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Old 4th November 2015, 11:27   #601
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/03/v...missions-lied/

Oh boy! Now I'm starting to believe this might just be the end of the VW era. If even their petrol cars are affected, we are looking at devastating losses for the VW group.

Unnecessarily shot themselves in the foot big time!
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Old 4th November 2015, 13:10   #602
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

This just keep getting worse for VW.

We know the software update for the diesels will probably result is loss of efficiency and power, what will the rectification for the petrols result in?

I can already see VW resale prices crashing, however Skoda and Audi which are also affected by this problem seem to be going strong.
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Old 4th November 2015, 13:10   #603
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So Indian government has started taking actions...

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The Union government on Wednesday decided to issue showcause notice to global car manufacturer Volkswagen, after a government testing agency found significant variations in the emission levels of three models.

The three on-road models are

1. Volkswagen Jetta,
2. Audi A4 &
3. Volkswagen Vento.

Additional Secretary in the Heavy Industries Ministry Ambuj Sharma told PTI that the notice will be issued on Wednesday. This, after the Automotive Research Association of India found that three on-road models had showed a variation in their emission levels when compared to the data provided by the company during laboratory tests.

In India, the under-investigation VAG family EA 189 (1.2-litre, 1.5-litre, 1.6-litre, and 2.0-litre) TDI engine which had the defeat device software installed, is in application across the Volkswagen and Skoda range of cars in India, and even a number of Audi models. There wasn’t, however, any word of confirmation from Volkswagen or Skoda on the matter.

Indian Express article link

Live Mint article link

Last edited by johannskaria : 4th November 2015 at 13:27.
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Old 4th November 2015, 13:12   #604
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/03/v...missions-lied/

Oh boy! Now I'm starting to believe this might just be the end of the VW era. If even their petrol cars are affected, we are looking at devastating losses for the VW group.

Unnecessarily shot themselves in the foot big time!
Vehicle taxation in Europe is based on CO2 emissions.
Lawmakers and bureaucrats in Europe are going to be looking into this very closely, methinks. If CO2 emission numbers were misstated, then it could mean that the governments have a case to recover taxes retrospectively.

EDIT: See http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...-certification

Quote:
VW UK could pay back missing tax to government

Willis has promised that the VW Group will speak to Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs to discuss any tax payments on vehicles that may need to be made the wake of the dieselgate scandal. When asked if the firm had measures in place to compensate the Treasury for any revenues missed because of the defeat devices, Willis said, "I'm not sure there's any clear evidence that the CO2 emissions on these cars are different in the real world. But we can have a conversation downstream. The British taxpayer should not be out of pocket and if necessary, we will have a meeting with HMRC."
Man, this is getting worse as the days go by for VW, not better! Where is the bottom of the barrel?

Last edited by KiloAlpha : 4th November 2015 at 13:17.
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Old 4th November 2015, 14:23   #605
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Arrow Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

All reports mention about existence of "cheat / defeat device" software and major difference in emission with and without the same. But there is no clarity on the exact quantity of emission, under regular usage.

In India, having a defeat device or a cheat mode is not the only / main problem. "Is the exhaust gases under regular usage with-in local recommended regulation?" is the question.

If the emission of these cars (during regular usage) is within Bharath-stage-4 norms, then legally there should not be a problem for VW in India.
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Old 4th November 2015, 14:55   #606
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I believe VW now qualifies for future use in English teaching as an illustrated example of the 'Penny wise, Pound Foolish' adage (include equivalent examples in other languages as necessary).

The small matter not to be overlooked is the 'Penny' here was probably several hundred million dollars, but the 'Pound' as it may yet turn out, is the VW brand itself.

I just had a colleague say (in an absolutely unrelated discussion) "Company leadership know what they're doing". I couldn't suppress a chuckle
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Old 4th November 2015, 14:59   #607
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Default Volkswagen Reaffirms Chattanooga Investment Plans in US

U.S. remains one of the most important markets for Volkswagen

Chattanooga, Tenn./Wolfsburg, Germany, October 29, 2015 – The Volkswagen Group has reaffirmed its commitment to expanding its Chattanooga facility, where it plans on producing a newly developed midsize SUV for the U.S. market. As previously announced, the Group plans on a total investment of approximately $900 million in the production of a newly developed, seven-passenger SUV. In the state of Tennessee alone, Volkswagen Group anticipates a $600 million investment and creation of 2,000 additional jobs. Production of the new midsize SUV is scheduled to begin in Chattanooga toward the end of 2016.

“The United States continues to be one of the most important markets for Volkswagen, and our commitment to Chattanooga and the state of Tennessee is clear proof of that,” said Michael Horn, president and CEO, Volkswagen Group of America.

Volkswagen has already invested more than U.S. $1 billion in its factory in Tennessee. Currently, more than 2,400 employees work at the plant; this summer, the 500,000th U.S.-built Passat was built.

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/volkswa...estment-plans/
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Old 4th November 2015, 15:06   #608
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Default Re: Volkswagen Reaffirms Chattanooga Investment Plans in US

Looks like a desperate attempt to inject some positive news in the media to keep the share value from crashing. Volkswagen shares have been free falling since yesterday, when they admitted to cheating on the CO2 emission levels of the gasoline models too.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-business-live
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Old 4th November 2015, 16:27   #609
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Could it be that a previously hidden corporate culture is coming to light here? What a tragedy, if that is the case.
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Old 4th November 2015, 20:18   #610
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

going to bed yesterday night I had a pretty good feeling that my predictions that only the EA189 series engines cannot have the defeat device have been proven to be false. The inclusion of the engines in Porsche was not surprising, but I was surprised that the source was once again EPA. EPA does not do these tests in absolute secrecy and I am certain that VW was aware that more of their models are under scrutiny. Its strange that not only VW not confess, but they have gone on record saying that nothing is wrong with thier software in Porsche cars. EPA , however has rested its case with clear evidence of wrong doing.

Today , however is a new day and for the first time VW has admitted guilt before being shamed by America. I am certain that some test agency somewhere has identified that the petrol engines too are compromised and this has resulted in a very hasty declaration from VW. nothing is in certain terms- number of cars affected, reason for giving out the declaration, logic for the compensation amount set aside.

its not the end of the story. Yet I feel for VW here. Its not a problem of the company culture. There are hundreds of regulations which needs to be adhered to while making a car. They seem to have followed everyone of them, expect for those relating to emissions. What is likely to have happenend is that some smartass engineer would have under pressure created the code in 2008 to please winterkorn. It turns out to be a phenomenal success and nobody seems to care that rules have been broken.
Engine emission development teams are typically a close knit community using similar resources such as vehicle dynamometers. At some stage information spreads to a handful on engineers and they too try something similar. Nobody questions the defeat device as these are now fully operational in probably a couple of million cars. These get implemented a few times until sometime last year.

My prediction is that this scandal is far from over. EPA has made a list of allegations and starting today VW has started what will be the first of the many admissions of guilt. Right from the beginning I was certain that for VW this will be a fight for survival. It sure gets more murky now and for an industry where trust is paramount they dont seem to to be in a good position now.
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Old 4th November 2015, 21:39   #611
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Could it be that a previously hidden corporate culture is coming to light here?
Very true.

Whatever that is not detected, goes undetected and therefore not wrong.
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Old 4th November 2015, 22:25   #612
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Default Re: Volkswagen Reaffirms Chattanooga Investment Plans in US

This article seems almost comical because of its timing, the company is only coming to grips with what they should be doing for the existing customers and already they have jumped to the future.

The only thing they should be doing as of now is focussing on correcting the entire mess created by them in the form of tweaking emissions. I agree no business would like be in standstill no matter how big the crises are, but this is way too soon to report. So soon that most of the article can be misinterpreted as damage control, for eg. "This center will house all future projects for the North American market through a central location, enabling the company to quickly and efficiently implement market-specific changes to vehicles" & "we will work toward meeting the demands of our U.S. customers and regaining their trust in the Volkswagen brand" is this an admission of having not done the above 2 statements thus far, or do they mean by "market-specific changes" & "meeting the demands" that their tweaks will remain country-specific?

Let it be said that all vehicles pollute, like it or not. Diesels pollute even more so. VW's problem is in hiding behind bushes & pits giving vague incoherent answers to a rigging software rather than coming clean & sorting out the problems quickly. This is the worst time to be talking of demand & sales.

Last edited by dark.knight : 4th November 2015 at 22:27.
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Old 4th November 2015, 22:56   #613
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-capturevw.png

India has found cars of Volkswagen's local unit in violation of nitrogen oxide emissions norms, a senior government official said on Wednesday, adding to a widening global scandal at Europe's biggest carmaker.

The government has found significantly higher variation in some of Volkswagen's and sister brand Audi's diesel cars and has issued it a notice seeking an explanation, Ambuj Sharma, additional secretary in the ministry of heavy industries said.

Volkswagen has been asked to respond to the notice in 30 days

The company could be fined or asked to recall cars in India if found guilty of violating the emission norms. The government could also initiate criminal action if it's proved Volkswagen used defeat device to cheat tests for emissions, he said.

Volkswagen's India unit said in a statement it had received a notice from Automotive Research Association of India (ARAI), the country's testing agency that has been investigating whether its cars have flouted emission norms in the domestic market

Testing agency ARAI has found the diesel models of
Volkswagen Jetta ,
Volkswagen Vento ,
Volkswagen Polo and
Audi's A4 sedan
to be in violation of the local emission norms, Sharma said.

"ARAI found significant variation on higher side ... in on-road testing of Volkswagen cars," he said. "Normally three to four times higher than the limit is acceptable. This was higher than that."

He did not say how many vehicles in India might be affected.

Reuters link

Last edited by johannskaria : 4th November 2015 at 23:03.
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Old 4th November 2015, 23:01   #614
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Here's an interesting statement from Professor Andre Spicer at Cass Business School, about how trust in the car market will likely change as a result of this scandal. Emphasis added.
Quote:
Markets for complex products like cars run on trust – there is a huge imbalance of expertise between the engineers who build cars and the people who buy them. Consumers trust companies like VW to give them the best deal. That is why people buy their products. If this trust breaks down, customers could start see the organisation as untrustworthy.

The market for VWs could easily turn into what economists call ‘a market for lemons’ – that is a marketplace where there are huge imbalances of information and customers are routinely suspicious of what sellers have on offer. This suspicion is likely to spread to other brands as consumers start to treat technical details as reliable as the fanciful car advertisements seen on television: they might make us feel good, but they don’t describe reality.
Dwelling on the point of corporate culture that Thad and Chetan mentioned:
Quote:
The problem with calls for transparency is that Volkswagen has built a culture for decades which has encouraged a lack of transparency. Building a culture of transparency is going to take time. It will be under pressure to overhaul its corporate governance system, but establishing effective oversight is unlikely to be enough. What is needed is effective undersight – giving lower level employees the chance to speak up if something goes wrong again in the future.
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-business-live

This picture best exemplifies VW's tarnished reputation right now:
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Old 5th November 2015, 00:41   #615
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Very true.

Whatever that is not detected, goes undetected and therefore not wrong.
Undetected? Or denial and lying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Dwelling on the point of corporate culture that Thad and Chetan mentioned:
Quote:
The problem with calls for transparency is that Volkswagen has built a culture for decades which has encouraged a lack of transparency. ... ... ...
...Or "I want solutions: I don't want to know how you did it."?

Which means that whole teams, mechanical, software, etc, would be in collusion, but with their bosses not wanting to know.

On the other hand, didn't I read, closer to the beginning of all this, that VWs rulers had a tradition of autocratic micro-management? Interfering in all and everything?

Until recently, I expected that, however huge, this could still be a blip in a great sector of motoring history, Now, we have to face the possibility that this group may be so sick it might not survive.
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