. I took the plunge hesitantly 3 years ago, with a Skoda Yeti, which is powered by the Engine in question, Model:EA 189 also known as the 2.0 TDi, used extensively across VW's portfolio of models. I used to be a proud owner of a VW group product and feel very bad now with the recent turn of events because even though I am not directly responsible in anyway, I and many others like me have unknowingly been responsible for higher emissions. I'm not sure if the Indian authorities are even going to order an investigation. Our market like Europe is Diesel driven. The authorities should discourage any technology which is in anyway going to put the health of people and the environment at stake. I feel that VW did this in order to boost sales, particularly in emerging markets and this would help them knock Toyota off the top spot as the worlds largest car manufacturer. In my opinion, it is the work of a few a few people in the company who were responsible for this disaster and everyone at VW can't be blamed for it. Lets face it, VW is a brand that has been loved the world over for close to 7 decades and I'm sure that a turn around is possible, like they have done in the past with marques like Škoda, Lamborghini and even Bugatti. This depends entirely on how they are going to handle this crisis in the coming few months. It will certainly be a Herculean task to win back the trust of millions.

Last edited by autoskooll : 26th September 2015 at 18:34.
autoskooll is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 18:43   #297
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,127
Thanked: 649 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I think this will be bigger than VW in the sense that the diesel engine is going to have win back trust, if it can do so.
Sawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 19:08   #298
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RavenAvi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Flying Around
Posts: 4,100
Thanked: 16,378 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen has issued a statement confirming that no less than 5 million cars, out of the 11 million affected, are Volkswagen cars.

Quote:
In a statement, the firm said: "The internal evaluation revealed that approximately five million Volkswagen Passenger Cars brand vehicles are affected worldwide. Certain models and model years of these vehicles (such as the sixth generation Volkswagen Golf, the seventh generation Volkswagen Passat and the first generation Volkswagen Tiguan) are equipped exclusively with type EA189 diesel engines.

"As previously announced, all new Volkswagen Passenger Car brand vehicles that fulfill the EU6 norm valid throughout Europe are not affected. This therefore also includes the current Golf, Passat and Touran models."

Although VW has not stated which of its other brands has cars caught up in the scandal, it is widely expected to be Audi, Seat and Skoda, all of which sold cars equipped with the EA189 diesel engine at the centre of the emissions storm.

To date, it has only been confirmed that 480,000 VWs will be recalled in the USA.
ACI
RavenAvi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 20:37   #299
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,215
Thanked: 598 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by msprabhakar View Post
Among all the din and mud-slinging at VW and diesel, I came across a rare contrarian article on how despite Volkswagen cheat, clean diesel is good technology today and for the future.
I read the article and to me the author sounds like a diesel apologist. However, credit to him, he very factually gives the pros and cons.

I disagree with him on two points: 1. This scandal has put paid to the clean diesel myth in the U.S. It is going to be very hard for diesel to make a comeback in that country. Even in Europe, which was not averse to diesel, large cities like London and Paris are starting to realize why they have such a problem with smog and air quality. This scandal won't help, especially as the issue rolls over to Europe and skeletons start to tumble out of the closets of more carmakers: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...eeded-eu-limit

2. The VW incident shows how difficult it is to clean up diesel. The technology may exist but is it cost-effective in ultra competitive markets? VW showed us that for small cars like the Jetta and Golf it wasn't.
StarScream is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2015, 21:07   #300
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RavenAvi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Flying Around
Posts: 4,100
Thanked: 16,378 Times
Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

And now the bans begin!

Switzerland and the United States are the first two countries who have banned all sales of the Volkswagen Group's new diesel cars.

Quote:
Swiss authorities said Friday they had temporarily banned the sale of new Volkswagen brand diesel-engine models potentially equipped with software capable of tricking environmental tests.

Some 180,000 vehicles made by Volkswagen's Audi, Seat, Skoda and VW brands between 2009 and 2014 could be affected by the scandal, the Federal Roads Office said in a statement.

Models equipped with diesel engines of the type 1,2TDI, 1,6TDI and 2.0TDI may be fitted with software capable of tricking environmental tests, the government agency said.
Quote:
Volkswagen's new boss began trying to pull the embattled carmaker out of the wreckage of a pollution test rigging scandal Saturday, as the United States and Switzerland banned the sale of the group's new diesel cars.
ET Auto

ET Auto
RavenAvi is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Emission Monitoring Solution (EMO) to monitor Emission data in real time NPV Technical Stuff 1 3rd November 2015 21:28
OBD2(VAG-COM) cable + workshop manual saraf_suman Technical Stuff 13 10th October 2013 12:16
VAG-COM Setup needed! Akki_5 Technical Stuff 11 28th August 2010 02:43
cheap VAG-COM cables from Ebay? saraf_suman Modifications & Accessories 3 26th July 2008 02:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:13.

Copyright 2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks