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Old 7th October 2015, 13:05   #481
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW to recall affected cars in January.

First cars to be recalled in January, with VW promising to have all cars fixed by the end of 2016.

Quote:
Müller said that all cars affected by the scandal would be fixed by the end of next year. Yesterday, Müller confirmed a technical fix for the affected cars was close to being approved. He said that some models will only require a software fix, whereas others will need software and hardware updates.
Quote:
Our most important task will be to regain lost confidence with our customers, partners, investors and the general public. The first step in this direction will be a fast and relentless examination and explanation. Only when everything comes to the table, only when things are completely explained, only then will people trust us again.
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I too am impatient. But in this situation, in which we are dealing with four brands and many models, care is more important than speed.
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ry-397941.aspx

Last edited by volkman10 : 7th October 2015 at 13:07.
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Old 8th October 2015, 10:27   #482
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Korea numbers are out - as many as 1,20,000 diesel Volkswagen cars are to be recalled.

Quote:
Volkswagen issued a public apology in South Korea on Thursday over its global pollution-cheating scam, vowing to consider a voluntary recall in the country.

"I sincerely apologize over betraying customers' trust", Volkswagen Korea President Thomas Kuehl said in a newspaper advertisement.

South Korean government officials said last week Volkswagen planned to recall as many as 120,000 diesel cars sold in the country as part of its worldwide response to the damaging scandal.
ET Auto


Also, Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz has issued a statement that the Bosch engine management system (EDC17) used in it's diesel cars are not fitted with any sort of cheat software.

Quote:
A popular diesel engine management program used by several top automakers, including Volkswagen AG, was not pre-programmed to detect when a vehicle was undergoing laboratory emissions testing, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and a former EPA official.

Instead, VW had the engine software modified to turn on the vehicle's emission control system when it was being tested in the lab, on a rolling test bed called a dynamometer, then turn it off when the vehicle was on the road, the EPA said.

Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz, which uses the same engine management system made by German supplier Robert Bosch GmbH, said late Tuesday that its diesel cars "are not fitted with software that can tell that the vehicle is on a test rig."

BMW AG, also a customer of Bosch's engine software, said on Wednesday that its emissions control systems are active both on the test bench and on the road.

Volkswagen has acknowledged that it modified the engine software to circumvent U.S. emissions standards.
ET Auto
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Old 8th October 2015, 14:42   #483
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Smaller capacity Volkswagen diesel engines won't have a ready fix for the emissions problem anytime soon (read: before 2017), according to Germany's transport minister Alexander Dobrindt.

Quote:
Dobrindt says VW said the 2-liter engines will need a software update that should be ready before the year's end and be installed from the beginning of 2016.

He says 1.6-liter vehicles will need "an engineering modification that according to Volkswagen shouldn't be expected before September 2016."

The minister says there are some 3.6 million 1.6-liter cars in Europe. He didn't say what fix 1.2-liter cars will require.
ET Auto


Volkswagen's US head Michael Horn has admitted that he knew about a potential problem with vehicle emissions from as early as spring 2014.

Quote:
In testimony released ahead of his hearing with the House energy committee, Michael Horn offered a "sincere apology" for Volkswagen's use of a software program "that served to defeat the regular emissions testing regime."

He also admitted he was made aware of "a possible emissions non-compliance" in early 2014 after researchers at the University of West Virginia found that the cars affected released up to 40 times as much nitrogen oxide than was legally permissible.

Horn said he was also told by his staff at that time that US authorities could conduct tests for so-called "defeat devices", which release lower levels of emissions under testing.
ET Auto


Volkswagen US's customers might not bring their cars in for the proposed technological changes when the official recall is issued!

Quote:
The cars, some 482,000 Passats, Golfs and Jettas sold in model years 2009 to 2015 in the United States, are peppy and fun to drive, owners say.

Because fixing the cars is likely to result in lower performance and fuel economy, some drivers will decline, even though their cars would continue to spew 40 times the smog-producing emissions permitted by some states. If they do, there are few enforcement levers in place.

In the three states with the most VW diesel cars caught up in the emissions scandal, only California withholds registration renewals from cars that fail to comply with recalls.

In Texas and Florida, which have the second- and third-highest number of VW diesels after California, there are no emission standards in place for diesel vehicles.


Texas doesn't include diesel vehicles in its emission inspection program and Florida no longer has a vehicle emission inspection program, EPA said. It isn't known how many other states don't require vehicles to pass emissions tests.
ET Auto
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Old 8th October 2015, 17:43   #484
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
...VW needs to face the law for false-advertising & wrongly manipulating governmental tests to get approval without deserving it... and let the judgement be such that no other auto-maker would think of tweaking their vehicles fraudulently, again...
Well said... ENERGY & COMMERCE COMMITTEE of UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES is all set to grill Michael Horn, President and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America at 10 a.m. (Eastern Time) [that is, 7:30 PM IST] today (08-Oct-2015). See complete details of the hearing and documents submitted prior to hearing at their web site here. Watch the live video proceedings from 7:30 PM IST onwards here:
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Old 8th October 2015, 20:01   #485
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW cheat software was switched on in Europe - 8 million diesel vehicles in the European Union were fitted with software capable of cheating vehicle emissions tests.

The 11 million vehicles with engines that carry the software capable of cheating emissions tests include 5 million at VW brand, 2.1 million at Audi, 1.2 million at Skoda, 700,000 at Seat and 1.8 million light commercial vehicles.

VW had made clear in a "comprehensive report" sent to Germany's Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA) that Euro 5 diesel engines in the 2.0-, 1.6- and 1.2-liter category would require adjustments.

Quote:
For the 2.0-liter engines, VW is saying that a software solution will be ready this year and will then be implemented from the start of next year
Quote:
With the 1.6-liter engines, in addition to new software, engine changes will be necessary, which according to Volkswagen won't be ready before September 2016."
Quote:
Most cars probably only need software reprogramming that can be done at a local service outlet, though some will need new injector systems or some rebuilding at special workshops to install larger catalytic converters
Replacing cars will be considered in "particular cases
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...pe-report-says

Last edited by volkman10 : 8th October 2015 at 20:04.
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Old 8th October 2015, 20:52   #486
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Earlier today, German police and prosecutors conducted a raid on Volkswagen's headquarters and other offices in Berlin as a part of their ongoing official investigation into the emissions-rigging scandal.

Quote:
Prosecutors from Braunschweig, close to the German company's home town of Wolfsburg, said they were targeting documents and data storage devices that might help with their inquiries.

Volkswagen said it was supporting the investigation and had handed over a "comprehensive" range of documents.

The biggest business crisis in Volkswagen's 78-year history has wiped more than a third off its share price, forced out its long-time chief executive, prompted investigations across the world and rocked both the car industry and German establishment.

Later on Thursday, the company's top U.S. executive will tell a panel of U.S. lawmakers he knew the carmaker might be breaking U.S. emissions rules as long as 18 months before it admitted cheating diesel tests to regulators.
ET Auto
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Old 8th October 2015, 23:15   #487
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Earlier today, German police and prosecutors conducted a raid on Volkswagen's headquarters and other offices in Berlin as a part of their ongoing official investigation into the emissions-rigging scandal.
Amusing, reminds me of a song from Megadeth called Symphony of Destruction, the lyrics go as such - "Just like the pied piper, led rats through the streets, we dance like the marionettes, swaying to the symphony of destruction". It speaks largely of the government & press feeding information the way they want to and the public dancing to it like marionettes on a string.

The way I see it, no government will ever be ignorant of anything happening under their regime, approvals are taken by paper-pushing in exchange for co-operation/funding/special agreements. This system is not new to any country. I find it amusing that the minute U.S raises an alarm all countries go berserk pretending that they had missed the signals in neon. Same thing with FBI & FIFA. Police & prosecutors going to VW office? Really?

Then what is this - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ions-test.html

Quote:
The German Green Party claimed Angela Merkel’s government admitted that it knew about VW’s test rigging software in an answer to a parliamentary question in July. The government told us in July that it knew about this software, which has been used in the USA, and it’s clear they knew the software was widely in use,” Oliver Krischer, the deputy leader of the Greens told N24 television. “It is surprising to see how Mr Dobrindt acts shocked at the news in recent days, when in July he was very well informed about the situation,” Mr Krischer said. The VW emissions scandal is the result of a policy in which environmental and consumer protection are no longer important, and tricks and deceits are accepted with a wink.
Police barging into VW offices with warrants & guns to prove an already officially admitted deceit is about as hilarious as possibly the most hands-on, micro-management oriented, fastidious ex-boss of VW Martin Winterkorn claiming absolute ignorance of such software. Ostrich Syndrome much?
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Old 9th October 2015, 01:15   #488
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

As per CNBC article Volkswagen resale prices drop 13 percent http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/07/volks...3-percent.html

Used Volkswagen diesel prices fell 13 percent, according to Kelley Blue Book's auction data. This decline occurred in the two weeks following the German automaker's announcement that the company was, in fact, cheating on emissions tests.


Kelley Blue Book analyst Tim Fleming said in an email that while used car values typically decline in the fall, the large price drop on Volkswagen diesels stands out. Fleming added that even though the comparable gas-powered models haven't seen as steep of a decline in resale value, they could take a bigger hit if the negative response toward Volkswagen goes beyond just the diesel market. ...
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Old 9th October 2015, 02:00   #489
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I have a eerie feeling this could be the end of an era of Volkswagen. They are big but what they are facing is bigger.

There is another article that also states majority users of VW in US are in Texas, Florida and CA.

Florida does not have emission law. So one doesnt have to even go through the recall.

Texas does not mandate the EPA.

Only california will require re-registration post EPA mandate. Lets see how these things turn out where few owners have responded to not even take it to the recall centre unless there is no other way and these buy backs and cash backs may not attract owners to even return the vehicle for newer models with better emission control package.

2016 diesel vehicles are potentially not going on sale in the US till this is cleared.

May be we will finally in India see Jetta at sub 15L
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Old 9th October 2015, 07:24   #490
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VW Claims Rogue Engineers Responsible

So has the spin doctoring started, or is this true?
Quote:
Volkwagen’s exhaust emissions scandal, which is set to cost the world’s biggest car maker billions of pounds, was caused by "a couple of software engineers" who did it for unknown reasons, Michael Horn, VW’s US chief executive has claimed.

Testifying before a congressional committee in Washington, DC, Mr Horn apologised and promised a full investigation. "This was not a corporate decision," he said, but something done by German software engineers. "I agree it’s hard to believe," he admitted when challenged by sceptical committee members.
VW's credibility is in tatters, so its no surprise that this explanation is being rejected:
Quote:
His claims came in for criticism. Chris Collins, a Republican representative from New York, said: "I categorically reject everything that VW is saying about a couple of rogue engineers. Either Volkswagen management is incompetent or they are complicit in a massive cover-up that is continuing today."
Amusingly:
Quote:
Mr Horn repeatedly stressed he didn’t know the carmaker had installed defeat devices until a few days before a meeting with US environmental regulators on 3 September.
Which flies in the face of various sources reporting that this issue has its origins in May 2014 (if not earlier).

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a6687201.html

Last edited by arunphilip : 9th October 2015 at 07:29.
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Old 9th October 2015, 07:40   #491
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

A group which does Car reviews did a dyno test of Jetta TDi to figure out how much extra power does it make on road & while the defeat device is in action.



The results are interesting
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Old 9th October 2015, 07:42   #492
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Volkswagen Australia confirms ‘dieselgate’ recall – confirms its figures.

Volkswagen Group Australia (VGA) today confirmed it would conduct a recall of vehicles fitted with the EA189 diesel engine at the centre of the ‘dieselgate’ furore. This makes VGA among the first regions confirm as much.

But owners of affected vehicles can’t yet head to their dealers to have the engines designed to cheat emissions tests adjusted, because a technical solution is not yet ready to roll, and may not be until next year.


Quote:
Affected VGA diesel vehicles include the following. No petrol cars are affected, and those diesel cars affected are safe to drive.

Volkswagen Passenger Cars – 61,189

Golf (2009-2013)
Polo (2009-2014)
Jetta (2010-2015)
Passat CC (2008-2012)
Volkswagen CC (2011-2015)
Passat (2008-2015)
Eos (2008-2014)
Tiguan (2008-2015)
Skoda – 5,148

Octavia (2009-2013)
Yeti (2011-2015)
Superb (2009-2015)
Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles – 17,256

Caddy (2010-2015)
Amarok (2011-2012)

New diesel Volkswagen Golf 7, Touareg, Amarok (post-2012), Transporter and Crafter models are currently listed as “not affected”. New diesel Skoda Octavia generation 3 models currently listed as “not affected
http://www.caradvice.com.au/387934/v...elgate-recall/

Last edited by volkman10 : 9th October 2015 at 07:43.
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Old 9th October 2015, 07:47   #493
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
The 11 million vehicles with engines that carry the software capable of cheating emissions tests include 5 million at VW brand, 2.1 million at Audi, 1.2 million at Skoda, 700,000 at Seat and 1.8 million light commercial vehicles.
I am not able to get my head around the fix that VW has planned for these recalled vehicles.

If the cheat software is taken off, these TDi cars will pollute less but at the cost of performance and fuel efficiency. Will customers be ready for that? Those who can, will sell and move on I guess. And might sue VW as then it becomes a false claim on performance and fuel efficiency.

The other option is a hardware fix. But this will be too costly and time consuming. Also, is there space in all these old cars to retrofit the required hardware like the adblue tank and other ancillaries. Will those be as effective to contain pollution as space restrictions will put massive constraints on the design?

Its not just reputation, money and time at stake. This is a very complex engineering problem too.

Last edited by deetjohn : 9th October 2015 at 07:50. Reason: typo.
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Old 9th October 2015, 08:05   #494
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Another Challenge for VW!

VW's U.S. recall could be thwarted by reluctant diesel owners!

Quote:
As Volkswagen prepares to explain how it might fix the polluting diesel cars that set off the biggest scandal in the German automaker's history, whatever solution it proposes could be undermined by some owners in the United States who won't bring their cars in for a recall and can't be forced to.

The cars, some 482,000 Passats, Golfs and Jettas sold in model years 2009 to 2015 in the United States, are peppy and fun to drive, owners say

Because fixing the cars is likely to result in lower performance and fuel economy, some drivers will decline, even though their cars would continue to spew 40 times the smog-producing emissions permitted by some states. If they do, there are few enforcement levers in place.
Quote:
In the three states with the most VW diesel cars caught up in the emissions scandal, only California withholds registration renewals from cars that fail to comply with recalls. In Texas and Florida, which have the second- and third-highest number of VW diesels after California, there are no emission standards in place for diesel vehicles.
Quote:
One VW car owner on the VWVortex website said that the automaker would have to wave "a big carrot" in front of their customers to get them to comply with the recall.

That could come in the form of loyalty programs, trade-ins, or cash incentives. VW late last week informed dealers it would offer "loyalty bonuses" of $2,000 for owners who want to trade in their cars.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...home-mostright

Last edited by volkman10 : 9th October 2015 at 08:09.
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Old 9th October 2015, 09:08   #495
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Volkwagen’s exhaust emissions scandal, which is set to cost the world’s biggest car maker billions of pounds, was caused by "a couple of software engineers" who did it for unknown reasons, Michael Horn, VW’s US chief executive has claimed.
First Post here! I am in-charge of emission development for an India based global OEM. This is purely passing the buck and there was no way the decision was taken by a couple of guys like me. There needs to be huge investment to develop such a logic and more importantly to make it fool proof.

Unfortunately , nothing big is going to come out of this scandal due to the time lag. No executive is likely going to get caught as the decisions taken in 2008 will be under scrutiny . Most data will be lost and it will be a big challenge to the investigators to pin the blame on any executive.
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