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Old 6th November 2015, 15:34   #646
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Some people thinks ban is not the solution, I am very surprised to hear it. VW has done cheating, very serious in fact. It deserves the punishment, that too very hard punishment. Why I am saying this is because it will make sure that they will not take clients or Government norms for granted and it will also make sure that others will learn a lesson or two here and will not dare to do any kind of cheating. Agree that they make good cars which are beautiful and safe, but that don't give them permission to do such cheating, right? Also I am not saying ban them for life time. Just ban them till they rectify all the defective cars, pay penalty to Indian Government for whatever wrong they have done and undergo some strict tests which will make sure all there cars are safe and not polluting. Isn't it fare deal? Am I wrong here?
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Old 6th November 2015, 15:43   #647
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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... Am I wrong here?
In principle, probably not (as per my previous post). In practice, a ban, whether temporary or permanent, equates to destroying the company in that market.
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Old 6th November 2015, 16:13   #648
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Some people thinks ban is not the solution, I am very surprised to hear it. VW has done cheating, very serious in fact. It deserves the punishment, that too very hard punishment.
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In principle, probably not (as per my previous post). In practice, a ban, whether temporary or permanent, equates to destroying the company in that market.
It's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I will use Satyam as an example: Ramalingu Raju and the auditors were tried and convicted, but the company and - more importantly - the employees came through relatively fine, and with a new parent.

That's the sort of punishment I'd like to see happen to VAG once it is deemed that such a punishment is warranted.

Instead, imagine the consequences if the government had dissolved Satyam as a company, what it would have done to the lives of so many people and how it would have depressed the IT job market.

I know there's rage against the VAG group, and it probably feels a bit cathartic to talk about hammering the company into oblivion. I'm just afraid of the collateral damage to uninvolved individuals.

Last edited by arunphilip : 6th November 2015 at 16:22.
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Old 6th November 2015, 16:59   #649
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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I know there's rage against the VAG group, and it probably feels a bit cathartic to talk about hammering the company into oblivion. I'm just afraid of the collateral damage to uninvolved individuals.
This. There's no two ways that what VW did was wrong, but to talk of banning them is taking things too far.

The ones you want to hurt are the top level executives and the head honchos of the company, and banning the company won't hurt them. They'll simply move elsewhere and make merry.

To ban the company entirely in India would hurt customers that have bought VAG products, it would hurt the shareholders who will pay with reduced share prices for factors beyond market forces and most critically perhaps, it will hurt the workers who will be rendered jobless. What of all these stakeholders in the VAG ecosystem? Are they to be mere collateral damage?

Like Satyam, I'd like to see VAG's top management completely replaced in an effort to instill a new culture, because this all came about because of a deep-seated cultural issue at VAG. The lack of transparency is just a small sign of the cultural rot that seems to have beset them.

The fines they will pay, the cars they will have to recall and the work they will have to pay for out of their pocket will hurt them very hard. But what will hurt them most is the loss of consumer confidence. To ban VAG is to miss the forest for the trees. Doing so won't hurt those sitting high up in their ivory towers. It'll hurt the most powerless of the lot, and that should be unacceptable.
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Old 6th November 2015, 18:34   #650
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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In principle, probably not (as per my previous post). In practice, a ban, whether temporary or permanent, equates to destroying the company in that market.
I personally don't think that ban for some time will destroy the company. They can always do strong comeback with right cars. No body will stop them. Not sure why you think it will destroy the company.

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
It's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I will use Satyam as an example: Ramalingu Raju and the auditors were tried and convicted, but the company and - more importantly - the employees came through relatively fine, and with a new parent.

That's the sort of punishment I'd like to see happen to VAG once it is deemed that such a punishment is warranted.

Instead, imagine the consequences if the government had dissolved Satyam as a company, what it would have done to the lives of so many people and how it would have depressed the IT job market.

I know there's rage against the VAG group, and it probably feels a bit cathartic to talk about hammering the company into oblivion. I'm just afraid of the collateral damage to uninvolved individuals.
Satyam case was totally different, it was only a financial fraud. Here VW cheated the government norms and in effect they were doing something which is harmful to whole environment and our society. If it's not corrected its harmful. Satyam was different case altogether. In there case as well they lost so many clients, many people lost their jobs.

Anyways, if somebody is supporting VW just because they own one and think their resale value of car will drop now or they will not get any service if company is banned, then its really sad. At least I don't expect people of this opinion in this honest forum, that is what I think. Its my personal opinion.

Last edited by aniketi : 6th November 2015 at 18:36.
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Old 6th November 2015, 18:46   #651
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Anyways, if somebody is supporting VW just because they own one and think their resale value of car will drop now or they will not get any service if company is banned, then its really sad. At least I don't expect people of this opinion in this honest forum, that is what I think.
Given that you've quoted me while making the above statement, let me put this out here: I don't own a VAG car. I don't own VAG shares. Neither I, not my near and dear ones, work for VAG or any of their subsidiaries. Neither they nor I will be impacted if VAG folds.

Quoting from my earlier post, I support the people in points 2 and 3 that I've emphasized in bold, and I want to punish the people in point 1. That is the only motivation for my opinion, I have no vested interests.
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  • The company is more than just the board, managers and techies - these are the ones who should be targeted.
  • The company is also blue collar workers, who should not pay the price for the recklessness of management. Do you really want the guy on the line, holding a wrench, to lose his job?
  • The company is also minority shareholders who have no decision-making authority and no representation on the board. They might even be people like our own avdhesh15 or GTO. Should they have their shares devalued when the management misled them? Remember that the VAG stocks are tanking, and this is not due to vagaries of the market, but is due to illegal/criminal activity.

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Old 6th November 2015, 19:30   #652
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Just a hypothetical situation:
If VW is ready to buy back the cars, ready to pay the full purchase value, will every single VW owner will give the car back and happily move to other manufacturers?
I don't think so. If so, we would not be eagerly discussing the Polo 1.8 TSi in other threads.
There is a VW fan base, and most of us think the whole emission topic is actually unnecessary.

Nobody would have bothered in India, if the scam is not initially found out from the USA. If the same has been found out in some South American country, or Middle east, or even in our own country, the matter would have been handled completely differently (probably would have been closed with a happy ending several weeks back).
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Old 6th November 2015, 23:27   #653
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

So here go the measures VW has started taking to regain faith of it's customers.

Volkswagen To Announce “TDI Goodwill Program” Next Week

"Volkswagen of America, in a bid to regain the trust of current diesel owners, will announce a prepaid card campaign on November 9, TTAC has learned.

The program, detailed to dealers Thursday in preparation of its public announcement, is aimed at current owners of affected TDI models regardless of whether they bought their car new or used.

Two prepaid cards will be offered to those TDI owners. The first one will be for $500 and has no restrictions on where it can be used. The second, which may be valued between $500 and $750, will be limited to use at Volkswagen dealerships."


--------------------------

Volkswagen Diesel Emissions Fixes to Begin in US in February

"The fix, which was mentioned to dealers and communicated to dealer staff, will comprise of an ECU flash. The details of the ECU flash itself and the specific vehicles to which it will apply were not provided.

It was reported previously that different generations of the affected EA189 diesel engine could receive varying levels of correction, from ECU flashes to the installation of full urea-fed SCR systems. This ECU flash could be just one of two or three fixes for Volkswagen’s dirty diesels.

Volkswagen has supposedly earmarked $4 billion to fix their diesel cars and public reputation in the U.S., which includes money the automaker will use to fund the “TDI Goodwill Program”, said the source."

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Old 7th November 2015, 02:06   #654
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This is like throwing peanuts. The US customer base would feel like monkeys. I feel this is actually an insult. More like adding salt to injury and would further push the VW image downhill.
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Old 7th November 2015, 06:58   #655
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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This is like throwing peanuts. The US customer base would feel like monkeys. I feel this is actually an insult. More like adding salt to injury and would further push the VW image downhill.
What was it when Ford did the same during the fuel efficiency scandal?

http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...e-c-max-owners



And here is what Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne said few days back on VW dieselgsate:

* Volkswagen will come out stronger after diesel engine scandal

* does not believe diesel is dead; says origin of VW scandal was "governance failure" and not a "technology failure"


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...j6JZ2AH5Lf3.97
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Old 7th November 2015, 12:51   #656
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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Just a hypothetical situation:
If VW is ready to buy back the cars, ready to pay the full purchase value, will every single VW owner will give the car back and happily move to other manufacturers?
I don't know about anyone else, but I would most certainly take my money back if they offered it now. That's an utopian situation though. It's definitely a worrying issue to see, and not just the fact that the cars are emitting more than they should be doing. The issue for me is one of trust. If they can act so callously on such a wide scale, how can you trust those in power to make better, more honest decisions going forward? This is as much a technological crisis as it one of trust.
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Old 7th November 2015, 14:30   #657
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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The issue for me is one of trust. If they can act so callously on such a wide scale, how can you trust those in power to make better, more honest decisions going forward? This is as much a technological crisis as it one of trust.
Infallible logic of yours and I share the same sentiments. A product should be something more than just creation of profits, the company should make it out of concern for the reputation in the long run. That concern should be so much that they should not tolerate, leave alone encourage aspects which would put the products in jeopardy when it comes to governmental norms & customer perception.

That is when, trust would truly be built and loyalty would be established with the brand. In the end people want an easy ownership experience and an assurance of a standard in return for the price paid, whether premium or not. As someone familiar with production industry in general, I can confirm that manufacturing is the easiest yet most tricky industry to work in - it all depends on materials sourced. The tricky part is only the human aspect, i.e deciding profit margin vs quality as both are diametrically opposed.. quality goes up & price goes up, demand goes down & profits are lower. In industries where declaring VOC (volatile organic-compounds) is necessary both at the production end and/or implementation end at the clients premises I've seen those norms relaxed with superficial assurances many times even though VOC emission is upto 20 times more than the pre-set standards of Gold & Platinum. There has to come a time ultimately that profits & sales take lesser precedence to environmental compliance. I hope as far as motor-vehicles go, that this scandal once and for all sets them straight.

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Old 10th November 2015, 11:59   #658
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Default US: VW offers 2.0 TDI customers $1,000 worth Goodwill Package

In an attempt to take corrective steps and heal its bruised reputation, Volkswagen is offering customers of their defaulting diesel vehicles with a $1,000 benefit.

Known as the Volkswagen 2.0L TDI Customer Goodwill Package, this includes registered owners or lessees of vehicles affected by the 2.0L TDI emissions scandal. As part of a compensation, customers will receive a $500 prepaid Visa loyalty card + $500 Volkswagen Dealership Card which can be used to purchase consumables / parts or even a new car at existing VW dealerships. In addition to these, 24-hour roadside assistance is also offered to these customers for a period of 3 years.

Link to news article

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Old 10th November 2015, 12:23   #659
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

What the hell? This relief package isn't helping anybody. What a stupid move by VW!
The owners aren't the only ones who have been affected. There cars have harmed the health of millions.

What they need right now is to fix the hundreds and thousands of cars that are plying on roads world over and spewing deadly gases.
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Old 10th November 2015, 12:56   #660
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

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What the hell? This relief package isn't helping anybody. What a stupid move by VW!
The owners aren't the only ones who have been affected. There cars have harmed the health of millions.

What they need right now is to fix the hundreds and thousands of cars that are plying on roads world over and spewing deadly gases.
This is just a good will move by VW. All affected customers should accept it as
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Customers who are accepting this Goodwill Package are not required to waive their rights or release their claims against VW nor will they forfeit their right to any potential future compensation
. They have nothing to lose.
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