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Old 27th September 2015, 20:17   #316
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post

They exceeded 40 times the limit which is around 4 times the limit allowed in India. So, if the defeat device was used in India, it would have exceeded the threshold even for India.

.
Considering the present level of Indian emission standards I think VW would not need a defeat device to pass the test here .Considering the fact that other manufacturers who dont have the technological resources of VW meeting the standards here easily.(however it will be a challenge for everybody to meet the higher standards like euro 6 even here)

I thought this was limited to the US market where the standards are the highest in the world . So i think 40 times has to be taken in that perspective
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Old 27th September 2015, 21:23   #317
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Pollution control tests are done on idle and not while driving. It's only during actual driving with load on the engine that this spike will be evident.
US emission tests are conducted on dyno which mimic kind of real driving conditions, though in sedate manner.
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Old 28th September 2015, 08:22   #318
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Angry re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Ooh, this gets exciting. Initial findings from the internal audit reveal:
  • Bosch warned VW back in 2007 itself that the 'cheat' software was meant only for internal testing, and not for regular use. The paper speculates that Bosch may have been gagged from going public on the matter by a confidentiality agreement.
  • A whistle-blower within VW tried to raise the alarm about this issue back in 2011.

Sources (in German, use Google or Bing translation):
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Old 28th September 2015, 09:16   #319
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Ooh, this gets exciting. Initial findings from the internal audit reveal:
  • Bosch warned VW back in 2007 itself that the 'cheat' software was meant only for internal testing, and not for regular use. The paper speculates that Bosch may have been gagged from going public on the matter by a confidentiality agreement.
  • A whistle-blower within VW tried to raise the alarm about this issue back in 2011.

Sources (in German, use Google or Bing translation):
VW's Ranbaxy moment... In hindsight, one wonders how any company can hope to hide deceptions of such scale involving suppliers and expecting employees to co-operate. There's a saying in Tamil: Like farting "silently" inside water...
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Old 28th September 2015, 13:22   #320
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

It looks like our Govt is ordering probe as well

http://overdrive.in/news/government-...sold-in-india/

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VW's Ranbaxy moment... In hindsight, one wonders how any company can hope to hide deceptions of such scale involving suppliers and expecting employees to co-operate. There's a saying in Tamil: Like farting "silently" inside water...
Err I never heard any such saying in Tamil :P
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Old 28th September 2015, 13:53   #321
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Err I never heard any such saying in Tamil :P
The saying in Tamil is: "Thanniril vitra kusu pola". What it means is under certain circumstances, it's impossible to keep a secret a secret. You may fart "silently" in water, but the bubbles will tell others what you are doing...
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Old 28th September 2015, 15:03   #322
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

The conduct of VW, to say the least, is despicable. The cars are built 'safe' and 'vault like' and on their own merit, with proper pollution control programme running, their cars would have done well on the road as well as in the market. There would have been some compromise by way of higher maintenance cost, lower torque/ mileage, which are manageable vis a vis the total loss of trust issue they are facing now. On looking at my VW, my friend's daughter who was on visit from US, mentioned that, in US only people who are 'loaded' go for VW . She further clarified to me that generally people whose children have completed schools, settled and people with no house mortgages etc. prefer VW. Others with financial liabilities in US prefer Toyota or Honda, according to her. Such VW fans may not have minded paying slightly higher initial investment and running costs of a VW. VW should have refrained from cheating the system. "Vinasa khale Vibhareeda bhuddi". I hope, by shear size, they will get out of this rut for sure.
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Old 28th September 2015, 17:02   #323
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW suspends officials from Porsche too. So, after Audi & VW itself, now another group company seems affected.

News article: http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/volks...report-1223843
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Old 28th September 2015, 17:06   #324
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Around 2.1 million Audi cars have the software which is at the center of the Volkswagen AG emissions scandal, an Audi AG spokesman said on Monday.

The spokesman was responding to a report in der Spiegel magazine saying 1.42 million of the Audi cars are in western Europe, while around 13,000 models are affected in the U.S.

The German government has set an Oct. 7 deadline for Volkswagen to present a plan for fixing manipulated cars, as international regulators work to on more stringent emissions tests for diesel-powered vehicles.


WSJ Article link
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Old 28th September 2015, 17:26   #325
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

It seems that the software came from Bosch with the rider that it was only for internal testing only, and not to be put into customer cars. This was conveniently ignored.
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Old 28th September 2015, 17:42   #326
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

It's not just Volkwagen, more car makers to turn offenders.

New European cars are spewing out on average 40 per cent more carbon dioxide than laboratory tests show, an environmental campaign group said on Monday, saying Volkswagen's rigging of emissions tests was only part of much wider cheating.

The new report from Transport & Environment (T&E), which works closely with the European Commission, said its data did not prove other carmakers were using such devices.

But it said the gap between lab results and road performance had grown for emissions of carbon dioxide, as well as nitrogen oxides, to such an extent that further investigation was needed to discover what carmakers were doing to mask CO2 emissions.

Their analysis found some new EU cars, including Mercedes, BMW and Peugeot vehicles, were using around 50 percent more fuel than manufacturers claimed.

"The Volkswagen scandal was just the tip of the iceberg," Greg Archer, clean vehicles manager at T&E, said, adding the CO2 gap costs a typical driver 450 euros ($504) per year.

Only Japan's Toyota would have met the industry's 2015 EU target of 130 grams of CO2 per kilometre (g/km) without exploiting test flexibilities, T&E said.

T&E's analysis is based on work with the International Council on Clean Transportation, which helped to expose Volkswagen in the United States.

The analysis found the gap between official test results for CO2 and the real world rose to 40 percent on average in 2014 from 8 percent in 2001 for EU cars.

For some models it was higher. Mercedes cars had an average gap between test and real-world performance of 48 percent and their new A, C and E class models more than 50 percent.

Source: Reuters

Last edited by Aditya : 30th September 2015 at 07:27. Reason: Adding source of information
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Old 28th September 2015, 18:20   #327
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

ARAI Starts Investigation into VW in India
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Old 28th September 2015, 19:36   #328
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

In all this, where do you think all this is going to end? I mean, they will get fined etc and they will pay up. But the damage is done right? Perhaps force VW to clean up the atmosphere?
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Old 28th September 2015, 20:21   #329
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by HolyDriver View Post
ARAI Starts Investigation into VW in India
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Not sure if this has been asked before. Apologies!

Will the end user, the consumer gain anything from this whole scandal. The reason being VW cars will lose resale in developed countries who are serious about CO2 emissions. In India as well, perceptions change very fast and might have a cascading effect. VW should pay up.
What do you guys think?
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Old 28th September 2015, 21:15   #330
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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... VW should pay up.
What do you guys think?
This will definitely happen in the US with all those class action suites lined up against VW. But I very much doubt if that is going to happen in India, unless the Government takes a strict stand on the issue!
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