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Old 1st October 2015, 19:28   #391
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Not at all surprised. All were having their trotters in the same trough by the looks of it. As for a comment about the renault and the Nissan they are the same stable. Any news about the ubiquitous FIAT origin Multijet?
Even fiat seems to be exceeding as per the test. Here is the article - http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ons-tests-show http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ons-tests-show

Pasting the comparison chart below. The number shows "by what number of times, these vehicles are exceeding the threshold."

PS: vehicles which exceeded by less than 2 times is not mentioned in that chart.

VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-screenshot_20151001192413.png
VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-screenshot_20151001192421.png

Last edited by amalji : 1st October 2015 at 19:30.
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Old 1st October 2015, 19:51   #392
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I dont think Adac testing is of any added value. I remember reading a article in autoexpress years ago where they tested a Ford Petrol vehicle and found that real driving conditions create more pollutants than testing ones. There is no surprise in that and dont think car makers would be least worried about these tests.

If VW had to use Adblu for even their small diesel engines, they were not that great as a diesel engine manufacturer. In U.S, TDI cars have lost more than half their value. What if people dont like their cars and also can get only half the value even if they sell? Who pays?

Really happy about BMW on how their engines have performed in tests.

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Old 1st October 2015, 20:07   #393
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet. VW (as would most companies, I think) always will try to arm-twist any opposition or recommendation that could be perceived to be a threat to the company by various methods.

Here's how they spent two years trying to hide a BIG security flaw instead of fixing it.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-security-flaw

So, for all the "I'm innocent, look at my puppy face, please let us go easy" It's worth remembering that this is a mega corporation who like most capitalistic corporation will do whatever they can and it takes to ensure that their EPS (Earnings per share) is protected.

Governments & strong enforcement of laws / justice systems are usually the only ones that can hurt VW where it hurts the most - Fines. Billions of dollars of fines. Hits EPS, the very core they were trying to preserve.
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Old 1st October 2015, 20:18   #394
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen UK has announced some numbers - - 5,08,276 VW-branded diesels are affected, but VW cars powered by gasoline, V6 TDI & V8 TDI are NOT equipped with the cheat device.

This gives the group's power brand Porsche a clean chit in the UK.

Quote:
There's finally some good news coming from VW as they say all of the gasoline-powered cars are ok as well as the larger models from the group that come with the V6 TDI and V8 TDI motors.

This means Porsche is not involved in the ongoing dieselgate as none of their models were offered with the controversial Euro 5-compliant EA189 engine that has a special software developed with the sole purpose of lowering emissions during official testing.
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Old 1st October 2015, 22:23   #395
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Is there any mention that Indian VW group cars are also affected by this ?

Last edited by amvj : 1st October 2015 at 22:25.
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Old 1st October 2015, 23:07   #396
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by Ashokkp View Post
...It smells like the Concorde vs Boeing, if Concorde had been Boeing made they would have been everywhere
Ah, Concorde? Generally, older gen guys say to new gen kids, like, "back in old days we had abacus and you kids have laptops, we had steam locomotives and you have bullet trains," etc. etc.

Well, exception is, a 70 year Brit would tell his grand kids today, "we used to cross Atlantic in 2 and a half hour in 80s (courtesy Concorde) and now you kids take 8 hours." Talk about advancement. But yes, it is surprising why Brits pulled the plug on Concorde? Just one crash and they gave up. This one incident is everything that is wrong with this country, UK. One by one all their cars are gone.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 01:50   #397
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-vw2.jpg

Autoblog article link
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Old 2nd October 2015, 08:11   #398
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Update: Audi also confirms emission "cheating-software" scandal. The diesel vehicles especially "common rail" engines manipulated with this software not only affects the external environment but also the driver and passengers inside the car of risk of high NOx intakes. NOx emissions increase directly proportional to the injection pressure of the fuel, which is very high in case of common rail injection. The models concerned were the A1, A3, A4, A6, Q3, Q5 and also the TT, the spokesman said. ..

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/49137715.cms
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Old 2nd October 2015, 08:19   #399
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Default After VW its BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Peugeot, Renault, Mazda, Fiat, Ford, Nissan and Jeep

Massive levels of pollution are being emitted by diesel vehicles built by a wide range of carmakers, according to tests carried out by one of the world’s biggest independent motoring organisations.

The findings are a further blow to the car industry already reeling from revelations that Volkswagen fitted vehicles with software that deceived US regulators about pollution from their diesel engines.

According to the German motoring organisation Adac, the Volvo S60, Renault’s Espace Energy and the Jeep Renegade all exceeded legal European emission limits for nitrogen oxide (NOx) by more than 10 times.

It also found that the Nissan-made X-Trail produced 14 times more than permitted, although Nissan insisted Adac had tested the wrong car.

Adac, the world’s second-biggest motoring organisation, used a strict new emissions standard that will not come into force in Europe for another two years.

The findings reveal that the car emissions scandal extends far beyond Volkswagen and encompasses many other manufacturers including Mercedes, BMW, Mazda, Fiat, Ford and Peugeot.

Consumers will be alarmed that many popular models are involved although, unlike VW, there is no suggestion that any of the other manufacturers have employed devices to cheat the testing regime.

Instead the results highlight the shocking inadequacy of the EU testing regime. Manufacturers, including Nissan, Hyundai and Renault, said that they had abided by the rules. Studies show that rising levels of car pollutants are killing thousands of Britons every year.

There has been widespread criticism of the EU’s lax current emissions standards and testing regime, known as the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC). All diesel car manufacturers have managed to meet this requirement. However, it is widely accepted that the “real-world” NOx emissions of diesel passenger cars are substantially higher than the certified limits.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a6674386.html

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Old 2nd October 2015, 09:52   #400
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Japanese have their own ways to answer German competition!

Read the article "This Japanese Emissions Equipment Maker Humbled Mighty VW"
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 2nd October 2015, 10:40   #401
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Default Re: After VW its BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Peugeot, Renault, Mazda, Fiat, Ford, Nissan and Jeep

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Massive levels of pollution are being emitted by diesel vehicles built by a wide range of carmakers, according to tests carried out by one of the world’s biggest independent motoring organisations.
I was totally expecting this.

Thinking Diesel is "clean" was very naive in the first place. I know a lot of people defend diesel saying it gives more mpg. But, it also releases a lot of particulate matter.. what about that?

Petrol and Diesel both cause pollution. Its also important to maintain the vehicle and follow service intervals to make sure you are not hurting the environment even further.

Now, the challenge for Diesel cars is even mint condition pieces rolling out of assembly lines are multiple times polluting that what is expected of them!!

We as consumers can blame the system and manufacturers, but its also for us to make an informed decision and move to a better and cleaner technology.

OT and speculative
This is bigger than what was thought earlier. I won't be surprised if Bosch, Honeywell, Siemens, Fujitsu etc. of the world are dragged into this.

Last edited by freedom : 2nd October 2015 at 10:43.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 12:28   #402
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Reuter reports

Staring to feel bad for VW.
They are an excellent automotive company but hope they could survive the onslaught and still keep building.
It looks difficult. Hopefully their Indian investments and expansion plans are not affected.
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VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-screenshot_20151002123311.png  


Last edited by johannskaria : 2nd October 2015 at 12:36.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 14:24   #403
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
The lecturer told us that, at a certain multi-national car company, any production-line change costing more than 20 cents per vehicle had to get board-meeting approval. After giving us all a chance to react, he reminded us how many millions of cars they made.

That usually happens because of a potential copyright infringement. If VW has indeed patented a design, and BMW tries something similar, they should ensure that it is unique to their car and does not involve crossing some patent borders. So the OEM has to get all changes verified, legally consulted and approved by the board to close all loopholes concerning a potential change before SORP. Added to that, if its a part that is a part of the BIW, then the changes have to simulated/tested for crash/NVH/durability/Fatigue before its given a green signal to change the tooling/machine and then finally a green signal to enter production. And if its a component within the engine, there are literally millions of parameters could be copyrighted and yet can be replicated. Software parts are the easiest to copyright. But once found out, can cost the company millions. Take cue VW.

But what you say is true. The OEMs stand to make millions.

Last edited by VaidhiR : 2nd October 2015 at 14:46.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 15:09   #404
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by johannskaria View Post
According to the German motoring organisation Adac, the Volvo S60, Renault’s Espace Energy and the Jeep Renegade all exceeded legal European emission limits for nitrogen oxide (NOx) by more than 10 times.

It also found that the Nissan-made X-Trail produced 14 times more than permitted
Does anyone else find it interesting that the German Adac finds fault with a Chinese Volvo, French Renault, American Jeep & Japanese Nissan? They've not left out the Koreans & Italians either, according to this report .
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Old 2nd October 2015, 15:27   #405
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Perusing the UK news yesterday (keeping in touch with native place ) I see that VW continued to sell the affected engines there even after USA news broke.

And then there was something that, when I saw the headline, I thought would be a joke: Samsung TVs use more energy in real life that in testing. Seems it's not a joke at all, and these cheating devices might be fitted to other things than cars!

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 2nd October 2015 at 15:31.
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