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Old 24th November 2015, 15:03   #706
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Is Renault next on the emission scandal?

Renault Espace model found with excess emissions.

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German environmental lobby group DUH said on Tuesday that nitrogen oxide emissions of Renault's 1.6 dCi Espace had been found to be up to 25 times higher than the current Euro-6 limit, citing tests carried out by the University of Applied Sciences in Bern, Switzerland.
Quote:
DUH said excess emission levels for the Renault Espace diesel vehicle were detected under new European testing cycles (NEFZ) in five separate tests with a warm engine.
http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...ities/49906210

Last edited by volkman10 : 24th November 2015 at 15:05.
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Old 24th November 2015, 19:50   #707
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

On Financial Times, a recent news article has appeared titled "VW admits second illegal device in 85,000 Audi engines"

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ee578522-9...8769cecab.html


Audi has conceded that the engines in a further 85,000 cars from the Volkswagen group contained an illegal defeat device, raising questions of how systematic the cheating was at the German carmaker.
The luxury car brand of the VW group said it estimated that correcting the engine management software used in Audi, VW and Porsche models would cost in the mid-double-digit millions of euros. It admitted that the software was in all three-litre V6 diesel engines manufactured by Audi and sold from 2009 until this year.
...


Audi sent its chief executive and engineers to meet the US Environmental Protection Agency last week. Late on Monday night, it sent out a statement saying that it had failed to disclose three auxiliary emissions control devices (AECDs) to regulators. Without disclosure and subsequent approval from regulators, AECDs are not legal.
Audi added: “One of them is regarded as a defeat device according to applicable US law. Specifically, this is the software for the temperature conditioning of the exhaust-gas cleaning system.”
The admission causes significant embarrassment to VW, which appeared set for a confrontation with the EPA over the issue.

...
Audi said on Monday that it would extend the voluntary sales stop of all models “until further notice”. The models include Audi’s A6, A7, A8, Q5 and Q7, and the VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne sport-utility vehicles.
It added that it would update the software and the documentation while focusing on “finding quick, uncomplicated and customer-friendly solutions”.

Courtesy: FT Times.

Another link on same news: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/vo...lgate-details/
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Old 24th November 2015, 21:17   #708
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen has "no plans" to compensate customers in Europe whose diesel cars were rigged to cheat emissions tests.

VW has set aside £4.8bn to cover recall costs, but had not until now said there would be no compensation.

VW has been compensating drivers in the US, arguing that the market circumstances were different.

VW drivers in the UK say the emissions scandal has hit the re-sale value of their cars, with one telling the BBC's You & Yours programme he is "dismayed".

It was discovered in the US that the German carmaker's diesel cars had so-called "defeat devices" that could cheat laboratory emissions tests.
Since then, VW has announced that millions of cars are being recalled, and regulators across the world have begun investigations.

In a statement to Radio 4's You & Yours, VW said it was committed to putting right any cars affected, but that the company was "not planning any further financial payouts".

This is despite VW customers in the US being promised $500 (£330) and a further $500 in credit vouchers.

More than one million UK cars are thought to be fitted with the computer "cheat chips", which reduced levels of NOx emissions during testing.
The chair of the UK's Transport Select Committee, Louise Ellman, told You & Yours that VW should carefully consider its next step.
"I think that VW are compounding their misdemeanours. I think they think they can get away with it, but that simply will not happen," she said.
'Totally unfair'

VW is recalling about 11 million cars worldwide, with 8.5 million of them in Europe. In the US, 482,000 diesel cars are thought to have been fitted with the "cheat" technology.

The rigged vehicles' engines actually emitted nitrogen oxide pollutants up to 40 times above what is allowed in the US

In its statement, VW said: "We are putting together an individual package of measures for each market designed to achieve high customer satisfaction in what is currently an unsatisfactory situation for customers."

But UK customers of the German manufacturer hoping for a payout will be left frustrated.

Chris Hoyland, the owner of a VW Tiguan 2L diesel, said the value of his car had dropped from £20,600 to £17,500 since the emissions scandal broke.
"I had only driven 1,000 miles during that period so I'm dismayed my vehicle had depreciated so much. I think to treat European and UK drivers differently from those in America is just totally unfair."

VW has suggested to the BBC that it is offering US customers compensation because the US is seen as a key market that they would like to develop.
The thinking is that US consumers bought a VW car specifically advertised as a "clean diesel". They were investing in a niche technology where diesel fuel costs more than petrol, and so financial compensation would be appropriate.
But Ms Ellman is not convinced. "The secretary of state has the power impose unlimited penalties," she said. "I think they should take a realistic view and not try and discriminate on how they treat customers in the States and how they do here."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34899937
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Old 25th November 2015, 07:11   #709
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I think VW can get away with less financial damage in the UK/EU just because Germany pulls a lot of weight there and VW survival /prosperity is of strategic importance to Germany.

In the US they can't pull as much weight politically /with regulators /judiciary etc.

The governments will get richer by way of fines, consumers will twiddle their thumbs.
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Old 25th November 2015, 21:01   #710
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen Reveals EA 189 Fixes: Flow Straightener for 1.6 TDI, New Software for 2.0 TDI. The final technical solution for the 1.2-liter engines will be presented at the end of the month.

Volkswagen has released a full press statement accompanied by a short YouTube video that details the repairs to be made to the EA 189 diesel engines affected by the emissions scandal.



For the 1.6-liter diesel engine, engineers devised something called a flow straightener. It looks like a piece of pipe. Volkswagen says this cheap and simple hardware change improves the flow of air and somehow solves the dieselgate thing.

VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-volkswagenrevealsea189fixesflowstraightenerfor16tdiandnewsoftware20tdivideo102309_1.jpg
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So how does it work? Well, there is a mesh that calms the swirled air flow in front of the air mass sensor and will thus decisively improve the measuring accuracy of the air mass sensor. This steady flow of air is a very important parameter for the engine management system and helps create an optimum combustion process. Also, a software update will be performed on this engine
Quote:
As for the 2.0-liter TDI, things are even easier, as the only thing needed is a software update. In both cases, the time needed for the implementation of the technical measures is expected to be less than one hour.
Volkswagen has set itself an ambitious goal to fix the emissions problems without impacting fuel consumption or performance.
Quote:
If the fixes are approved by the German Federal Motor Transport Authority, Volkswagen will begin the recalls in January 2016 and stretch them out over the entire year.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/vo...i-102309.html#

Last edited by volkman10 : 25th November 2015 at 21:08.
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Old 26th November 2015, 18:06   #711
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

South Korea orders recall of 125,522 Volkswagen vehicles

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Cars to be recalled are Euro 5 engine vehicles with 2,000cc and 1,600cc diesel 'EA189' engines, mainly sold in South Korea between 2008 and 2015, including the popular Tiguan model, the ministry said in a statement.

South Korea on Thursday said its own testing showed that Volkswagen AG intentionally manipulated a diesel emissions device in vehicles with an older engine, and ordered the recall of 125,522 cars.

South Korea is the first country after the United States to announce measures based on its own testing to address the diesel emissions scandal that has engulfed Europe's biggest auto manufacturer.
Source & Link: http://www.rediff.com/business/repor...s/20151126.htm

Last edited by rajeev k : 26th November 2015 at 18:07.
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Old 27th November 2015, 08:58   #712
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

I cannot challenge the engineering skills, but doubt if just the software update will resolve the issue, as software update can only revise the operational parameters, but if the performance is not impacted, how its the emission going to change so drastically that something that was 20-30x in excess of the prescribed norms will start falling within limit.

I am doubtful, yet would be happy if proven wrong.

More so if the solutions existed, they should have been applied during engine updates / revisions and at the very minimum the software update should be carried out at the regular service interval / soft product recall.
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Old 27th November 2015, 09:10   #713
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Audi to revise emissions control software in U.S. vehicles with 3.0-liter engines.

The 3.0-liter diesel engine was developed by Audi and used in diesel variants of the A6, A7, A8, Q5 and Q7 starting in the 2009 model year. The engine was also used in the VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne SUVs since model year 2013

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The plan indicates that the 85,000 or more Audi, Porsche and VW vehicles powered by 3.0-liter diesels can be made compliant with a software alone
The cheat software
Quote:
The software recognizes when vehicles are undergoing a U.S. emissions test and in turn activate a “temperature conditioning” mode that turns on pollution-control equipment, limiting nitrogen oxide emissions to permissible levels. In real-world driving, the controls are inactive, making the vehicles pollute far more than they were certified to be
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...icles-with-3-0

Last edited by volkman10 : 27th November 2015 at 09:14.
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Old 27th November 2015, 09:31   #714
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Volkswagen's Audi suspends two engineers in emissions probe

Volkswagen's luxury flagship Audi has suspended two engineers after its larger diesel engines were found evading emissions limits in the United States, Audi CEO Rupert Stadler said in a newspaper interview published on Thursday.

Quote:
Volkswagen (VW) and Audi notified US authorities last Thursday that about 85,000 vehicles with 3.0 litre V6 diesel engines were fitted with emissions-control equipment that was not disclosed to US regulators.

The news widened a scandal at parent VW which has led to the ouster of its long-time chief executive and wiped more than 20 billion euros ($21 billion) off the group's market value.

Audi is now investigating whether employees in technical development and other departments deliberately manipulated emission-control devices and has suspended two engineers, Stadler said in an interview with the Donaukurier regional newspaper, without giving any further details.

Asked by Donaukurier about potential personal consequences, the 52-year-old Stadler said: "What's at stake now is (to find out) the truth and I will not rest until everything is on the table."
SOURCE: http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...probe/49936553
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Old 27th November 2015, 12:10   #715
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Volkswagen Reveals EA 189 Fixes: Flow Straightener for 1.6 TDI, New Software for 2.0 TDI. The final technical solution for the 1.2-liter engines will be presented at the end of the month.


For the 1.6-liter diesel engine, engineers devised something called a flow straightener. It looks like a piece of pipe. Volkswagen says this cheap and simple hardware change improves the flow of air and somehow solves the dieselgate thing.
How is a flow straightener going to solve the emission problem? They suggest that doing this helps the engine more accurately measure the airflow - there by suggesting that the lack of accuracy was the problem.

I think that the subtly put software update piece has more to it than meets the eye. There are no details shared on what the update is all about.

It is said that VW tried to confuse the US agencies with complicated engineering explanations. Seems like they are trying to do the same here.

They should include a before and after dyno test to assure customers that the performance has not been impacted.

Drive on,
Shibu.

Last edited by shibujp : 27th November 2015 at 12:12.
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Old 27th November 2015, 12:26   #716
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Originally Posted by shibujp View Post

How is a flow straightener going to solve the emission problem? They suggest that doing this helps the engine more accurately measure the airflow - there by suggesting that the lack of accuracy was the problem.
Wow!! Is this for real!! Did they actually claim that adding a pipe can decrease 40 times more emissions!! In all my years in emission development I have never seen anything more ridiculous.
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Old 27th November 2015, 13:24   #717
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

A “flow transformer” will be fitted directly in front of the air mass sensor on the 1.6-litre EA 189 engine. This is a mesh that calms the swirled air flow in front of the air mass sensor and will thus decisively improve the measuring accuracy of the air mass sensor. The air mass sensor determines the current air mass throughput, which is a very important parameter for the engine management for an optimum combustion process. In addition, a software update will be performed on this engine. The time needed for the implementation of the technical measures is expected to be less than one hour.
Source: http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/...ahmen_KBA.html
VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test-image.jpg

I suppose that the solution has more to do with the software change than the inclusion of any magic pipes
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Old 27th November 2015, 15:05   #718
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

Quite amazing. I guess VW will have to pull a lot of strings to implement this and get away.

Because, lets think logical. They say there will be no compromise on Power and Efficiency. If there was such a simple solution, they would have never risked the Cheat device in the first place.
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Old 27th November 2015, 15:57   #719
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Originally Posted by sukarsan View Post
Wow!! Is this for real!! Did they actually claim that adding a pipe can decrease 40 times more emissions!! In all my years in emission development I have never seen anything more ridiculous.
I agree - it is surprising.

At the same time, let us not forget that it is very easy for the authorities to cross-verify this claim once implemented. A simple emission test on a 4 wheel-dyno will confirm this.

Given this scenario, I personally think VAG guys are not fools to announce something without proper research. VAG may have cheated, but I have never doubted there technological expertise.

Right. They could have come up with this solution much earlier, which would have saved them a lot of embarrassment. But, as we know, adversity itself, can help discover a few things!
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Old 27th November 2015, 17:26   #720
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Default Re: VAG's emission fraud - VW cheats in emission test

If this "flow transformer" is so good then I would like to see it installed on every car from every manufacturer! Every engine will benefit from "measuring the correct mass air"

Last edited by freedom : 27th November 2015 at 17:27.
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