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Old 21st September 2015, 12:40   #46
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Yes VW has been caught cheating, hand in the cookie jar! Still, doesn't mean that we can't salvage anything from this debacle! Here's a really nice video depicting how Hitler reacts to the VW-EPA Scandal Dieselgate. Be that as it may, it's extremely disgusting to know that Germans would do this. Samsung was caught red-handed more than once last year as reviewers repeatedly discovered evidence that the company’s phones and tablets were artificially boosting benchmark scores. Really stupid how VW has taken a page out of Samsung.
Need to really get more specific details to understand the level of violation that VW has done. If they are using a completely different map for test conditions which actually reduces performance etc to give lower emission but the marketed performance spec leads to higher emissions then in my view this is certainly cheating.

We also need to watch and wait and see if any other manf has done the same as well. Incase of Samsung fudging the benchmark, it wasn't just them. Pretty much all top tier Android phone manf were doing the same. Infact Samsung was the 1st one to stop doing this and set a good example.
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Old 21st September 2015, 13:25   #47
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

The guy who developed this switch software should have been regarded as a genius within the company.
But still I wonder on how soon the software detected this as a standard test condition. EPA should now put tracks where real driving should be done to test the vehicles. The emissions under high load are much higher than the conditions that they are tested and this should already be factored in.
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Old 21st September 2015, 13:43   #48
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

What a shock?
This is from VW? This might be the case in Europe and other markets too. Things such as these would be done with the backing of the Board, definitely. I wonder what were they thinking off? Just shows their attitude towards the norms and the environment as a whole. What attitude should one expect towards the customers?
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Old 21st September 2015, 15:38   #49
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Years ago Honda had developed clean diesel engine without using the urea after treatment. They later abandoned it citing high cost for the catalytic converter. I was wondering on how VW could build clean diesels without any of the these and without any higher cost. Looks like this is how they did it.

Higher Nitrous oxides mean higher fuel efficiency, cooler and long lasting engines. VW had done it all just using a hack for convenient times !
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Old 21st September 2015, 15:53   #50
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Default Volkswagen shares plunge the most in six years on U.S. emission issue

The extent of the damage is difficult to gauge at the moment. This is the US of A, people love their lawsuits against major firms and hundreds of law firms will be salivating at the opportunity of settlements with the firm.

This must be one of the toughest spots VW has been in over recent time:

- Diminishing margins, especially the mothership VW models
- Struggling US operations
- The primary moneymaker China having a slowing car market

then now this.

At least all this puts the ugliness of the Bentley bentayga into perspective, whats tooth decay compared to a chronic ailment!!

Quote:
Shares in Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) plunged the most in almost six years in early Monday trading after U.S. authorities accused the German carmaker of falsifying emissions data, which means it could face penalties of up to $18 billion (12 billion pounds).

Europe's largest automaker is accused of designing software for diesel models of its core VW brand and luxury division Audi that deceives regulators measuring toxic emissions, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said on Friday.

VW shares fell 13 percent to 140.95 euros by 7.07 a.m. BT, the biggest one-day drop since November 2009.

The revelations have emerged just as VW was poised to shake off doubts about its leadership at a supervisory board meeting on Friday where it is aiming to take decisions on a new company structure and management lineup.
source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/0...0RL0JX20150921
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Old 21st September 2015, 18:21   #51
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

In a way I am happy that Maruti did not agree to use VW diesel engines here in India.
At least we will have different scandal to face (if at all).

On a lighter note VW may point to already polluted air for emission test failure, the way sometimes they point to bad fuel quality in India.
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Old 21st September 2015, 19:38   #52
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Looks like this has affected them big time.
They have taken a 16 billion dollar hit in valuation as their share price has taken a hammering. And it appears their woes could compound.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/49044133.cms
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Old 21st September 2015, 20:39   #53
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Looks like this has affected them big time.
They have taken a 16 billion dollar hit in valuation as their share price has taken a hammering. And it appears their woes could compound.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/49044133.cms
In all probability its deep-rooted in their corporate culture. Look at the harassment customers of Superbs with DQ200 gearbox have suffered over the years, and their apathetic response to the problem, vis-à-vis what they have adopted in other countries with stronger regulation. What was the VW response? Increase their lineup of DQ200 products with GT DSG TSI and Vento DSGs. And of course, in spite of warnings in the first page of many reviews, customers continue to lap them up

In India the regulation is not getting any stronger in any case. I don't expect any action here, similar to the stance they adopted when the DQ200 case broke out all over the world. In fact, we will probably get dumped a lot of Jetta's et al at tempting prices, now that they will face action across multiple countries, and find it difficult to sell their diesel inventory.

The more things change, the more they remain the same. Alas.
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Old 21st September 2015, 20:59   #54
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Looks like this has affected them big time.
They have taken a 16 billion dollar hit in valuation as their share price has taken a hammering. And it appears their woes could compound.
Rs. 1 lakh crore . That's like the market cap of Maruti Suzuki or Tata Motors!

It's a double whammy because we're currently talking about fines of $18 billion on VW.

VW was never satisfied with its position in the United States. This is only going to make things worse.
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Old 21st September 2015, 21:15   #55
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

UPDATE: Volkswagen to Stop Sales in US of Diesel Cars Involved in Recall

Quote:
Volkswagen said on Sunday that it would halt sales of cars in the United States equipped with the kind of diesel motors that had led regulators to accuse the German company of illegally installing software to evade standards for reducing smog.

John Schilling, a Volkswagen spokesman, said that the company would stop selling 2015 and 2016 Volkswagen and Audi models equipped with 4-cylinder turbo diesel engines, which the company has marketed as “clean diesel.” The company will also stop selling used cars that have the engines, Mr. Schilling said.
In terms of indicative sales volumes:
Quote:
Earlier this month, Volkswagen had said that 23 percent of new cars sold in August in the United States were diesels, or 7,400 vehicles.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/bu...call.html?_r=1
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Old 21st September 2015, 21:22   #56
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

If VW does this with Govt where there is some Checking , guess what they might be doing with Hp , Torque , Cubic capacity , Ground Clearance figures to fudge the customers.

I guess this is the most unethical group in Automobile business , same is been reflected in Customer care and after sales service where Skoda, VW, Porsche, Lamborghini customers have been taken for ride.

Now can this be a concidence unless management at group level could have a careless attitude towards customer empathy and bully with government tests.

We should stop buying products from VW stable.
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Old 21st September 2015, 21:23   #57
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Looks like I'm going to have to watch how this pans out pretty closely, UNFORTUNATE...yet true. Been 5 months since I got the 2015 Passat TDI over the Memorial Day weekend. The 47 MPG was relatively stable (if not stellar) performance definitely gifted me a lot of grins, until this happened..

Now that I've fallen victim to this deceit, my options are - quicksell, OR, see-this-thru-to-the-end. I am leaning towards the latter. That way, if things go south, VW and I (and several other VW fans) .... can part ways for life!

The Fabia continues to stay true to me, and I hope the Passat will too. But, that's just the heart talking...AGAIN!

Last edited by mempheS.D : 21st September 2015 at 21:30. Reason: hope
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Old 21st September 2015, 21:30   #58
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by mempheS.D View Post
Looks like I'm going to have to watch how this pans out pretty closely, UNFORTUNATE...yet true. Been 5 months since I got the 2015 Passat TDI over the Memorial Day weekend. The 47 MPG was relatively stable (if not stellar) performance definitely gifted me a lot of grins, until this happened..

Now that I've fallen victim to this deceit, my options are - quicksell, OR, see-this-thru-to-the-end. I am leaning towards the latter. That way, if things go south, VW and I (and several other VW fans) .... can part ways for life!

The Fabia continues to stay true to me, and I hoping the Passat will too. But, that's just the heart talking...AGAIN!
See it through to the end AND join the inevitable class action suit!
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Old 21st September 2015, 22:16   #59
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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The fact that software could be used to game the system was known ages ago, back then it was another VAG brand, Porsche. The reality is that emission norms are tested in conditions that have no relation to real world usage patterns, most tests suggest fuel economy ratings that are 40% more than what is realistically possible. Consumers should be compensated for the information about fuel economy that the EPA puts out.

The EPA is the same organization that dumped toxic waste into a river and being a typical government agency, no one was held responsible. The law is that cars that are sold in the USA have to be certified by the EPA and pass the standard emission test, the cars in question have and their emissions in real world usage will vary, only a government agency can convert their own stupidity into a humongous shakedown. How is this 18 billion figure calculated?

40 times the permissible level is hyperbole, that happens when you are stuck in a traffic jam with your air conditioning on and move about 2 km in an hour, I guess that is not how emissions are calculated.
Okay. Lets say the EPA is incompetent. Does that mean what Volkswagen did was okay? Unless VAG can claim that this is a witch-hunt and nothing like this really happened, all of the above is irrelevant, no? For instance, the EPA dumped toxic stuff into a river. Does that give us a license to do that?
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Old 21st September 2015, 22:28   #60
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Default re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Yes, I did read that, that's the relative easy part, although if you think it through it must be a bit more complicated as what EPA claims. How to detect the difference between being stationary in a traffic jam and idling the engine and the same on the dyno?
Also, I might be wrong but I'm not sure the steering wheel sensors are hooked up to the ECU. Part of the ABS, so probably some brake module, rather then then the ECU, but I might be wrong. (Never worked on steering wheel sensors yet)

Also, most states have regular mandatory emissions checks on cars. That's not a dyno. Requires to take various emission measurement with the engine running at differernt RPMs. NOt sure how that would/is effected.

So the car knows its on a dyno, but from there on how do you they get different values out of the ECU when it comes to emissions? Do they change engine settings or manipulate the output data? Also, if this is all done in the ECU who would have designed such functions? I believe most VW ECU's are Bosch? Are these standard functions, if not who designed and implemented them on the VW ECU's. Bosch? VW?

So the EPA 'explanation' doesnt really say anything at all. I'm sure the detailled insight will start popping up over the net soon.

BR Jeroen
Wondering if the EPAs test procedure is an automated fixed known cycle. Wouldnt be difficult to detect the sequence, which will also tell you when it has ended.

Regards
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